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Author
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Topic: Jace 3.0 discussion: Good, really good, or broken?
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thror
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 04:49 PM
       
Jace 3.0 was designed and developed at least 6 months ago, long before wotc decided banning Mindsculptor.__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted [19:01] <nderEvo> you can delete yourself
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Jtrade77
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 11:47 PM
Seems about as good as Liliana Vess.Only a broken 4-of in a combo deck that can generate additional turns. If standard gets that, then expect high pricing. If not, expect to pay about as much as Tezzeret the Seeker cost before Tezz found himself a Time Vault.
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gcowhsu
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 02:26 PM
This guy doesn't effect the board or protect itself and is mana intensive. Archive trap mills 13 instead of 10 and any draw spell is better than 5 mana. very very bad. Seriously if this guy is anywhere near $40 trade him instantly for the real jace.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by gcowhsu on June 27, 2011]
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nailbunny7
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 02:40 PM
He'll be really good as far as cube goes though. Can win within 2-3 turns if you can protect him!
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JTAubrey
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 02:46 PM
Can't be just any graveyard cards to make this guy any good. He comes down on five and needs protection set up which means control or sluggish combo. Will need good control cards with flashback or recurring gy blockers to be any good.Best bet is to look for cards on the power level of moments peace or narcomoeba, Deep analysis etc. Even then could probably only work in standard.
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98ViperGTS
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 03:39 PM
The only reason people are even debating how good this guy is, is based off the name "Jace". They hear it, and immediately think of how good Jace 2.0 is, and think that this is a replacement. This is not a replacement for him. No way this guy is worth much more than Beleren unless mill becomes viable in the future. I expect $12-15
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bigbob585
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 05:59 PM
QFT.. grindstone was pretty good in legacy lately. What about legacy play with this guy?
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Bugger
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 06:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bigbob585:
QFT.. grindstone was pretty good in legacy lately. What about legacy play with this guy?
Where would he go? Dredge has far more efficient enablers than 5 mana for 10 measly cards. Ichorid doesn't use mana at all, and it's impossible to cheat a planeswalker into play. Painter-Grindstone doesn't need him. __________________
"I never got any respect at all. My family moved a lot when I was a kid, but I always found them."
-- Rodney Dangerfield
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 27, 2011 08:31 PM
Just wait for Innistrad, there's prolly some tech that will go smoothly with Jace #3.But in Legacy? I don't think so. Btw, I call him EMO JACE :P
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Devonin
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 06:22 AM
If you treat him as automatically drawing you a card as a function of coming into play, Jace 1.0 is a 2 loyalty planeswalker for 3 mana that loses counters to draw you cards. If you treat him as automatically drawing you a card as a function of coming into play, Jace 3.0 is a 5 loyalty planeswalker for 5 mana that adds counters to draw you cards. They reprint wall of omens, and I fail to see how this is a -bad- card.
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Havoc Demon
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 08:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
If you treat him as automatically drawing you a card as a function of coming into play, Jace 1.0 is a 2 loyalty planeswalker for 3 mana that loses counters to draw you cards. If you treat him as automatically drawing you a card as a function of coming into play, Jace 3.0 is a 5 loyalty planeswalker for 5 mana that adds counters to draw you cards. They reprint wall of omens, and I fail to see how this is a -bad- card.
The two mana difference is a little more significant. Especially considering you could play something like Jace's Ingenuity for the same amount and hit three cards at an end step instead of the likelihood of skipping a turn just for one. __________________
Most References in Massachusetts
85th All-timeSupport my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
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stu55
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 09:18 AM
as it stands now, this guy is basically unplayable
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Havoc Demon
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 09:24 AM
I think I might get one and have it altered as Jace skateboarding or surfing. __________________
Most References in Massachusetts
85th All-timeSupport my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
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Devonin
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 10:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
The two mana difference is a little more significant. Especially considering you could play something like Jace's Ingenuity for the same amount and hit three cards at an end step instead of the likelihood of skipping a turn just for one.
