Author
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Topic: People that aren't worth dealing with.
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coolio Member
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posted December 28, 2011 06:00 PM
quote: Originally posted by Demilio: I think people are too crazy w the philosophy of trading up/down. I don't know how relevant it is with a $20 card. Can you really complain about trading it down for a $10 card and two $7 cards. :/
quote: Originally posted by choco man: If you don't get why ppl don't like trading down, then accept Jtrade's offer. He's even using your preferred price guide (SCG).
i mean.. he's calling you out.. you can be the one to man up, or I dont think we can find a shoehorn big enough to help you take your foot out of your mouth. © __________________ Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong. -Christopher HitchensReligion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. -Seneca the Younger
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choco man Member
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posted December 28, 2011 06:20 PM
quote: Originally posted by coolio:
i mean.. he's calling you out.. you can be the one to man up, or I dont think we can find a shoehorn big enough to help you take your foot out of your mouth.©
Obviously, I have no problem accepting the offer that I originally posted. I used his value system and the trade wasn't a trade down for either or us. His counter-offer was ridic and was for my legacy cards. I definitely am not trading down like that. As for him referring to how he doesn't get why ppl don't "trade down" to him, I don't think I'm the MOTL'er that he's referring to. As he was the one mentioning how ppl are not offering to trade down to him, I suggested that if he didn't think trading down was an issue, he should accept Jtrade's offer. I don't why that means I have to accept demi's offer?
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coolio Member
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posted December 28, 2011 06:22 PM
quote: Originally posted by choco man: Obviously, I have no problem accepting the offer that I originally posted. I used his value system and the trade wasn't a trade down for either or us. His counter-offer was ridic and was for my legacy cards. I definitely am not trading down like that.As for him referring to how he doesn't get why ppl don't "trade down" to him, I don't think I'm the MOTL'er that he's referring to. As he was the one mentioning how ppl are not offering to trade down to him, I suggested that if he didn't think trading down was an issue, he should accept Jtrade's offer. I don't why that means I have to accept demi's offer?
not saying you have to accept his offer, i'm telling demilio he should be taking jtrade's offer too © __________________ Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong. -Christopher HitchensReligion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. -Seneca the Younger
[Edited 1 times, lastly by coolio on December 28, 2011]
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Demilio Member
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posted December 28, 2011 07:41 PM
For the record - this is choco's original offer to me.. His: Hell Caretaker foil Wargate City of Solitude Horn of Greed (pld) My: 2 Baneslayer Angel Cryptic Command My counter offer was
My: Mind Twist CE Dark Ritual CE Thrun (Foil) 2x Baneslayer Angel Cryptic Command Your: Cruel Tutor Show and Tell Wargate (foil) Horn of Green (pld) I don't see a sinkhole in there choco.. just let it rest dude, we failed to make a deal.. that's it. As far as trading down/up goes I have no problem with it. I certainly have no qualms about trading a $20 card for two $10 cards like some people do.
Jtrade's offer simply wasn't one I was interested in, I'd rather have the Jace than what he offered me.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Demilio on December 28, 2011]
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MTDetermine Member
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posted December 28, 2011 08:11 PM
Maybe we should stop the discussion on Jtrade77 and Demilio for now? When I was studying economics in high school, the textbook state something along the line that money was created because bartar trade is not easy most of the time. My very limited MTG Bartar Trade experience testify to that. I estimate that my cash trades (cash purchase of MTG cards, or cash sales of MTG cards) outweigh my card trades by a ratio of at least 100:1, perhaps even 200-300:1. Using cash to buy is really easier. Even for card trades, I find that having a clearly defined point system (how much you value your card, and how much you value other cards) helps a lot, if your point system is fair to start with. People have different guages of "fair" but at least for me, I think a good starting point is MOTL Price guide.
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rockondon Member
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posted December 28, 2011 09:22 PM
The problem with point systems is that they do not incorporate the concept of trading up. Its only natural that people will add up lots of points via small cards in order to trade for your big ones, thus the points have to be in the favor of the one who posted the point system. And its also natural that people will complain about it. I considered making a points system where each additional card used would penalize the total points value of the person doing the bidding. For example, one $50 card would be worth 50 points and five $10 cards would be worth 46 points. But that's kinda complicated and everybody would ignore the rules and complain at me when I don't give up something big for their $2 cards. __________________ |My Angels~My P9 l""|"\__, |~~My #1 Angel~~l'_|'_|_|) |(@)(@)""***|(@)(@)**|(@)
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Lord Crovax Member
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posted December 28, 2011 09:38 PM
quote: Originally posted by rockondon: The problem with point systems is that they do not incorporate the concept of trading up. Its only natural that people will add up lots of points via small cards in order to trade for your big ones, thus the points have to be in the favor of the one who posted the point system. And its also natural that people will complain about it. I considered making a points system where each additional card used would penalize the total points value of the person doing the bidding. For example, one $50 card would be worth 50 points and five $10 cards would be worth 46 points. But that's kinda complicated and everybody would ignore the rules and complain at me when I don't give up something big for their $2 cards.
Meh this is something people do point list or not....
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MTDetermine Member
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posted December 28, 2011 09:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by rockondon: The problem with point systems is that they do not incorporate the concept of trading up. Its only natural that people will add up lots of points via small cards in order to trade for your big ones, thus the points have to be in the favor of the one who posted the point system. And its also natural that people will complain about it. I considered making a points system where each additional card used would penalize the total points value of the person doing the bidding. For example, one $50 card would be worth 50 points and five $10 cards would be worth 46 points. But that's kinda complicated and everybody would ignore the rules and complain at me when I don't give up something big for their $2 cards.
My view is, if you do not want small cards, then leave them out of your point system, or limit their quantity, or give the small cards smaller point allocation. It is unfair for an interested party to compile a trade offer based on a point system only to be told "Sorry, too many small cards in your offer".
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scrubby Member
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posted December 29, 2011 12:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by AGO: Thats all I see with points list. What get me is the list is already in there favor but they stil won't trade down. I think Slinga was the only person I have seen who would do a trade if the points matched up. Also I think I am going to scream if I see another list with decked cards. Ran across this one today and tried to complete a trade but got shot down because he over values his Thrun.
STUFF THAT IS DECKED SECTION:
This is my section of good stuff that is decked. For me to trade the legacy stuff, you should be offering stuff like Dual Lands, Moat, and my other out of print wants. I won't trade this stuff down, unless it's wayyyy in my favor. Some of it isn't really expensive but trading out of decks is a pain since I have to replace it. 1 Taiga 1 Savannah 1 Italian Karakas 2 Grindstone 4 Enlightened Tutor (3 MI, 1 6th) 3 Orim's Chant 4 Argothian Enchantress 2 Serra's Sanctum 2 Replenish (1 japanese) 3 Elspeth Tirel (1 japanese) 3 Hero of Bladehold (2 foil promo,1 italian) 1 Thrun, The Last Troll (japanese) 1 Garruk Relentless 4 Swords to Plowshares 2 Wrath of God
You know some of us read this forum right? I list decked cards because for some of my bigger wants noone is going to want my binder stuff. I will(and have, recently!) trade stuff from my decks so I can get something harder to find(for instance, traded of my Heros in a deal for a Sword, and my Liliana). Since we are being so open, here is the offer he gave me: 2 Phyrexian Arena 2 Blinkmoth Nexus 4 Blightning 1 Disenchant (FBB 4th) 2 Beast Within for your thrun the last troll japanese Angelic Destiny A trading pet peeve of MINE is the fact that I specifically state that I probably value my decked card higher, and will ask for value if trading down. If you're not willing to trade in my favor on them, why ignore what I said, make a bad offer anyway, and then bitch about it in another thread on the same website? By the way, this trade is in YOUR favor by about 8 bucks.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by scrubby on December 29, 2011]
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choco man Member
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posted December 29, 2011 02:01 AM
My bad, cruel tutor instead of sinkhole. Your offer wasn't even bad (like the Jtrade offer). But if you're going to use SCG as your value Bible, why would you stiff me $6 going by your own guide?but why let it rest? where else can MOTL'ers rant about this kind of stuff?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by choco man on December 29, 2011]
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wayne Member
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posted December 29, 2011 04:22 AM
quote: Originally posted by stu55: The worst is people who post on a sales list and when you pull the cards for them, they never reply...
