quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
Ask me in three months or so; I sold all of mine at $15 right after Jace got banned.

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that seems truly poor, as the default best deck on everyone's lips was valakut.. and primeval actually saw brief spike the night the bannings got announced, irl and modo versions.. 15 was shorting pretty poorly. I mean, when jace got banned, you could snag jaces @ 40-45 bin, and ppl predicted it was gonna fall to the 30s.. guess what? didnt happen.

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And yeah, I did look at M11. I saw what happened to Baneslayer, which was $50, and then it was $15. You're kidding yourself that all these cards will hold value after reprints. Are you going to tell me that Lavamancer is a strong buy at $8 too?

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do you actually understand what happened to baneslayer, or rather, why it dipped and didnt come back up in value?
it wasnt because of the reprint. the reprint did kill a bit of its value, but not as drastically as the titans. baneslayer became irrelevant to other format defining and field altering cards, it wasnt as dominant as it was before m11. you dont understand the format, and thus, dont understand a lot of what you're trying to talk about.

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At least I'm receiving criticism from people who know more or less what their talking about, which always makes for interesting discussions

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what's there to discuss? your general call of bulk pricing in the eventual scheme of things of the majority of rares a five yr old could have made the same call, that's not genius, nor surprising, as for your predictions of primevals.. summer is the season of nats, and japan will lead the way. 7 of the 4-0 standard decks from day 1 is valakut, if it performs well, i predict by noon monday, primeval will see a noticeable uptick on feebay.

©

__________________
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-Christopher Hitchens

quote:

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Originally posted by coolio:
that seems truly poor, as the default best deck on everyone's lips was valakut.. and primeval actually saw brief spike the night the bannings got announced, irl and modo versions.. 15 was shorting pretty poorly. I mean, when jace got banned, you could snag jaces @ 40-45 bin, and ppl predicted it was gonna fall to the 30s.. guess what? didnt happen.

do you actually understand what happened to baneslayer, or rather, why it dipped and didnt come back up in value?
it wasnt because of the reprint. the reprint did kill a bit of its value, but not as drastically as the titans. baneslayer became irrelevant to other format defining and field altering cards, it wasnt as dominant as it was before m11. you dont understand the format, and thus, dont understand a lot of what you're trying to talk about.

what's there to discuss? your general call of bulk pricing in the eventual scheme of things of the majority of rares a five yr old could have made the same call, that's not genius, nor surprising, as for your predictions of primevals.. summer is the season of nats, and japan will lead the way. 7 of the 4-0 standard decks from day 1 is valakut, if it performs well, i predict by noon monday, primeval will see a noticeable uptick on feebay.

©

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Actually, $15 was good. I am not a dealer, I barely play, and only collect and trade. Could I have gotten $20 out of it? Maybe, but probably not. Since I am not you, I feel $15 was very solid. I bet a ton of people right now wish they could get $15 on them.

I believe I mentioned in a thread Jaces would fall to $40 right after the banning. People saying they would fall to $30 or less were insane.

Baneslayer fell to $15, didn't it? And a lot of people said there was no way he'd be less than $30 or whatever. Valakut may continue being the best deck for a few months, and then when Zendikar rotates, it's anyone's guess. Mine is that if there is no Valakut in the format, there is no reason for it to be $15-$20.

The discussion is that there are a ton of self proclaimed "financial experts" out there that don't know balls about what they are talking about. I haven't seen any review calling out the set for what it is, i.e., a bunch of chaff. All I have read is that Solemn is going to be more than $5, Lavamancer is a strong buy @ $8, Primevals are a good deal at $15, wtf is this crap? I do agree, a five year old could say that the majority will be bulk. Then why are not the "financial writers" saying it?

And, for reference, from the second paragraph of my post:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
Lastly, I am not a pro player, nor a self proclaimed financial writer. I just happen to [think] I know my stuff.

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Which translates to: I don't have a deep understanding of the formats nor do I proclaim to have deep financial knowledge. I, however, have made my fair share of change in Magic, which is better than most people.

