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Author Topic:   The Post For Stuff You Just Want To Tell People...the 100th!
Blastoderm55
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posted January 14, 2004 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blastoderm55   Click Here to Email Blastoderm55     
You couldn't let me have my moment, Han. TheGame at least already started one of them. I'd never even tried. A plague on both your houses!!!

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MasterWolf
Member
posted January 14, 2004 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MasterWolf   Click Here to Email MasterWolf     
Thanx for the stats! I thought I had only started 1...

However, I must defend myself in saying that my closed PFS were not closed for blatent rule disobeying. I was never smacked for them, as it was just usually a misunderstanding or mistake by me or the mod.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by MasterWolf on January 14, 2004]


Token
Member
posted January 14, 2004 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Token   Click Here to Email Token     
quote:
Originally posted by potm:
What the hell is with this PfS bashing all of a sudden? Like as if ANYTHING must have a meaning suddenly, please crawl back in your cave of Hypocrisy.


I don't expect to find meaning in this thread. I'm just commenting that this one is boring so far, since most of the posts are about it being #100. Since this is the Post For Stuff, I can post that here.


quote:
Originally posted by Erl00:
Is there any PsF number that is remembered for anything interesting?

Blastoderm55 and Han covered it nicely.



Mr. Poopy Head
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posted January 14, 2004 12:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr. Poopy Head   Click Here to Email Mr. Poopy Head     
It's supposed to snow here tonight. Hopefully it does so I don't have to go to school tomorrow.

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Shadow88
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posted January 14, 2004 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shadow88   Click Here to Email Shadow88     
what, I only had 3-4? You big trolls

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nderdog
Moderator
posted January 14, 2004 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog   Click Here to Email nderdog     
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow88:
what, I only had 3-4? You big trolls


I only got one, and that was a case of right place, right time.

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Participant in 09:36 PM!


Shadow88
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posted January 14, 2004 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Shadow88   Click Here to Email Shadow88     
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
I only got one, and that was a case of right place, right time.


Well yeah, I don't try to get them either. I've let some of them go just so people don't think I'm too much of a troll.

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PlasteredDragon
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posted January 14, 2004 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlasteredDragon   Click Here to Email PlasteredDragon     
A recent study done on prime tree "generativity" on coefficients (c) and offsets (o) such that o = c^e-1 where e is some integer power from 2 to 24, has turned out some interesting results (for all primes less than 100,000).

It turns out that o=3^12-1 is *not* the most generative. I was mistaken in my original analysis. In fact there are THREE c & o pairs that are more generative than o=3^12-1. They are:

c=2 o=2^12-1=4095 G = 156
c=4 o=4^6-1=4095 G = 46
c=2 o=2^8-1=255 G = 24

G = number of prime trees generated for all primes<L that meet or beat the minimum requirements (depth>=10, population>=18). L = upper limit on primes imposed for test, in this case 100,000.

For the record c=3 o=3^12-1=531440 has a G of 12.

Since 2p+/-4095 has a G which is 13 times that of 3p+/-531440, it stands to reason that 2p+/-4095 is an even better place to look for record breaking trees. I have currently tested all primes up to 129,414,569 for 2p+/-4095 and wouldn't you know? I've already found a few trees of depth 16, and a couple more of depth 17. This beats my previous record. The first tree of depth 17 is 2p+/-4095 at 3821:

code:

2p+/-4095 at 3821. Depth: 17. Population: 21.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| [3821]
| - = [3547]
| - = [2999]
| + = [10093]
| - = [16091]
| . - = [28087]
| . + = [36277]
| . + = [76649]
| . + = [157393]
| . + = [318881]
| . - = [633667]
| . - = [1263239]
| . . + = [2530573]
| . . - = [5057051]
| . . - = [10110007]
| . . + = [10118197]
| . . - = [20232299]
| . . + = [40468693]
| . . + = [80941481]
| . + = [1271429]
| + = [24281]
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that a number of trees of depth 16 and 17 have popped out relatively easily makes 2p+/-4095 a good place to search for trees of greater depth in my push to beat the recordholder arithmetic progression prime chain length of 22. So I am off testing all primes up to 1 billion to see what comes about. I may push beyond 1 billion if it looks promising. 3p+/-531440 was pushed to 1,580,100,000 (about 1.6 billion), I'll make final stats on that push once I finish studying the results.