Well, you PMed me after I once posted on your sales list and did not respond to future PMs to confirm the deal. Anyway, personally I am not perfect, no one is, I try to respond to all posts PMs and emails, but it is hard to keep track of all these and I even have a rule on my hw list which states that members can remind me if I forget to respond. When one is busy with non Magic matters, responding just tumbles down the list of priorities, especially when it is not a concrete offer. *waits for rats60 to attack me about that time I made a bad offer
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hilikuS Member
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posted December 29, 2011 05:42 AM
A trade offer isn't a personal attack on your intelligence. There's like 50,000 members on the site, find another trade!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on December 29, 2011]
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MAB_Rapper Member
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posted December 29, 2011 06:45 AM
The worst is people who simply do not rules of a sales list. My bigger peeve is that I spefically say that I will not do any discussions via PM (mostly because data can be lost easy and I used to not be able to use them), and I get PMs for deals.Don't get me wrong, searching for a bunch of cards and then not having a response stinks more than anything, but it's the risk you take when it is not your sales/buy list. Lastly, yes, I do admit that I do this one, of not responding to every post on my own list. Most of the time, it's the same cards people are going for and I looks at size of the deal and first come/first serve concepts. But hell I admit it, I have a real job and a life, and you do just miss posts from time to time. It happens.
quote: Originally posted by hilikuS: A trade offer isn't a personal attack on your intelligence. There's like 50,000 members on the site, find another trade!
This +1,000,000 __________________ MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009 (My Nationals) The Official Tower Magic Facebook Page
[Edited 1 times, lastly by MAB_Rapper on December 29, 2011]
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I3Iood Member
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posted January 19, 2012 08:07 AM
Here is a member that 100% is not worth dealing with. I would not accept them free from him at this point. It seams other members here agree with me.The user is paragondave - Terribly rude and calls names and swears. quote: Originally posted by MTDetermine: I3Iood, don't worry about him. He likes to ask for high prices and when people make counteroffer, he screams "lowball" and starts shouting like a kid.[/B]
Here is a msg string from the last day with him. me: ----- Original Message ----- It seams like people are busting down the door to purchase the horrible precons you have for sale.... paragondave: ----- Original Message ----- lol, well at least one idiot is! Me: ----- Original Message ----- Are you 12? "idiot"? wow. paragondave: ----- Original Message ----- ok, you win, I'll accept your offer. Me: Sent an email with the offer I pm'd him. then his reply: paragondave: I have no interest in your offer or ever dealing with you. Kindly f@#k off now. Please note the email was not censored.
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JoshSherman Member
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posted January 19, 2012 09:07 AM
I've noted that Dave can be brash while perusing the BTA forum, however, I've also not ever noted a time where he was completely out of line. Is there more to this story than meets the eye?__________________ *My LJ*Letter Bombs!*Facebook*Logout- I had it second!*CKGB
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Bagbokk Member
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posted January 19, 2012 09:43 AM
quote: Originally posted by JoshSherman: I've noted that Dave can be brash while perusing the BTA forum, however, I've also not ever noted a time where he was completely out of line. Is there more to this story than meets the eye?
IIRC, it's I3Iood offering him lower prices on his sales list and his reaction to it. I think you can find the original stuff on his sale list (if it hasn't been deleted/remade). The frequency of BTA posts from him awhile back concern me a little bit but they're all valid so it's not really a problem.
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I3Iood Member
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posted January 19, 2012 10:45 AM
quote: Originally posted by Bagbokk: IIRC, it's I3Iood offering him lower prices on his sales list and his reaction to it. I think you can find the original stuff on his sale list (if it hasn't been deleted/remade). The frequency of BTA posts from him awhile back concern me a little bit but they're all valid so it's not really a problem.
He threatened me with a BTA today, and I was like I did nothing wrong. There was never anything said about a BTA from me, so I am not sure where he is getting that from. Here is the email msg from him: quote: paragondave: Be sure you post these PMs in your BTA thread because you know I will; get a clue. I have no interest in dealing with you. ----- Original Message ----- Email Sent. ----- Original Message ----- ok, you win, I'll accept your offer. ----- Original Message ----- Are you 12? "idiot"? wow. ----- Original Message ----- lol, well at least one idiot is! ----- Original Message ----- It seams like people are busting down the door to purchase the horrible precons you have for sale....
