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Author
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Topic: Jace 3.0 discussion: Good, really good, or broken?
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bigbob585
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 05:24 PM
       
A good discussion seems to be in order here. They just spoiled Jace, Memory Adept and I'm thinking this could get pretty nasty.[+1]: Draw a card. Target player puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
[0]: Target player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
[-7]: Any number of target players each draw twenty cards. What do you all think about it's playability in standard, extended, and legacy as well as potential value? I can see this being played quite a bit and bringing back megrim, mind rot, and the lot. I'd expect it to plateau around $45 after zendikar rotates before dropping down to around $20
[Edited 2 times, lastly by bigbob585 on June 24, 2011]
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SageShadows
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 05:46 PM
It's all contextual. Within the current standard, it's just not worth it. Maybe with Innistrad and GY cards, it'll be a house, but for now, it's just a cool tabletop card.
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Bugger
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 05:58 PM
He'll be fairly pricey right out of the gate, see a bit of fringe play, then drop when people realize he's nothing special. Probably to around 10$. When the inevitably strongest "graveyard matters" cards are printed in Innistrad's 3rd set, he'll almost definitely see constructed play as a graveyard enabler. In other word, he's going to be used as a meatshield and for his 0 ability, if anything. I'd rather not pay 5 mana for a single card, personally.In terms of the power level of his card - similar to stoneforge, it's all contextual. Considering it is confirmed at this point that flashback will return and Innistrad is a graveyard block, I expect him to be decent. If he gets too strong there's plenty of planeswalker hate out there for him (I fully expect to see Oblivion Ring and Pithing Needle in M12 or Innistrad), but even if that's not enough, it's not as though his abilities are as broad in application as Jace 2. He's really only useful with a heavy graveyard theme, meaning he'll be in 1 or 2 decks, not every single one. His ultimate is cute in 2HG and emperor, I'll grant that. __________________
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-- Rodney Dangerfield
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Goaswerfraiejen
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 08:53 PM
Legacy: Largely useless. Jace TMS is vastly superior, and there's a great deal more you could be doing with that 5-mana slot. I just don't see any room for this Jace in any existing deck (since it's always outclassed by TMS), and it doesn't seem worth the trouble to build around it.
__________________
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Havoc Demon
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 09:22 PM
Starcity will set it at something stupid like 35-50 and that will be its price. As for playability, beats me. __________________
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ninjazwig
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 09:28 PM
 
The dude is a limited bomb and that's about all I see for now.
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daner
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 10:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
Starcity will set it at something stupid like 35-50 and that will be its price. As for playability, beats me.
It's already @ 34.99 pre-sale....a total ripoff. Until there is a heavy GY theme and good GY cards this thing is probably worse than OG Jace.
quote:
Originally posted by ninjazwig:
The dude is a limited bomb and that's about all I see for now.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Yup....stone stupid bomb in limited. Then again you're talking about a limited format that will already include the titans again, Volcanic Dragon/Sengir/Serra as uncommons, and Gideon :/ .......wtf? God help you if you don't open bombs.
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SageShadows
Member
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posted June 24, 2011 10:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by daner:
It's already @ 34.99 pre-sale....a total ripoff. Until there is a heavy GY theme and good GY cards this thing is probably worse than OG Jace.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Yup....stone stupid bomb in limited. Then again you're talking about a limited format that will already include the titans again, Volcanic Dragon/Sengir/Serra as uncommons, and Gideon :/ .......wtf? God help you if you don't open bombs.
Hey, shut up. That's exactly what happened to me in M11 pre-release. And all the other sealed tournaments I've played in...
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Philip papas
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 03:50 AM
watch vengvine !
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daner
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 06:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip papas:
watch vengvine !
There are already better/more cost efficient ways to get Vengvine into you graveyard. Fauna Shaman is still standard legal along with Vengvine. Spending 5 mana, milling yourself, and wasting a card from your hand just hopin gto put Vengvine into your GY seems like a terrible plan. Fauna Shaman is still the way to go.
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Bugger
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 06:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by daner:
There are already better/more cost efficient ways to get Vengvine into you graveyard. Fauna Shaman is still standard legal along with Vengvine. Spending 5 mana, milling yourself, and wasting a card from your hand just hopin gto put Vengvine into your GY seems like a terrible plan. Fauna Shaman is still the way to go.
