http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/024369.html

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Originally posted by totalkaoz:
What exactly made Mystical Tutor broken enough to be banned?

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
No, I think they just wanted to knock out a problem card. I don't expect any of the others to be axed, because they're nowhere near as good as Mystical.

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
I don't understand what you're saying. I said that Mystical was a problem card. And it was, it's very strong and makes both of those into tier 1 decks. Neither of the decks you mentioned use topdeck tutors. Reanimator and ANT have won and top-8ed many tournaments. Legacy will almost never have one dominant deck due to its incredibly wide cardpool.

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Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Look at what is winning lately. New horizons/Zoo != ANT/Reanimator

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
I don't understand what you're saying. I said that Mystical was a problem card. And it was, it's very strong and makes both of those into tier 1 decks. Neither of the decks you mentioned use topdeck tutors. Reanimator and ANT have won and top-8ed many tournaments. Legacy will almost never have one dominant deck due to its incredibly wide cardpool.

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He was using sarcasm to prove a point. Zoo and New Horizons have (Atlanta aside) been extremely solid decks. I think NH has been making stronger showings than Reanimator recently. Mystical certainly wasn't enough to break the format- in fact, I know people are working on ways to play Reanimator post-banning, and our ANT list won't suffer significantly.

In Europe though, Mystical Tutor was everywhere, but not truly strong enough to justify its banning.

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Originally posted by mm1983:
Legacy ANT plays 0 cost creatures which allows for something like Diabolic Intent to be played in place of Mystical Tutor.

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Real legacy ANT decks have'nt played zero cost creatures in years. No ornithopters, no kobolds, no shield spheres.

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Originally posted by MagixDK:
i hope senseis divining top get the axe first.

as a player and former TO, waiting extra 35 mins for every control or aggro control deck featuring this card, is freaking annoying.

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Originally posted by MagixDK:
i hope senseis divining top get the axe first.

as a player and former TO, waiting extra 35 mins for every control or aggro control deck featuring this card, is freaking annoying.

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Originally posted by Tranderas:

I think legacy pre-banning was just about as balanced as any format has been since Mirrodin-Ravnica Standard. It's banning is rather meh. It means that creature-oriented strategies will return to the forefront. New Horizons got big because it deals with those two decks, but now I think it will become terrible with people moving toward Zoo- at least in the short term. Once people figure out how to play ANT and Reanimator without Mystical (and, contrary to popular belief, we do think it's possible) we'll see a return to those decks.

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Chime. Not that I'm a combo fan by any stretch (frankly, it's not fun to play against). The real problem with Reanimator is the printing of grossly overpowered (but still cheat-into-play-able) cards like Iona, Emrakul, and Progenitus, which are extremely difficult to deal with--followed by the unbanning of Entomb, which certainly doesn't help the situation. Of course, once they're printed, banning them would be kinda weird and definitely unparsimonious. If you're going to throw a wrench into combo and Reanimator's works, then banning Tutor is definitely the way to go. I just don't think it was warranted.

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Chime. Not that I'm a combo fan by any stretch (frankly, it's not fun to play against). The real problem with Reanimator is the printing of grossly overpowered (but still cheat-into-play-able) cards like Iona, Emrakul, and Progenitus, which are extremely difficult to deal with--followed by the unbanning of Entomb, which certainly doesn't help the situation.

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Originally posted by thror:
2 of those 3 can't actually be cheated into play via reanimation, and by extension see zero play in said deck.

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I should have been clearer: I meant "cards like" (emphasis on their similarity), I didn't mean to say say that Emrakul and Progenitus were part of Reanimator--although there's a current preponderance of similarly minded decks (on MWS) using Tutor (well, not any more), Show and Tell, Natural Order, and even Reanimate/Entomb (!) to have their way. But that's neither here nor there.

I simply meant to point to those three cards as indicative of increasing power levels (could have included the new Jace as well, which is ridiculously powerful) that make formerly relatively weak decks incredibly difficult to deal with. It's not the old cards that are the problem, it's the power creep in the new ones.

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
I should have been clearer: I meant "cards like" (emphasis on their similarity), I didn't mean to say say that Emrakul and Progenitus were part of Reanimator--although there's a current preponderance of similarly minded decks (on MWS) using Tutor (well, not any more), Show and Tell, Natural Order, and even Reanimate/Entomb (!) to have their way. But that's neither here nor there.

I simply meant to point to those three cards as indicative of increasing power levels (could have included the new Jace as well, which is ridiculously powerful) that make formerly relatively weak decks incredibly difficult to deal with. It's not the old cards that are the problem, it's the power creep in the new ones.

EDIT 1: Posted without text.
EDIT 2: Typo.

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The weird thing on the "some old decks are hard to deal with as a result of new cards" argument is that our playgroup found that Zoo (an old deck that's been here since around Ravnica) has excellent game against both decks. Reanimator finds it awkward to determine which creature it wants to reanimate; and, if it chooses Iona, it faces a difficult choice regarding what color to shut off. Also keep in mind that if Reanimator needs to use Reanimate to get its fattie, it is within 3-4 burn spells of a kill from a deck that runs 12-14. ANT likewise faces 5-7 sideboard cards from Zoo and the risk of simply getting burned to the point that it can't fire. Goblins does the same thing to both decks; leaves confusion about which color Reanimator wants to shut off ("Do I hit red and leave Iona open to Warren Weirding, or hit black and only shut off 4 cards in the deck?") and forces ANT to go off faster than it may be prepared to or face not having the life to spend to finish.

I definitely didn't express myself properly earlier, however. Once again, apologies for giving the impression that I was talking about Emrakul and Progenitus in reanimator (crappy MWS decks aside). I was trying to make a point about power creep rather than one about Reanimator, but I jumbled the two.

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"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari