he gave you a quote on the shipping and you didn't want to pay it. He didn't refuse to sell it to you, I am sure if he had mailed it the label would have been close to the amount he told you so it is not like he was making money off of the deal. He has every right to relist the item, because I am pretty sure you told him you were not going to pay his shipping amount and he figures if that is the case he needs to resell the item. Now should you pay it and he sells the other then he is in a tough spot, but I feel you left out the part where you told him you weren't going to pay...(I could be wrong, but to me I think you can infer it from your post)

Were there cheaper options sure, can you ship a padded envelope to Canada even by regular mail for 1.64... NOPE. Was he putting Insurance or tracking on it, none of us really know, but he got the number from somewhere and it was probably from the post office. The cheapest USPS route which would have satisfied ebay and paypal was 15.00. I think many of us feel you wouldn't have paid that.

You have a lot of refs here and you know what works and what doesn't for mail from the USA to satisfy paypal, ebay, or even MOTL.

This whole send to a 3rd party stuff doesn't work on ebay and paypal. Heck it doesn't work on MOTL unless both parties agree to it. Even then there are not lists of people on ebay like here that are trusted 3rd parties. Can anyone honestly on here say they would mail cards to someone they don't know, perhaps is not even a member of MOTL, recommended by the receiving end, and go along with it...PROBABLY NOT...Then why would you expect this guy to as well...There is a reason most people expect people with 0 feedback to send first...

Assuming you are in the right and he didn't want to sell it because it sold for less than the value. You could have paid the shipping amount and if he did overcharge you on the shipping bring it up. I don't feel he was responsible for paying for the extra shipping amount because you didn't want to pay it. I don't see anywhere in your posts does he say he is upset it didn't sell for more.

The fact that you left a negative after you took the time to share all of this guys personal info with all of the MOTL community is wrong... I am sure if people started just making posts and saying hey here is all of Ryan info and stuff I know about him, that people would get really upset...as this stuff usually only comes up on BTA's and even then people don't go hey here is Mom's phone, Boss's phone, the school they attend.... I am not sure if you have broken the privacy agreement with ebay or not, but that is not for me to judge.

quote:

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Originally posted by slurpee:
Stuff

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Bottom line: the guy should have done research before talking about shipping to CA, first, and second (and imo more importantly) the guy apparently relisted the same item at a much higher price which basically confirms Ryan's suspicions that it's not the shipping, but the buy price that was the reason fro the difficulty.

quote:

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Originally posted by walkerdog:
the guy relisted the same item at a much higher price which basically confirms Ryan's suspicions that it's not the shipping, but the buy price that was the reason fro the difficulty.

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This...

quote:

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Originally posted by walkerdog:
Bottom line: the guy should have done research before talking about shipping to CA, first, and second (and imo more importantly) the guy apparently relisted the same item at a much higher price which basically confirms Ryan's suspicions that it's not the shipping, but the buy price that was the reason fro the difficulty.

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1000% Agree with this. He wasn't happy with the price it was sold for.

quote:

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Originally posted by marvinc023:
1000% Agree with this. He wasn't happy with the price it was sold for.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
And the OP only wants the auction to get the card cheap. He refused to pay the proper shipping. So how's he any different? I recently bought some stuff from Japan and it cost me 50.00 shipping. If you want cheap shipping, buy from sellers in your own country.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
And the OP only wants the auction to get the card cheap. He refused to pay the proper shipping. So how's he any different? I recently bought some stuff from Japan and it cost me 50.00 shipping. If you want cheap shipping, buy from sellers in your own country.

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quote:

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Originally posted by walkerdog:
Sort of, sure... but he didn't break the rules (a.e. re-listing that quickly when the sale still occurred) like the seller did, who also said he'd ship to Canada, then didn't investigate his shipping options. Seller needs at least 1 bad feedback if he's pulling crap like that (relisting at... 50+ higher, right?). If it just didn't work out, I wouldn't be big on the bad feedback, but the seller's actions indicate it's more than "just not working out."

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Sellers actions yell, I wont let this work out, bet anything if the buyer was willing to pay shipping, seller would have found a new reason not to sell.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Sellers actions yell, I wont let this work out, bet anything if the buyer was willing to pay shipping, seller would have found a new reason not to sell.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
And the OP only wants the auction to get the card cheap. He refused to pay the proper shipping. So how's he any different? I recently bought some stuff from Japan and it cost me 50.00 shipping. If you want cheap shipping, buy from sellers in your own country.

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Hell yes he was trying to get the card for cheap, isn't that what Ebay is for? He refused to pay a VERY unreasonable shipping charge. The guy could have shipped the card, with registered shipping which also comes with $100 insurance, for $15.

Ryan told him this. He still refused to sell Ryan the card. He offered to give him a US addy, mine. The guy still refused because he wouldn't send to an unverified address... my address IS Paypal verified.

What it comes down to, is the guy didn't want to sell the card for $87. That's it, and he PROVED that was the case by listing the card at a starting price that was about $50 higher than Ryan won it for.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Hell yes he was trying to get the card for cheap, isn't that what Ebay is for? He refused to pay a VERY unreasonable shipping charge. The guy could have shipped the card, with registered shipping which also comes with $100 insurance, for $15.