I've solved a serious shortcoming in Maple (the tool I use to write and run the code that does the analysis). Through creative use of DOS batch files the computation now runs much faster and more reliably, and I can easily rip through 200 million prime trees in a 12 hour period.

I'm also planning on redoing the "generativity" test, but this time for primes *between* 100,000 and 200,000. It has been suggested that some formulae may perform better at larger starting primes. My experience has been they all perform WORSE at larger starting primes, but I am happy to call that a hypothesis and test it.

I'd also like to get back to more challenging scenarios where o<c. Some of the common ones are o=1, o=c-1, o=trunc(c/2)-1, o=trunc(c*.25)-1, o=trunc(c*.75)-1, o=trunc(c/3)-1, o=trunc(2*c/3)-1, o=trunc(sqrt(c)-1), and so forth. To date the deepest tree found where o<c had a depth of 13, this was 50p+/-27 at 1,879 (o=c/2+2). After the second generativity test, I'll probably code up a third G test where the scenarios listed above are checked out. This will be interesting because then I can possibly confirm that G for o>c is greater than G for o<c.

Oh BTW... I claim page 3 of PFS#100 for ME! Wheeeee! That was fun.

EDIT: I can count... really.

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My Baby


[Edited 1 times, lastly by PlasteredDragon on January 14, 2004]


nderdog
Moderator
posted January 14, 2004 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog   Click Here to Email nderdog     
Okay...party's over...nothing to see here. 9:36 was all part of your imagination...

__________________
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UNDERDOG is here! :)

Bad Guys Fear The UNDERDOG - Flavor_of_the_Weak

Participant in 09:36 PM!


Blastoderm55
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blastoderm55   Click Here to Email Blastoderm55     
They should at least archive threads like that.

__________________
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inca911
Administrator
posted January 14, 2004 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for inca911   Click Here to Email inca911     
There's nothing to see here....

These aren't the droids you're looking for....

--9:36PM

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Lord Titi
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posted January 14, 2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lord Titi   Click Here to Email Lord Titi     
im tiiiired

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^^

no way!


GottaLoveElves
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posted January 14, 2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GottaLoveElves   Click Here to Email GottaLoveElves     

Fun's over boys.
I did, however, save everything up to potm's last reply on page 10 to my computer.

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Erl00
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Erl00   Click Here to Email Erl00     
quote:
Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
A recent study done on prime tree "generativity" on coefficients (c) and offsets (o) such that o = c^e-1 where e is some integer power from 2 to 24, has turned out some interesting results (for all primes less than 100,000).

It turns out that o=3^12-1 is *not* the most generative. I was mistaken in my original analysis. In fact there are THREE c & o pairs that are more generative than o=3^12-1. They are:

c=2 o=2^12-1=4095 G = 156
c=4 o=4^6-1=4095 G = 46
c=2 o=2^8-1=255 G = 24

G = number of prime trees generated for all primes<L that meet or beat the minimum requirements (depth>=10, population>=18). L = upper limit on primes imposed for test, in this case 100,000.

For the record c=3 o=3^12-1=531440 has a G of 12.

Since 2p+/-4095 has a G which is 13 times that of 3p+/-531440, it stands to reason that 2p+/-4095 is an even better place to look for record breaking trees. I have currently tested all primes up to 129,414,569 for 2p+/-4095 and wouldn't you know? I've already found a few trees of depth 16, and a couple more of depth 17. This beats my previous record. The first tree of depth 17 is 2p+/-4095 at 3821:

code:

2p+/-4095 at 3821. Depth: 17. Population: 21.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| [3821]
| - = [3547]
| - = [2999]
| + = [10093]
| - = [16091]
| . - = [28087]
| . + = [36277]
| . + = [76649]
| . + = [157393]
| . + = [318881]
| . - = [633667]
| . - = [1263239]
| . . + = [2530573]
| . . - = [5057051]
| . . - = [10110007]
| . . + = [10118197]
| . . - = [20232299]
| . . + = [40468693]
| . . + = [80941481]
| . + = [1271429]
| + = [24281]
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact that a number of trees of depth 16 and 17 have popped out relatively easily makes 2p+/-4095 a good place to search for trees of greater depth in my push to beat the recordholder arithmetic progression prime chain length of 22. So I am off testing all primes up to 1 billion to see what comes about. I may push beyond 1 billion if it looks promising. 3p+/-531440 was pushed to 1,580,100,000 (about 1.6 billion), I'll make final stats on that push once I finish studying the results.

