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Author
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Topic: Unlimited black bordered Duals alter
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NewAddictions
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 02:52 PM
        
How much value does an Unlimited dual lose when someone alters the white borders to black borders considering it is done really well without any visible brush strokes?Also NM alters compared to HP alters, thanks in advance! edit: some links here.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s55/martinph84/IMG_6013_zps82bbe338.jpg http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s55/martinph84/IMG_0656_zps07e9c0f9.jpg http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s55/martinph84/IMG_6121_zpse16dc47d.jpg
[Edited 2 times, lastly by NewAddictions on July 10, 2013]
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jbark
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 05:43 PM
Those aren't duals?
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coolio
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 05:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NewAddictions:
How much value does an Unlimited dual lose when someone alters the white borders to black borders considering it is done really well without any visible brush strokes?
except, its really easy to tell it's not real beta © __________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher HitchensReligion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
-Seneca the Younger
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NewAddictions
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 06:00 PM
I'm not trying to pull them off as real beta, I just want black bordered english duals and can't dish out for beta atm.I'm just wondering how much of a loss I'm taking by doing this to unlimited duals to see if it's worth it. Not planning on reselling but just in case I have to I would like to know how much I'm losing. I only did basics to get practice, I don't have any duals done.
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stab107
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 06:27 PM
I would be very reticent to call that an alter, as nothing has been changed save for the border. They would not be considered tournament legal and almost no one in the market would want them. I expect a lot of traders would consider them damaged, much like inked cards.
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NewAddictions
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 06:39 PM
so are we talking about %50 off price tag?and I'm pretty sure these would tournament legal since they allow fully altered cards to be used right?
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thror
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 06:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NewAddictions:
so are we talking about %50 off price tag?and I'm pretty sure these would tournament legal since they allow fully altered cards to be used right?
there is no rule that says they would be automatically illegal. you would have to clear them with the head judge for each tourney you want to use them in. but pretty much everyone here is going to tell you to just NOT do this. just a bad idea. __________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep
<KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep
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spike777
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 06:50 PM
They're tournament legal but I would never ever do that- and I don't like white borders. I do, however, fully-blackborder all non-dual land cards and then I see a 'beauty' to having the fetchland targets be white bordered, making fetching easier. You're looking at values among the lowest prices for still-playable dual lands- something like 60% of value, maybe higher if you look around (65-70%). Defacing cards to make them 'look better' is almost never worth it, especially old, expensive cards. It will only be worth it on more common cards with very good alters.
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NewAddictions
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 07:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
there is no rule that says they would be automatically illegal. you would have to clear them with the head judge for each tourney you want to use them in. but pretty much everyone here is going to tell you to just NOT do this. just a bad idea.
lol yea I'm already getting the no-go at my local shops, just wanted to know how much I would be losing. but ok thanks guys for the answers!
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flam flawless
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 07:06 PM
The money you'd lose by doing this would be IMO about every 5 duals you could pony up for a played beta one. We did it years ago & now wish we never did. If you really wanna altered duals, maybe trade your UNL ones for REV ones & send the REV ones to someone (with the difference in value from the trade) & have them done.
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JayC
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 08:01 PM
"The SECOND worst idea since Greedo shooting first."
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coasterdude84
Member
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posted July 10, 2013 09:19 PM
It's not worth the hit you'll take. If it matters that much, pony up for Beta.
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lordofthepit23
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 01:08 AM
I'd probably buy them at lower than Revised duals if I were in the market. I would value them higher than a normal alter or a signed cards, but I absolutely hate those and am in the minority.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by lordofthepit23 on July 11, 2013]
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SolonJhee
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 04:46 AM
On a side-bar, am I missing something? Why in the world would these be illegal in a tournament? It's exactly the same thing as extending the art on a card. He isn't covering the name or making the art indistinguishable.
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spike777
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 05:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SolonJhee:
On a side-bar, am I missing something? Why in the world would these be illegal in a tournament? It's exactly the same thing as extending the art on a card. He isn't covering the name or making the art indistinguishable.
All alters must get ok'd by the head judge at all tournaments. For example, they could be marked: A guy at the SCG legacy open last weekend had a doomsday deck. All 4 doomsdays were altered, with orange paint going to the edges. Normally, this is fine in sleeves, as most sleeves cover the end and have enough room to close. However, this guy was double sleeving and had navy sleeves. The inner perfect fit was thick enough to not allow the outer sleeve to close at the end, making it super easy to pick out the orange-ends when looking at the stacked deck. It may be that, by blackening the edges, their use in light-colored double-sleeved decks (or light colored sleeves that simply dont have enough sleeve to close at the end) may make it possible to pick out the altered duals by looking at the stacked deck, thus marking your deck.
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SolonJhee
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 06:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spike777:
All alters must get ok'd by the head judge at all tournaments. For example, they could be marked:A guy at the SCG legacy open last weekend had a doomsday deck. All 4 doomsdays were altered, with orange paint going to the edges. Normally, this is fine in sleeves, as most sleeves cover the end and have enough room to close. However, this guy was double sleeving and had navy sleeves. The inner perfect fit was thick enough to not allow the outer sleeve to close at the end, making it super easy to pick out the orange-ends when looking at the stacked deck. It may be that, by blackening the edges, their use in light-colored double-sleeved decks (or light colored sleeves that simply dont have enough sleeve to close at the end) may make it possible to pick out the altered duals by looking at the stacked deck, thus marking your deck.
Fair explanation, thanks.
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yoriagami
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 07:30 AM
I, for one, picked up a BB Imperial Seal once at about 70% of fair value at the time, and would do so again today. Now, the Seal is a special case as no genuine BB version exists, whereas for duals you have the options (cost notwithstanding) of A/B/FBB. Nevertheless, should you alter those duals with the same quality as you did the island, I would consider buying them at up to 70% of value, and would almost certainly trade for them at a similar (say 75 - 85%) devaluation. When I bought the Imperial Seal, I actually looked around (briefly) to see who might do the alter on an English one. Pity I didn't catch you then.  More to the point, if you do alter them, might as well alter VG/F copies instead of NM ones: the overall loss of value would not stack I think, so in effect you'd lose less by the alter itself.
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hammr7
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 08:37 AM
Adding black borders is inking them. The value, as noted above, will be lower than that of any legal un-inked card. So find the lowest price you can for a minimally playable revised card and subtract 10%. The Unlimited art will result in an appearance closer to Beta, but since Unlimited has a premium price over Revised, you will lose more value. If you decide to do it, best to find worn Unlimited duals.
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 09:33 AM
Stupid idea no idea if you can make this work...but without marking your sleeves, could you make the overlap the white border of your dual with black ink. Once again you would need to show the sleeves aren't marked (so...while they will have marks on the front of the sleeve perhaps it will be unnoticeable from the back). Just ask a judge to try to fish out your duals, and if they can't I would think that shows it's not marked. Edit:
Why not mark every sleeve the exact same with a black rectangle? Now every card sleeved would look black bordered.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by oneofchaos on July 11, 2013]
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wayne
Member
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posted July 11, 2013 11:53 AM
Value probably drops to that of duals in Poor condition, which is quite a bit.
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