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
Let's see, Frost Titan is currently sitting @ 13/set or so. Primeval is around 12 each, but due to Valakut. Fair enough, I didn't said that it would instantly become $5. Inferno Titan is going from 12/set to 15/set. Grave Titan, a bunch of auctions @ 20/set. Poor Sun Titan is 12-14/set.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
What was Stoneforge Mystic the week it was released? Or Tarmogoyf? What you are telling people is to stay away from these cards because they have no chance of going back up. I'll ask you, what is going to replace them in decks?

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A better question would be, what is going to replace Valakut (not to mention Emrakul)? There are always good things at < 3cmc (like Buried Ruin, which synergizes better with Sun Titan than Primeval anyhow), freezing a permanent is always relevant, 4 power is always relevant, and divisible 3 damage is always relevant. Primeval Titan's usefulness is entirely dependent on the lands he can search for and the fatties he can ramp into.

But by all means, continue. I'd hate to interrupt your ****ing contest. Remember, making sure someone else feels bad for having opinions is the important part.

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Originally posted by Bugger:
A better question would be, what is going to replace Valakut (not to mention Emrakul)? There are always good things at < 3cmc (like Buried Ruin, which synergizes better with Sun Titan than Primeval anyhow), freezing a permanent is always relevant, 4 power is always relevant, and divisible 3 damage is always relevant. Primeval Titan's usefulness is entirely dependent on the lands he can search for and the fatties he can ramp into.

But by all means, continue. I'd hate to interrupt your ****ing contest. Remember, making sure someone else feels bad for having opinions is the important part.

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__________________
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quote:

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Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
It's funny how people get when they hear a dissenting opinion.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
Everyone knows MOTL's community is full of D-bags, That's why only a handful of people even use this site for communicating. It's just a trading website because of the people in this community take the game way to serious and way to far, They have nothing better to do apparently.

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Isn't the word your looking for "troll" ?

__________________
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Originally posted by joz:
Isn't the word your looking for "troll" ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JoshSherman:
I have a sneaky suspicion that Sun Titan will be the most relevant titan in October.

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but im not gona make any real guesses...

__________________
Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?

quote:

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Originally posted by Skwirlnutz:
Everyone knows MOTL's community is full of D-bags, That's why only a handful of people even use this site for communicating. It's just a trading website because of the people in this community take the game way to serious and way to far, They have nothing better to do apparently.

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+1. Give the guy some cred for giving us his opinion. Let him speak his piece. Just because it's different than ours doesn't mean he should get slaughtered for us. Mr. C., thanks for your report. I don't agree with someone of it, but I like to see what other thinks about a set.

Also, I like the negative view point towards constructed play value and such as opposed to the review from the guy over at SCG where every other cards is: OMG this is a power house standard, OMG and this is a bomb limited, OMG EDH players are gonna love this... crap!

"+1. Give the guy some cred for giving us his opinion. Let him speak his piece. Just because it's different than ours doesn't mean he should get slaughtered for us. Mr. C., thanks for your report. I don't agree with someone of it, but I like to see what other thinks about a set."

A collectible is only worth what someone else is willing to pay.

Having said that, consider this:

Every time we take a dollar out of our pocket, we are voting.
Every purchase, WotC product or secondary market singles adds to our collective knowledge of what is good/working and what is bad/failing. WotC is winning. SCG is winning. We are not. This set, overall (imo), is bad.
A lot of thought went into making this set. Highly paid, very intelligent people are going out of there way to construct these sets to sell the highest volume of sealed product. The secondary market is coping with the fact that we are not as highly paid as WotC employees even though many of us are clearly much smarter.

Lets not buy any cases of this set. Buy only the singles you need. If it's a reprint buy the older version (those packs are already open, wotc won't make more money from us).

