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Author Topic:   Vesuva
Ryoka
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posted September 13, 2011 12:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ryoka Send a private message to Ryoka Click to send Ryoka an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
hi all,

i know what vesuva is worth now....but givenits popularity, does anything think it will be banned?

before u rip into me, i recall few months ago when people were saying "jace 2.0 will not be banned, ESPECIALLY since its rotating out in 4 months". then guess what, they banned him.

 
simbayu
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posted September 13, 2011 12:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for simbayu Send a private message to simbayu Click to send simbayu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
No offense bro, but you need to think why they ban cards. Jace was dominant and he was banned. Has Vesuva been dominant?

That should give you your answer.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by simbayu on September 13, 2011]

 
mm1983
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posted September 13, 2011 04:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
I think they waited too long to ban Jace 2.0 for standard. If he was so powerful in Standard they should have banned him a year before they did.
 
rats60
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posted September 13, 2011 07:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rats60 Click Here to Email rats60 Send a private message to rats60 Click to send rats60 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rats60's Have/Want ListView rats60's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Ryoka:
hi all,

i know what vesuva is worth now....but givenits popularity, does anything think it will be banned?

before u rip into me, i recall few months ago when people were saying "jace 2.0 will not be banned, ESPECIALLY since its rotating out in 4 months". then guess what, they banned him.


Jace was placing 6 or 7 times in the Top 8s of Pro Tours and Grand Prixs (even 15 of the top 16 at one event). Vesuva placed 1 in the Top 8 and didn't win. So, yes you need to be ripped into. WOTC doesn't go around banning cards from any deck that Top 8s. They only ban when a deck keeps the format from being diverse. In the future please take these threads to Salvation where they belong.

 
LemonMeringue
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posted September 13, 2011 07:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
Is rite of flame going to be banned?
Edit: Is blazing shoal going to be banned?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by LemonMeringue on September 13, 2011]
 
Malicious
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posted September 13, 2011 09:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Malicious Send a private message to Malicious Click to send Malicious an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
wtf. since when did motl turn people into morons who ask <snip> questions.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by BoltBait on September 13, 2011]
 
yukizora
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posted September 13, 2011 09:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yukizora Click Here to Email yukizora Send a private message to yukizora Click to send yukizora an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
My bets:

+ Rite of Flame
- Chrome Mox

 
gcowhsu
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posted September 13, 2011 09:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
They don't ban popular cards they ban dominant cards.
 
choco man
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posted September 13, 2011 10:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by gcowhsu:
They don't ban popular cards they ban dominant cards.

Who knows what they will ban/unban? WOTC hasn't been consistent enough in their approach to banning cards.

 
Cyno
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posted September 13, 2011 10:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Cyno Click Here to Email Cyno Send a private message to Cyno Click to send Cyno an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
with Vesuva's win% at PT philly I highly doubt it.

But, it was the 1st event so who knows what happens. it's more likely that some cards will come off the list though.

 
eXtremeEagle
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posted September 13, 2011 10:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for eXtremeEagle Click Here to Email eXtremeEagle Send a private message to eXtremeEagle Click to send eXtremeEagle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View eXtremeEagle's Have/Want ListView eXtremeEagle's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Cyno:
with Vesuva's win% at PT philly I highly doubt it.

But, it was the 1st event so who knows what happens. it's more likely that some cards will come off the list though.


You have to look at more than just how one deck does to evaluate a card's position in the meta. The presence of Cloudpost/Vesuva meant there was a deck in the format that was almost guaranteed to land a game-winner turn 4 or 5. Because of this, it wasn't feasible to play a deck that plans on playing the long game and grinding someone out, like Junk.

It was because of Cloudpost and Vesuva that everyone at the PT worked on building a combo deck that could win before 12post drops Emrakul, and lead to heavy-combo meta. Without those cards, you could play something like Junk or control which would in turn make combo a worse choice.

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bawitheba
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posted September 13, 2011 11:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for bawitheba Click Here to Email bawitheba Send a private message to bawitheba Click to send bawitheba an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View bawitheba's Have/Want ListView bawitheba's Have/Want List
Way you need to ask is are they gonna ban blood moon. When we had extended. They had hypergenisis and dark depths and afinity. Then we made all in red to kill those decks or hurt them bad enough to win. Now with Philly 3-8 decks ran blood moon in side board. It hoses the format.

Will they ban
right of flame no
Vesuva no

Blood moon maybe

I hope not I love all in red.

 
harbingerofthevoid
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posted September 13, 2011 12:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for harbingerofthevoid Click Here to Email harbingerofthevoid Send a private message to harbingerofthevoid Click to send harbingerofthevoid an Instant MessageVisit harbingerofthevoid's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want ListView harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want List
They won't touch blood moon.

All the current aggro decks have ways to get around it. Post just tosses in Through the Breach. MonoU bounces/counters it. MonoB probably wouldn't even care. Most combo decks are UR any ways.

 
Kassem
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posted September 13, 2011 12:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kassem Click Here to Email Kassem Send a private message to Kassem Click to send Kassem an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malicious:
wtf. since when did motl turn people into morons who ask <snip> questions.

Since when did MOTL allow people to make replies like yours? Username fits the comment, I suppose.