Odds are he's drawing you at -least- two cards before he dies, which also decks them for two, eats at least one combat round or direct burn spell, possibly two if you have some defense in place like wall of omens.
5 mana for 3 cards from jace's ingenuity 5 mana for 2 cards, mill two, and gaining at least one, probably two cards from the opponent as well seems better. Hide him behind a Gideon and he's even better than that.
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totalkaoz
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 11:30 AM
5 mana planeswalker = jank. Gideon was the only one to see play really and that was only to protect important 4 mana planeswalkers.
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Devonin
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 11:51 AM
Gideon was good for MANY things beyond protecting Jace TMS. Also, as for 5-mana planeswalkers being jank, Venser and Tezzeret disagree at least a little.
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junichi
Moderator
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posted June 28, 2011 12:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Gideon was good for MANY things beyond protecting Jace TMS. Also, as for 5-mana planeswalkers being jank, Venser and Tezzeret disagree at least a little.
Venser is crap. __________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 ChampionGet a brain, Morans!
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Bugger
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 12:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Odds are he's drawing you at -least- two cards before he dies, which also decks them for two, eats at least one combat round or direct burn spell, possibly two if you have some defense in place like wall of omens.5 mana for 3 cards from jace's ingenuity 5 mana for 2 cards, mill two, and gaining at least one, probably two cards from the opponent as well seems better. Hide him behind a Gideon and he's even better than that.
Another important distinction is that Jace's Ingenuity does not read "draw a card. At the beginning of your next precombat main phase, draw another card. At the beginning of your following precombat main phase, draw another card." The value of extra cards diminishes as the game prolongs. If Jace's ingenuity were only to draw two, it would still be superior to Jace3 because it's giving you both card and tempo advantage. The milling is irrelevant and in 99% of cases completely useless. Jace's + ability might as well read "Draw a card, then target player adds one mana of any color in his commander's color identity to his or her mana pool" for all the effect it has on the game state. I wouldn't factor it into consideration when looking at the quality of Jace's ability. __________________
"I never got any respect at all. My family moved a lot when I was a kid, but I always found them."
-- Rodney Dangerfield
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Havoc Demon
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 02:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Hide him behind a Gideon and he's even better than that.
But that means that Gideon is good and Jace is just riding his coattails. __________________
Most References in Massachusetts
85th All-timeSupport my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 03:42 PM
@WeedIan :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120587&d=1309233956 Edit: *facepalm* reading is tech -_-
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Heresy19 on June 28, 2011]
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SageShadows
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 03:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
@WeedIan :Personal Sanctuary ... Turbo Fog is coming back  http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120587&d=1309233956
But it's only during your turn.
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junichi
Moderator
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posted June 28, 2011 03:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
@WeedIan :Personal Sanctuary ... Turbo Fog is coming back http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120587&d=1309233956
How does that work with Turbo Fog?  The only thing it stops is direct damage on your turn, which Leyline of Sanctity is miles better. (Until it rotates out.  ) __________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 ChampionGet a brain, Morans!
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 04:00 PM
lol I just saw that... *sighs*Oh well, at least there's a ancestral recall for the jace #3 players 
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Heresy19 on June 28, 2011]
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junichi
Moderator
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posted June 28, 2011 04:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
lol I just saw that... *sighs*Oh well, at least there's a ancestral recall for the jace #3 players
Yea. I think an energy field with no drawback for 3cc would definitely kill the game. __________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 ChampionGet a brain, Morans!
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bigbob585
Member
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posted June 28, 2011 05:43 PM
what would the benefit of milling somebody 10 cards be? while it's a crapshoot for what you'd be making them discard, it would help get rid of some bombs against every deck except eldrazi.If you get an average of 2 turns out of it, what are the odds of milling at least 1 of their win conditions in 10 or 20 cards?
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