I sent him this email.
quote: Blood: Not sure what you are threatening me for. I did nothing wrong here. You are the one who said you accept my offer and you are the one who was swearing and calling names. I sure did post them in the do not deal with this person thread. The community will decide for themselves.
Again he is saying something about a BTA in his response email. quote: paragondave: Refresh my memory...where did I threaten you? And if you are going to get used to being an ass, you should get used to people swearing at you. I am sure I am not the first. Who is 12? You go right ahead and post in the BTA, but be sure to read the rules first and be sure to include the PMs because as I said, I sure will. Have a great day!
Then, after I DID NOT RESPOND AT ALL TO HIS LAST EMAIL, he sent this email:
quote: paragondave: Hey, know what? I'll still accept your offer, but now I have to charge a $40 handling fee. Sorry! Enjoy! oh yeah and Have a great day! buh-bye now.
And yes I posted this offer on his thread for all to know, as I have nothing to hide. quote: Originally posted by I3Iood: I know it is a lowball offer, but if you really want to get rid of these, I can give $4 each on all of them if interested. If not free bump.1x sealed PLANESHIFT Comeback~ $7.50 -->$4.00 1x sealed ODYSSEY Liftoff~ $7.50 -->$4.00 1x sealed ONSLAUGHT Bait and Switch~ $7.50 -->$4.00 1x sealed LEGIONS Morph Mayhem~ $7 -->$4.00 1x sealed SCOURGE Max Attack~ $6 -->$4.00 1x sealed SCOURGE Pulverize~ $6 -->$4.00 1x sealed SCOURGE Storm Surge~ $6 -->$4.00 1x sealed FUTURESIGHT Fate Blaster~ $6 -->$4.00 1x sealed FUTURESIGHT Rebels Unite~ $6 -->$4.00
http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/089497.html No where was I rude at all in that post. If he did not like it, he could have just moved on. If you look at online and ebay prices, his are the same as stores, and I think the chances of him moving these is very low, so I decided to post an offer. I just want them to run a stupid for fun precon tourney. It is no problem if I do not get them. His attitude is DOWNRIGHT UNACCEPTABLE to me, and I hope other people see this and decide that he may not be worth dealing with. I have all 5s for every trade I have made on here and never opened a BTA or had a BTA opened against me. If anyone else feels I am hard to work with, I would love to hear it. A member I had a deal with last month forgot to send and I emailed him a month later asking for the package and it was at his house, and I said no problem, just throw it in the mail, mistakes happen. I guess when you act like a 12 year old, then that is how you should expect to be treated. To each his own. Jason
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Bagbokk Member
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posted January 19, 2012 10:59 AM
quote: He threatened me with a BTA today, and I was like I did nothing wrong. There was never anything said about a BTA from me, so I am not sure where he is getting that from.
I think he thought you were threatening him with a BTA when you said: "You are the one who said you accept my offer and you are the one who was swearing and calling names. I sure did post them in the do not deal with this person thread." I'm not sure he knows about this thread and may have thought you meant the BTA forum. I don't think he threatened to post you on the BTA anywhere though. quote: No where was I rude at all in that post. If he did not like it, he could have just moved on.
I agree though.
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daner Member
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posted January 19, 2012 11:03 AM
quote: Originally posted by JoshSherman: I've also not ever noted a time where he was completely out of line.
You must have missed the BTA case he had against me years ago were he actually insulted my mother. He can be completely out of line, and very harsh. I just try to stay out of his way although we have done deals since. Usually him contacting me, not vice versa.
