It just never got that big. If goyf was standard legal right now, it wouldn't make too much of an impact whatsoever. If it promoted green decks, people would just play SoFaF or more islands (see: vapor snag, mana leak)

Goyf was primarily made for eternal formats, imo.

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Originally posted by Link139232:
I could get behind Goyf in standard. It really wasn't played that heavily when he was in cycle. The only decks that ran him were GB Elves and RG Big Ramp(or snow ramp, into the north ramp, whatever.) and those decks all got crushed by Red Deck Wins and Faeries (see: Terror).

It just never got that big. If goyf was standard legal right now, it wouldn't make too much of an impact whatsoever. If it promoted green decks, people would just play SoFaF or more islands (see: vapor snag, mana leak)

Goyf was primarily made for eternal formats, imo.

Oh and PS - Goyf was played was in zero block decks. Saito was playing red green at pro tour Yokohama and didn't have goyfs (iirc) But the top 3 were all playing UB Control/mystical teachings.

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I did a quick search on the number of appearances goyf made in the top 8 when it was standard legal, and the result was 368 decks.

That is a pretty respectable number.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Sorry, but that kind of reasoning is just idiotic. It's verifiable that existing decks like RUG tempo and Maverick have gone from using goyfs to using scavenging ooze, mainly because ooze tends to beat goyf in a head-to-head comparison against most existing deck archetypes. It's not even really an argument that that meta has changed, though that's certainly a factor. Ooze is simply a better option against most strategies, namely reanimator, tempo, and aggro.

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Don't drink the Zeckk Kool-aid, brother. "Legacy/Vintage?"...please. When are you playing Ooze in Vintage?

I can believe why Goyf is expensive.

Goyf is the best blue creature. Explain to me how Ooze comes even close to being the best blue creature? When you can do that, you can say that Ooze is better.

1. RUG-tempo HAS NOT switched over to using Ooze.
2. Ooze is not better against Combo or Control or even Aggro. I'd rather have Goyf on my side against any non-KotR aggro deck than Ooze.

Good luck playing an Ooze turn 2 and racing Combo or blocking against Goblins (or anything else for that matter).

(If you are running a heavy Green deck) Ooze is better against KotR and Reanimator (if they don't Griselbrand you turn 2 first).

Goyf is more expensive than Ooze because it's better and used in more places.

Goyf is expensive because.....just look at the results. There was a long stretch of constructed Pro Tours where 4-of Tarmogoyf won each time. If I remember correctly, from Gindy-Hollywood and lasted until LSV-Berlin.

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Originally posted by calvin240sx:
^^^^
well put by what seems to be and experienced legacy/vintage player. maybe a bit harsh on the tone tho.

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quote:

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Originally posted by coasterdude84:
No, Stoneforge and Bob are the best White and Black creatures.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JayC:
Does stone forge ever reach a $20 or something value in the future? Sorry if too off topic.

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Give it 10 years or so any maybe, Event Decks may hold some....

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Originally posted by choco man:
Don't drink the Zeckk Kool-aid, brother. "Legacy/Vintage?"...please. When are you playing Ooze in Vintage?

I can believe why Goyf is expensive.

Goyf is the best blue creature. Explain to me how Ooze comes even close to being the best blue creature? When you can do that, you can say that Ooze is better.

1. RUG-tempo HAS NOT switched over to using Ooze.
2. Ooze is not better against Combo or Control or even Aggro. I'd rather have Goyf on my side against any non-KotR aggro deck than Ooze.

Good luck playing an Ooze turn 2 and racing Combo or blocking against Goblins (or anything else for that matter).

(If you are running a heavy Green deck) Ooze is better against KotR and Reanimator (if they don't Griselbrand you turn 2 first).

Goyf is more expensive than Ooze because it's better and used in more places.

Goyf is expensive because.....just look at the results. There was a long stretch of constructed Pro Tours where 4-of Tarmogoyf won each time. If I remember correctly, from Gindy-Hollywood and lasted until LSV-Berlin.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by calvin240sx:
^^^^
well put by what seems to be and experienced legacy/vintage player. maybe a bit harsh on the tone tho.

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What a sad post...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&start_date=2012-06-17&end_date=2012-06-17&event_ID=20&city=Indianapolis

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=3&start_date=2012-06-03&end_date=2012-06-10&city=worcester&start_num=0&numpage=25

Those are the last 2 SCG Open series decklists for top legacy decks. Goyf is essentially gone from Maverick, and currently occupies 1-2 slots in RUG Delver's 75 as a means to break a stalemated board state. Normally, I wouldn't have to list the reasons Ooze is taking over goyf slots, but here's just a few for the kids riding the short bus.

-Turns off threshold against mongoose.
-Protects your own deck against extraction effects, and often lets you continue to get value in a tempo battle.
-Gives you the upper hand when both sides control goyf, since you essentially determine the P/T of each goyf in play.
-Basic grave hate.
-Better card against RDW than goyf, especially with vexing devil making it's way into legacy burn.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
What a sad post...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase /deckshow.php?&start_date=2012-06-17&end_date=2012-06-17&event_ID=20&city=Indianapolis

=3&start_date=2012-06-03&end_date=2012-06-10&city=worcester&start_num=0&numpage=25]http://sales.starcitygames.co m/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=3&start_date=2012-06-03&end_date=2012-06-10&city=worcester&start_num=0&numpage=25

Those are the last 2 SCG Open series decklists for top legacy decks. Goyf is essentially gone from Maverick, and currently occupies 1-2 slots in RUG Delver's 75 as a means to break a stalemated board state. Normally, I wouldn't have to list the reasons Ooze is taking over goyf slots, but here's just a few for the kids riding the short bus.

-Turns off threshold against mongoose.
-Protects your own deck against extraction effects, and often lets you continue to get value in a tempo battle.
-Gives you the upper hand when both sides control goyf, since you essentially determine the P/T of each goyf in play.
-Basic grave hate.
-Better card against RDW than goyf, especially with vexing devil making it's way into legacy burn.

The bottom line is that there's 1 deck in the legacy gauntlet that prefers goyf over ooze, while the rest of them have the mana base to make better use of goyf. If RUG delver wasnt so limited on green sources, you bet your ass we would be seeing more of them in the tempo decklists.

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Originally posted by Link139232:

Oh and PS - Goyf was played was in zero block decks.

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More like zero block decks weren't playing Goyf. How do you think that card went from bulk to $35 in two weeks? Block Constructed

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Originally posted by JayC:
Does stone forge ever reach a $20 or something value in the future? Sorry if too off topic.

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Depends entirely on the legacy Meta, and whether SFM ever sees modern play. I could see SFM getting unbanned in modern after next year if the current crop of top decks remains on top. Beyond that, SFM isn't seeing a reprint in a standard set for a very long time, but I could see a judge foil or a premium reprint sometime in the future.