He can ask whatever he wants as long as he follows the rules. No one needs to get "ripped into" on a magic forum lol.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by BoltBait on September 13, 2011]

 
Havoc Demon
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posted September 13, 2011 01:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Havoc Demon Click Here to Email Havoc Demon Send a private message to Havoc Demon Click to send Havoc Demon an Instant MessageVisit Havoc Demon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
There's a pile of single blue sorceries that should probably be looked at before Vesuva. Or unban Misstep.

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Ryoka
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posted September 13, 2011 08:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ryoka Send a private message to Ryoka Click to send Ryoka an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I expected such responses :> (but thanks to those we werent mindless jerks)

Everyone is explaining/justifying why jace was banned. I KNOW why he was banned, ie, being 32 copies in most top 8's. being too dominant...etc.

Everyone seems like an expert in hind sight. Everyone has 20/20 vision in hind sight. Funny how NO ONE opened a thread in the middle of May or June with the title "I think Jace will get banned.".

So lets not talk in hind sight. My question is asking whether Vesuva has the POTENTIAL to be banned. The reason why I'm asking is because I'd like to stock up but dont want to buy a potential risk.

Remember, as good as Jace was, he wasnt banned until almost rotation. ie, it took us 2 yrs to realise how powerful he was. Similarly, can we foresee Vesuva being busted in 2 yrs time?

(obv no1 knows for sure, I'm merely asking for opinions)

 
bawitheba
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posted September 13, 2011 08:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bawitheba Click Here to Email bawitheba Send a private message to bawitheba Click to send bawitheba an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View bawitheba's Have/Want ListView bawitheba's Have/Want List
In my opinion it will not be banned. Name the last land that has been banned. ( LOA). It's more likely they will ban emerakul than vesuva.

This is just my opinion I could be wrong.

 
Vegas10
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posted September 13, 2011 08:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
Vesuva will not get banned for several reasons
A. It come into play tapped, meaning can't even be used turn you play it unless you have another way to untap it.
B. Vesuva has to have another card in play to do anything. If there was a land so powerful to copy that it would require Vesuva to be banned they would likley just band that land ( EG.. Tolarian Academy in Urza Saga Standard).
C. It can't dominate the game all by itself, nor does it accelerate a deck on it's own to be too fast to deal with.
D. Wizards only ban cards when they feel it is absoultly necassary, to where the format becomes stale due to that cards existence, highly doubt Vesuva will reach that level.
 
choco man
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posted September 13, 2011 09:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by bawitheba:
In my opinion it will not be banned. Name the last land that has been banned. ( LOA). It's more likely they will ban emerakul than vesuva.

This is just my opinion I could be wrong.


Valakut

If they ban Cloudpost, I think they would ban Glimmerpost.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by choco man on September 13, 2011]

 
WO1Games
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posted September 13, 2011 09:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WO1Games Click Here to Email WO1Games Send a private message to WO1Games Click to send WO1Games an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm highly doubting that Vevusuva will be banned, the main reason they banned Jace 2.0 and stoneforge is due to the fact thst EVERYONE (something like %80) was running caw-blade with them, and they were winnig over half they're games and so they decided that this WAS NOT a healthy meta. The fact that this went all the way to legacy (with varying but still ridiculous result).

Thats from wizards themselves btw (not quoted but the general reasoning)

Since Vevusuva is no where close to doing this right now is why I doubt its going to be banned, just awesomely strong.

Cheers;

WO1Games

 
Ryoka
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posted September 13, 2011 10:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ryoka Send a private message to Ryoka Click to send Ryoka an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
@ the last 4 posters. YES, this is the type of constructive coversation I want to have.

A good point was brought up by choco man....who here honestly thought valakut woulda been banned in a million years? Not me. Is valakut good? Yep. But is it Jace/Stoneforge good? No. But they still banned it.

As mentioned above, I now think there would be a bigger chance of banning Cloudpost than Vasuva.

 
dicemanxx
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posted September 14, 2011 12:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dicemanxx Click Here to Email dicemanxx Send a private message to dicemanxx Click to send dicemanxx an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm gearing up to play a version of 12post once Modern tourneys hit locally. I'm operating on the presumption that the card will not be banned, nor any other critical element in the deck.

This deck is just another strong mid-range combo (mid-range=wins turns 4-5 undisrupted), but it will take a while to determine if the deck is problematic. If they even touch any element of 12-post, they would have to ban many other cards in the process to eliminate/most if not all mid range combo.

If anything is to be banned, I would think it would be a red ritual before they even consider looking in 12post's direction.

 
CubFan81
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posted September 14, 2011 05:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for CubFan81 Click Here to Email CubFan81 Send a private message to CubFan81 Click to send CubFan81 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View CubFan81's Have/Want ListView CubFan81's Have/Want List
I'm curious to see if they'll ban anything at all. As it is, Philly was the very first go at the new format and they've made it a part of Worlds as well. Bannings and unbannings would mean that it would be an entirely new format again to brew decks.

Maybe they'll let people use the information from Philly as well as Innistrad to make their adjustments and see how things look after Worlds to make changes.

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LemonMeringue
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posted September 14, 2011 06:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LemonMeringue Click Here to Email LemonMeringue Send a private message to LemonMeringue Click to send LemonMeringue an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or SaleView LemonMeringue's Trade Auction or Sale
Dang, listed rite of flame as a joke

Vesuva - won't get banned
Rite of Flame - won't get banned
Blood Moon - won't get banned
Cloudpost- won't get banned

My opinion, none of these cards seem dominant enough

 
WeedIan
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posted September 14, 2011 07:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
Ban Pyromancer!

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