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fluffycow Member
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posted January 19, 2012 11:06 AM
quote: Originally posted by I3Iood: He threatened me with a BTA today, and I was like I did nothing wrong. There was never anything said about a BTA from me, so I am not sure where he is getting that from. Here is the email msg from him:I sent him this email. Again he is saying something about a BTA in his response email. Then, after I DID NOT RESPOND AT ALL TO HIS LAST EMAIL, he sent this email: And yes I posted this offer on his thread for all to know, as I have nothing to hide.
http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/089497.html No where was I rude at all in that post. If he did not like it, he could have just moved on. If you look at online and ebay prices, his are the same as stores, and I think the chances of him moving these is very low, so I decided to post an offer. I just want them to run a stupid for fun precon tourney. It is no problem if I do not get them. His attitude is DOWNRIGHT UNACCEPTABLE to me, and I hope other people see this and decide that he may not be worth dealing with. I have all 5s for every trade I have made on here and never opened a BTA or had a BTA opened against me. If anyone else feels I am hard to work with, I would love to hear it. A member I had a deal with last month forgot to send and I emailed him a month later asking for the package and it was at his house, and I said no problem, just throw it in the mail, mistakes happen. I guess when you act like a 12 year old, then that is how you should expect to be treated. To each his own. Jason
I wouldn't worry too much about it. People get offended too easily sometimes. He's probably a lot better than a couple years ago when he would remind you to use common sense afer every statement. I see his point in being mad that you that your offers were around 60% of what he wanted, and it's your fault for responding with anything other than "I am sorry we can't make a deal this time, but maybe some other time"
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I3Iood Member
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posted January 19, 2012 11:20 AM
quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: I see his point in being mad that you that your offers were around 60% of what he wanted, and it's your fault for responding with anything other than "I am sorry we can't make a deal this time, but maybe some other time"
I am sorry you feel that it is my fault that he acts like a child. No where was I rude at all or did I provoke him at all. There were 4 or 5 pms that happened in the last week, before the ones today, that were not posted that he sent to me that were the same tone. Here is one. quote: There are if YOU buy from ME. ----- Original Message ----- There are not $20 in handling charges. Jason----- Original Message ----- you posted; You can ship this for under $10 in a flat rate box. I can pay $10 shipping, let me know. Jason
As you can see, it was his childish behavior that was unacceptable. It really perplexes me that you would say it is my fault.
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Speed Demon Banned
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posted January 19, 2012 12:35 PM
quote: Originally posted by rockondon: The problem with point systems is that they do not incorporate the concept of trading up. Its only natural that people will add up lots of points via small cards in order to trade for your big ones, thus the points have to be in the favor of the one who posted the point system. And its also natural that people will complain about it. I considered making a points system where each additional card used would penalize the total points value of the person doing the bidding. For example, one $50 card would be worth 50 points and five $10 cards would be worth 46 points. But that's kinda complicated and everybody would ignore the rules and complain at me when I don't give up something big for their $2 cards.
Listen, I understand the logistics of trading up. Especially when it comes to standard chaff that will eventually tank (hero of bladehold, swords, elspeth, liliana.. etc)
But cash is king. Don't be insulted when you get an offer of $50 for $50. A JTMS sells for $48 NM. There should be no reason why anyone should give anybody $60 for it (assuming $10+ cards and not like $1 cards). If someone is offering 48 $1 cards for JTMS, then sure, that's annoying and you'd want more. but if you can get the $48 relatively quickly with other cards you're getting, there should be zero reason/value one is trading up. (And if you're a heavy trader IRL, 5 $10 cards will go a lot farther than a $50 card will).
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Speed Demon on January 19, 2012]
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fluffycow Member
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posted January 19, 2012 01:11 PM
quote: Originally posted by I3Iood: I am sorry you feel that it is my fault that he acts like a child. No where was I rude at all or did I provoke him at all. There were 4 or 5 pms that happened in the last week, before the ones today, that were not posted that he sent to me that were the same tone. Here is one.[QUOTE]There are if YOU buy from ME. ----- Original Message ----- There are not $20 in handling charges. Jason ----- Original Message ----- you posted; You can ship this for under $10 in a flat rate box. I can pay $10 shipping, let me know. Jason
As you can see, it was his childish behavior that was unacceptable. It really perplexes me that you would say it is my fault.[/QUOTE] I don't mean it's your fault in the sense that you started it or that you deserved it, but more in the sense that you took it personally and you should have just let it go and moved it instead of arguing with him. I make lots of offers on lists, some people think it's acceptable while others find it insulting even though I am making the same offer. If someone thinks you are a schmuck for an offer today doesn't mean you can't do business another day. just my two cents
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slurpee Member
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posted January 19, 2012 01:43 PM
I never mind people making offers, but you have to back it up for a reason. The "I just feel that is what it is worth" is not a good reason.
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