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"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Shocklands, Angel of Despair, Spell Snare (so glad I resisted trading for these), Dark Confidant, signets, etc.

Ravnica has plenty of juicy reprint options.

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Let's hope that this bus goes somewhere beyond just a lame "reprint" city.

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
What what are you basing your hopes on, exactly? If Hook really is a return to Ravnica, then that would seem to legitimate a hope for shocklands, but Jace...?

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
Source? Or is this a rumor?

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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=406342

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Originally posted by choco man:
Let's hope that this bus goes somewhere beyond just a lame "reprint" city.

Shocklands are fine (they're the main appeal), but please....no reason to reprint anything just b/c it was good/playable.

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Uh, playability is the primary reason a card should be considered for reprinting. Secondly, its been established for quite some time that the eternal formats depend on reprints in order to maintain interest in the format, as well as keeping the price barrier to entry under control. As I said earlier, plenty of modern staples have become rather expensive, which hinders enthusiasm and participation for the format. WotC makes absolutely nothing off the secondary market, so it in their best interests to maintain a healthy supply of in-demand cards for the playerbase.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
U Secondly, its been established for quite some time that the eternal formats depend on reprints in order to maintain interest in the format, as well as keeping the price barrier to entry under control.... so it in their best interests to maintain a healthy supply of in-demand cards for the playerbase.

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Elaborate. I dare you. What legacy staples have been reprinted in standard sets? Stop making things up.

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[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

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Originally posted by thror:
Elaborate. I dare you. What legacy staples have been reprinted in standard sets? Stop making things up.

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Originally posted by gaeacradle:
I don't think he meant that it actually happened. I think he meant that's what people have always wanted. And that's why WOTC created Modern - an Eternal format where they can reprint staples without fear of the reserved list.

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Yes. Also, grim lavamancer, smallpox, and some common stuff like ponder and lightning bolt. But your premise is a strawman argument in the first place, because if the high-priced tourney staples didn't need a reprint, then they wouldn't be high-priced to begin with...

Hell, arguments have been made that EDH became popular largely because people wanted to use their older cards in a semi-competitive environment without breaking the bank in the process.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Uh, playability is the primary reason a card should be considered for reprinting. Secondly, its been established for quite some time that the eternal formats depend on reprints in order to maintain interest in the format, as well as keeping the price barrier to entry under control. As I said earlier, plenty of modern staples have become rather expensive, which hinders enthusiasm and participation for the format. WotC makes absolutely nothing off the secondary market, so it in their best interests to maintain a healthy supply of in-demand cards for the playerbase.

@dwiz- seems short-sighted. Many iterations of planeswalkers is far from a bad thing, since it establishes the evolution of a primary character along the course of the storyline, and gives players new mechanics on familiar walkers.

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If you take a look at what actually gets reprinted, it's not as if every new set is just a set of all-star cards from old sets. Playability is only part of the context with which cards get selected for reprinting (after all, they slected Reflecting Pool and not City of Brass).

People complaining about Modern being expensive bc of shock lands, need to look at standard where Seachrome/darkslick are asking rav-dual level prices. People complaining about prices will always do so whether staples are $1/$5/$10/etc. Did you realize that on some level having expensive cards is actually good for the game? There is a really inexpensive game where no luck is involved called Chess. See how successful financially it is for its founders.

If your going to bring Wotc's profit motives into the picture, you will see that reprints aren't the type of things that brjng in the largest portion of profits. It's new cards (eg Walletslayer Angel, Jace the Wallet Sculptor) that bring in the big bucks. Looking back on the whole thing, it was designing and printing rav-duals instead of reusing the abu-duals that sold packs. You are mistaken if you think it's in wotc's best Interest to reprint stuff. It might be in your personally interests or players who want cheaper cards. Wotc uses a lot of equity when they reprint stuff. It's wise to do so judiciously.

Ravnica was a great block for every format, extremely playable from top to bottom. Does that mean reprinting every card that was playable in constructed is a good idea? Or even most of the cards? Or even a lot of the cards? I think reprinting Meddling Mage was a huge slap in the face. Solemn Simulacrum less so, bc jens isn't very well known. Bob is another level though. The guy is so well known, the card is called "Bob."

Right now, it's not difficult to get ahold of a playset of Bob, or goyf. Expensive, maybe, but not difficult. But every year that Bob and goyf don't see a reprint, it becomes progressively difficult to aquire those cards. The extreme end of the spectrum is P9, where the sheer rarity of the cards make aquiring competitive vintage cards difficult for competitive tournaments, hence the lack of a playerbase for vintage. Legacy is only beginning to suffer this - the most relevant example being high tide, where a playset of candelabras can be impossible for most players to aquire, regardless of budget.

WotC has 2 ways to combat this problem. A) Reprint necessary staples to maintain reasonable market supply, or B) print something better that fufills/exceeds the niche of former staple cards. Cards like Scavenging Ooze and Delver have altered the legacy metagame to the point where new players aren't completely jacked when it comes to carrying over their card pool into the eternal formats. Obviously, there are still barriers to entry, and I'm sure WotC has a long-term plan to address the issue of ABU duals down the road.