I've solved a serious shortcoming in Maple (the tool I use to write and run the code that does the analysis). Through creative use of DOS batch files the computation now runs much faster and more reliably, and I can easily rip through 200 million prime trees in a 12 hour period.

I'm also planning on redoing the "generativity" test, but this time for primes *between* 100,000 and 200,000. It has been suggested that some formulae may perform better at larger starting primes. My experience has been they all perform WORSE at larger starting primes, but I am happy to call that a hypothesis and test it.

I'd also like to get back to more challenging scenarios where o<c. Some of the common ones are o=1, o=c-1, o=trunc(c/2)-1, o=trunc(c*.25)-1, o=trunc(c*.75)-1, o=trunc(c/3)-1, o=trunc(2*c/3)-1, o=trunc(sqrt(c)-1), and so forth. To date the deepest tree found where o<c had a depth of 13, this was 50p+/-27 at 1,879 (o=c/2+2). After the second generativity test, I'll probably code up a third G test where the scenarios listed above are checked out. This will be interesting because then I can possibly confirm that G for o>c is greater than G for o<c.

Oh BTW... I claim page 3 of PFS#100 for ME! Wheeeee! That was fun.

EDIT: I can count... really.


Hi Chuck,

While I think these results deserve much congratulations, do you think you're in good way to break the world record??

It seems a huge effort to go from depth 16 to 17. And I intuitively believe that the effort required to go one step beyond will grow exponentially (at least).

Is there any theory prooving that the world record is breakable?


Eric.

PS: Was I the last to post on 9:36?

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potm
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for potm     
quote:
Originally posted by Token:
I don't expect to find meaning in this thread. I'm just commenting that this one is boring so far, since most of the posts are about it being #100. Since this is the Post For Stuff, I can post that here.


I wasn't in fact referring to you I think.

__________________
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Originally posted by bel_riose:
Never wanted to know what means potm?

HANH

Everytime FyreStar says "grasshopper", Hat, the Vulture-headed God of unexpected guests, kills a badger.


b_berry11
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for b_berry11   Click Here to Email b_berry11     
quote:
Originally posted by GottaLoveElves:

Fun's over boys.
I did, however, save everything up to potm's last reply on page 10 to my computer.



lol,why for.

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Yeah, that was me talking in the 9:36 thread

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Havoc Demon
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Havoc Demon   Click Here to Email Havoc Demon     
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
Okay...party's over...nothing to see here. 9:36 was all part of your imagination...


That was fun, I should come to this neck of the woods more often.

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Token
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Token   Click Here to Email Token     
Hmm. I can save everything but page one. Ah, well, this one didn't have the greatness of 6:22.


b_berry11
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for b_berry11   Click Here to Email b_berry11     
lol. What year was 6:22? I missed it obviously.

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Yeah, that was me talking in the 9:36 thread

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nderdog
Moderator
posted January 14, 2004 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog   Click Here to Email nderdog     
I'd be interested to see the top posters from 9:36 from someone who has the stuff saved.

__________________
There's no need to fear,
UNDERDOG is here! :)

Bad Guys Fear The UNDERDOG - Flavor_of_the_Weak

Participant in 09:36 PM!


torie_62
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for torie_62   Click Here to Email torie_62     
Oh My Gosh..I'm so sorry peoples..I was at the gym...I get home and hubby tells me there is another wild post happening....
That was him...trying to post on the wild thread...NOT ME.
CAN HE PLEASE HAVE HIS OWN MOTL ACCOUNT....so I don't get banned because of him?????


potm
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for potm     
here she is, in all her glory:

http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/012395-10.html

09.36pm

closest in b4 close repruhzentin

:edit: owned implode along the way

__________________
rationalist :: metalhead :: perfectionist :: godless :: happy

Originally posted by bel_riose:
Never wanted to know what means potm?

HANH

Everytime FyreStar says "grasshopper", Hat, the Vulture-headed God of unexpected guests, kills a badger.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by potm on January 14, 2004]


implode
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for implode   Click Here to Email implode     
9:36 will always be remembered...

http://www.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/012395-10.html

Token
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Token   Click Here to Email Token     
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
I'd be interested to see the top posters from 9:36 from someone who has the stuff saved.


I'm sure GLE can tell us, or give you a copy of what's saved.

b_berry11
Member
posted January 14, 2004 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for b_berry11   Click Here to Email b_berry11     
Whoah, I could sworn I had like 20 less posts a while ago.. I wonder what happened

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Yeah, that was me talking in the 9:36 thread

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