Qft.
And, for similar reasons, this will see zero play in dredge. __________________
"I never got any respect at all. My family moved a lot when I was a kid, but I always found them."
-- Rodney Dangerfield
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ScottyStyles
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 11:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
Qft.
And, for similar reasons, this will see zero play in dredge.
I didn't know that dredge paid mana for stuff.
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Goaswerfraiejen
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 01:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ScottyStyles:
I didn't know that dredge paid mana for stuff.
Breakthrough and Coliseum. And flashback costs on enchantment/artifact removal (after boarding) and Deep Analysis.  __________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.
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ScottyStyles
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 03:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Breakthrough and Coliseum. And flashback costs on enchantment/artifact removal (after boarding) and Deep Analysis.
Was a joke  But, they never pay more than 1 or 2 mana... let alone 5.
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 25, 2011 03:56 PM
I might do a standard Turbo Fog deck with Jace 3.0 and Rites of Flourishing... if more draw spells/counter spells/fog effects are made And of course, I want a new grave hate card in INN.
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joz
Banned
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posted June 25, 2011 07:14 PM
At 5 mana, he's a good casual card, but at 5 mana, and with his abilities, unless Inistrad brings some very, strange, cards into existence, I do not see Jace 3.0 being very good in Standard, except for limited. Everything is good in Limited... except anything I manage to draft.__________________
Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
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WeedIan
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 02:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
I might do a standard Turbo Fog deck with Jace 3.0 and Rites of Flourishing... if more draw spells/counter spells/fog effects are made And of course, I want a new grave hate card in INN.
I think you need 12 fog cards in the format for Turbo fog to do well. And Howling Mine or something similar.
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 09:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Heresy19:
Rites of Flourishing
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joz
Banned
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posted June 26, 2011 10:47 AM
Looks like presale price is 30-40 for Jace 3.0__________________
Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
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revenger
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 10:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:Breakthrough and Coliseum. And flashback costs on enchantment/artifact removal (after boarding) and Deep Analysis.
Could this explain why my 1 breakthrough jumped in price? imo, wotc is just fixing Jace. Jace Memory Adept is a water downed version of Jtms. and didnt wotc have already a gy theme set/block? __________________
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joz
Banned
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posted June 26, 2011 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:Breakthrough and Coliseum. And flashback costs on enchantment/artifact removal (after boarding) and Deep Analysis.
Could this explain why my 1 breakthrough jumped in price? imo, wotc is just fixing Jace. Jace Memory Adept is a water downed version of Jtms. and didnt wotc have already a gy theme set/block? [/QUOTE] Breakthough went from $2.00...to 2.00...
__________________
Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?Gunslinga - If I thought it would help, and if I could, I would.
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Goaswerfraiejen
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 11:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by revenger:
[QUOTE] and didnt wotc have already a gy theme set/block?
Torment, yeah. Well, that whole block (Odyssey block). It would be nice to revisit the graveyard, though--especially with Delve. As for Breakthrough... depends on the time period. Wasn't it worth a couple pennies when it was printed? Maybe not, I don't remember. But Ichorid decks have been plootering around for ages now, so I don't see why it would have jumped recently. __________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.
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WeedIan
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 12:06 PM
@Heresy19I mean in addition to Rites of Flourishing Only have 4x cards in your deck that make you and your opponent draw sucks. If Temple Bell is re-printed that could work. __________________
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Heresy19
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 02:07 PM
Weed : ah! :PWell.... time will tell I guess hehe, I really like Turbo Fog That Jace Adept thingy could be cool too... then again, I want 0 creatures in the deck besides Inkmoth Nexus (as a alternate-win con) so that removal spells are dead cards in my opponent hands :P
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Heresy19 on June 26, 2011]
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revenger
Member
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posted June 26, 2011 04:25 PM
I just think wotc wanted to replace all the previous planeswalkers with the latest planeswalkers, then realized Jtms was to good, had to ban it, to they decided to water it down. Why fix Chandra? Whats wrong with Koth? Nissa seems a better fit for 2012 then a reworked Garruk. idk bout wotc these days.~revenger __________________
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