EDIT- Had to respond to this specifically -

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Originally posted by choco man:
If you take a look at what actually gets reprinted, it's not as if every new set is just a set of all-star cards from old sets. Playability is only part of the context with which cards get selected for reprinting (after all, they slected Reflecting Pool and not City of Brass).

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
It's certainly going to lower the price of the shocklands, but your argument is short-sighted, and I'll elaborate on that.

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Well, can you elaborate on the fact that you don't need a playset of Candelabras to play Legacy? Or that some successful legacy decks are similar in cost to standard decks (esp when you consider rav era decks with 12 shocks), or the 20 mythic rare conscription deck).

And since money truly is the reason why players play or don't play Legacy...have you considered the reason(s) why Legacy wasn't a heavily played format when ABU-duals and FOW were cheap?

Believe it or not, Modern is not a heavily adopted format beyond MTGO right now. Whether you think Modern cards are accessible or not (and they are), people don't play it much outside of GP's and PTQ's (and even the PTQ numbers aren't that great) because it's not a FNM format. It's difficult to trade rav-duals in my LGS. When they reprint them, it'll be easier for me to do so. I don't think they'll lower in price that much...if you check 'em out, they finish at auction for probably lower than what you're thinking. Some staple cards in Standard are more expensive.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
No one said all-stars, I simply said playable. To illustrate my point - nantuko shade was a reprint that flopped in M11 because it ended up being unplayable, despite it's pedigree as a powerhouse card back in it's original standard run. By the same token, reflecting pool was a successful reprint precisely because it became standard staple again in lorwyn's standard run.

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"No one said all-stars." Really?

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Shocklands, Angel of Despair, Spell Snare (so glad I resisted trading for these), Dark Confidant, signets, etc.

Ravnica has plenty of juicy reprint options.

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What is the purpose of you hoping for a Spell Snare reprint, exactly? Your entire comment was in the context of reprinting expensive (all-star) stuff you want to "hold-out" on buying.

Your post doesn't exactly elaborate on any particular rubric for reprint. You just single out an very unplayable reprint (Shade) and compare it to a very heavily played reprint (Pool). I only brought up Reflecting Pool to prove to show that WOTC isn't out to simply reprint cards playable on power. If they did that, they would have reprinted ABU duals earlier. Or rather just City of Brass before Pool.

If you paid attention to Wotc R&D, you'd probably should have stopped hoping for signet reprints awhile ago. They are admittedly a mistake, giving any U/x/y deck a 2-color Rampant Growth effect.

I think shocklands are great for reprints. But more so for Standard than anything else. Mana-fixing has dropped off heavily since 1-2 years ago. It's very difficult to play non-allied color pairs without resorting to a 3-color wedge.

WOTC's judicious level of reprints is much better than the mob-mentality of online posters (MTGSalvation in particular). The online mob just clamors for reprints every set for anything/everything over any arbitrary amount of dollars.

Going back to Ravnica is a great thing for MTG. But only if it's not simply a Ravnica vers 2. The same way Scars of Mirrodin wasn't simply Mirrodin vers 2. If the only way WOTC sees fit to reprint shocks is through Ravnica, so be it.

I don't understand the delusion that ppl have that reprints always good or that WOTC even needs to reprint cards in order to profitably foster MTG. I mean, you didn't even address that the truth that the money for WOTC is making new cards not reprinting old cards. People who post wanting reprints more often than not are really just people who don't want to buy cards or can't buy cards and don't really care about the game beyond their own ability to play and obtain cards necessary to play the game.

Eternal staples are, by definition, playable cards. It would take a rather unique meta in which a current legacy staple would be considered unplayable in the standard meta. To reinforce that point, even if a card WAS deemed unworthy in standard, WotC would be praised for printing a card that has obvious value in an established format.

Secondly, arguing that it's OK for candelabra's to be 150 a pop because JoeFNM can sleeve up a couple PDS Fire and Lightning decks is a strawman argument. The real issue is having the majority of the value of any given legacy deck tied up in a manabase that is on the reserved list. It sets up legacy for a slow death without some sort of intervention from WotC.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
So, Shocks as rares or mythics?

Mythics

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Rares, they've only printed one mythic rare land and it was legendary, flavored and narrow.

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Originally posted by Vegas10:
When WOTC revisted Mirridon, there wasn't a ton of reprints, so I doubt they will do that in this set either, there maybe a few, and maybe M13 has some to set up for this block (I think Rav duals are more likley in M13, so they can print them all together, instead of releasing them per guild, unless of course they decide not to do the set by guilds this time and just have all the guilds in all the sets). If all the good cards are reprints the sales will suffer due to people already having them, this is why the base set started putting all new cards in and sales have improved rather than having the base set as all reprints like before.

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Shocks wont' be in core sets because of the life loss, which is why pains got cut (damage) because new players don't understand at first that life loss for something can be ok.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
So, Shocks as rares or mythics?

Mythics

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facepalm.

Also, lol @ the general assumption by people that ravnica correlates in any way, shape, or form with shockland reprints. They gave them nonspecific names so they can be reprinted in any core set or expert expansion at the drop of a hat. While it's not impossible for them to reprint the shocklands in the coming fall expansion, it has nothing to do with whether or not it's setting-appropriate.