In the future, we should care less about the foil/foreign/pimpness of our cards and care more about the quality of our game play. M12 is proof we should all be employees at R&D but since that isn't going to happen. Why aren't all the cards in our sets shiny and full art again? Filler commons and janky rares? Mediocre mythics? Mythics at all?

I like playing against spikes or anyone with more desire to win then myself. I like playing the rule nazis. I like playing that guy that proxied 56/60 cards he couldn't afford for his Vintage.

In our heads, we have all the secrets of balanced card/set design. That which makes the game fun/rewarding/challenging is not that which makes the most dollars.

Lend your extra good cards to your neighbors so that their decks suck less. Give bad cards away so that bad players don't waste good money on bad packs.

quote:

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Originally posted by wakeupwithastory:
M12 is proof we should all be employees at R&D

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Sorry, I guess my crystal ball isn't nearly as good as yours. I can't get mine to tell me how this set will interact with the next block that it was likely designed to work with.

Also, I'm pretty sure that there aren't more than about 5 MOTLers who I would consider capable of having anything to do with the development of Magic who wouldn't destroy the whole thing in short order because of their lack of overall vision of how things work and avoiding power creep and all of those important things.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

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Originally posted by nderdog:
Sorry, I guess my crystal ball isn't nearly as good as yours. I can't get mine to tell me how this set will interact with the next block that it was likely designed to work with.

Also, I'm pretty sure that there aren't more than about 5 MOTLers who I would consider capable of having anything to do with the development of Magic who wouldn't destroy the whole thing in short order because of their lack of overall vision of how things work and avoiding power creep and all of those important things.

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I would say this is exactly what they want us to think.
WotC says they are more smarterer then us.
That we need them and their expertise.
We should fear what would happen without them.
They have a plan for the future.

We can't have that secret information? It hurts us to know what is coming? Or we won't buy that box if we know those cards aren't as good as what comes out in a few months.

Be wary of anyone that pretends to have secret information about anything but won't tell you what it is. That applies to school teachers, government officials, church leaders. They want to keep secrets? From us? Why?

All true information should be available to everyone. Always. Freely.

R&D has a future league that plays with cards that aren't available to us. This is to test things. To check and balance things. What happened to the future future league though? Clearly they aren't thinking as far ahead as they want us to believe. There is more luck to this then they would have us believe. More off the hip/out of the box/ improvisation then geniuses parallel developing the same brilliant ideas and getting together to share.

quote:

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Originally posted by wakeupwithastory:
WotC says they are more smarterer then us.

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'nuff said.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

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Originally posted by wakeupwithastory:
paranoid rambling

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Holy hell dude, save conspiracy theories for stuff that actually matters, like the Kennedy assassination or something.

Also, as Nderdog pointed out already, WotC may not be smarter than all of MOTL's population, but they're sure as heck smarterer than you.

Its not a theory. Profit is a conspiracy. Capitalism is a conspiracy. They with the money, keep it going. Intentionally. They think its a good idea. They give you a couple dollars and now you think its a good idea too. You don't deserve more than that bum, you don't work any harder or smarter, you just can't get over that.

They control the rate information is leaked. This builds suspense. We buy more cards if we are teased like this. If every women you met teased you in a similar fashion you'd buy a lot more drinks at bars, or shoes at malls.

Because you enjoy the game, you believe they are doing a good job. I also enjoy the game, I appreciate the work they do for us. They don't do it for us though. They do it to stay paid. The ones that love the game, would probably do it for free if that kind of charity supported their families. That gives us faith that our game is in the right hands.

This does really matter. If it didn't, you guys wouldn't attack me. You are resisting change. My ideas don't agree with the status quo.

You are judging me to say WotC is a lot smarter than I am.
It doesn't even make sense to assume that, you just want to believe they are more intelligent because they give you the cards you play with, but since I don't charge you for boosters of my information you resign that my information is worthless.

*EDIT* The topic is the financial review of M12 and you guys trolling/flaming me is really lame. My information is in regards to us spending too much money on bad cards and how we can help ourselves instead of relying on WotC to tell us what is worth our money.