Ryan told him this. He still refused to sell Ryan the card. He offered to give him a US addy, mine. The guy still refused because he wouldn't send to an unverified address... my address IS Paypal verified.

What it comes down to, is the guy didn't want to sell the card for $87. That's it, and he PROVED that was the case by listing the card at a starting price that was about $50 higher than Ryan won it for.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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On the address, it's not verified/unverified, it's literally that you cannot ship to an address that is different from the one that the buyer provided when he paid for the item, if you want seller protection to apply.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Hell yes he was trying to get the card for cheap, isn't that what Ebay is for? He refused to pay a VERY unreasonable shipping charge. The guy could have shipped the card, with registered shipping which also comes with $100 insurance, for $15.

Ryan told him this. He still refused to sell Ryan the card. He offered to give him a US addy, mine. The guy still refused because he wouldn't send to an unverified address... my address IS Paypal verified.

What it comes down to, is the guy didn't want to sell the card for $87. That's it, and he PROVED that was the case by listing the card at a starting price that was about $50 higher than Ryan won it for.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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Except the shipping charge IS NOT UNREASONABLE. Certified doesn't come with tracking. I posted earlier that I had a friend that lost a chargeback with Paypal when he sent registered. I don't blame the guy for not wanting to lose his card. The same thing with sending to a different address. Ryan was too cheap to pay the proper shipping amount for the card, so the guy has every right to relist the card.

Maybe you don't have much experience with Ebay/Paypal, but Ryan is the one who is wrong here. Notice how several people who sell cards on Ebay have said the same thing. They have their own policies which are 100% slanted to the buyer. The seller has to protect himself.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pail42:
In the seller's defense we don't know if Ryan notified him of the ~$15 option - at least we don't know from this thread. Also, just judging from the eBay 'experts' in this thread, you can't ship to a PayPal address that isn't of the person who makes the payment.

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Actually, I do know that. He was in #MOTL and we were all talking about it. He showed me the message he sent.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
Except the shipping charge IS NOT UNREASONABLE. Certified doesn't come with tracking. I posted earlier that I had a friend that lost a chargeback with Paypal when he sent registered. I don't blame the guy for not wanting to lose his card. The same thing with sending to a different address. Ryan was too cheap to pay the proper shipping amount for the card, so the guy has every right to relist the card.

Maybe you don't have much experience with Ebay/Paypal, but Ryan is the one who is wrong here. Notice how several people who sell cards on Ebay have said the same thing. They have their own policies which are 100% slanted to the buyer. The seller has to protect himself.

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I didn't say to send certified. I said to send registered mail, there's a difference and it comes with $100 insurance, automatically, so if the package WAS lost, for some odd reason, the insurance would be paid for.

I don't know why each time I've said to send with registered mail, someone says that certified mail isn't tracking. Registered mail is NOT certified mail, it's registered and it's trackable.

So, yes, the shipping was unreasonable, as was the seller. I'm all for protecting yourself! But he could have had just as much protection with registered mail, as with sending priority with insurance only.

The several people you're talking about, said they'd send with tracking, and always with tracking, when dealing with Ebay. The solution that I provided was sending with tracking, there's no argument there..

As for the address thing, I get stuff all the time from people who are buying from Ebay (from other countries) and have them shipped to me, but if what you said is true, I don't know how they do it then.. ?

EDIT: It's like saying that he's going to charge you $8.55 for shipping to a US address, because he wants to send with tracking and says that only priority with insurance will do it..

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

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So, yes, the shipping was unreasonable, as was the seller. I'm all for protecting yourself! But he could have had just as much protection with registered mail, as with sending priority with insurance only.

The several people you're talking about, said they'd send with tracking, and always with tracking, when dealing with Ebay. The solution that I provided was sending with tracking, there's no argument there..

EDIT: It's like saying that he's going to charge you $8.55 for shipping to a US address, because he wants to send with tracking and says that only priority with insurance will do it..

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Here's the problem--and this is working from the pre-relisting standpoint where it's not "obvious" that the seller was just out to get more money: Would you trust a random buyer on eBay to tell you how to ship cards? If I've never shipped internationally and I stand to lose $100, I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd go to eBay and the USPS and to people I trust to tell me what the options are. If they tell me the cheapest option is to ship Global Priority with insurance and it's $29.15 I'm not going to trust a buyer that tells me there's an option that costs 1/2 as much.

The $8.55 within the US analogy doesn't make sense because eBay shipping specifically provides for first-class mail with delivery confirmation which satisfies its requirements for seller protection (up to $250 anyway, after that you need to get signature confirmation). Not so for registered mail internationally.

quote:

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As for the address thing, I get stuff all the time from people who are buying from Ebay (from other countries) and have them shipped to me, but if what you said is true, I don't know how they do it then.. ?

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When push comes to shove and the buyer doesn't get the cards or something is wrong, the seller has zero defense. The seller wouldn't win with paypal. I think what many of us are saying is:

1. Yes there are cheaper ways
2. Some of the cheaper ways don't fully protect the seller
3. The seller doesn't know you and has no reason to trust you.
4. Ryan didn't/hasn't shared all of the facts but shares the points that paint the seller in a negative light. Heck he comes here for advice and then has the nerve to call some of us Morons....
5. Did the card sell for less then its value yes, was the seller trying to get more out of it, perhaps or perhaps not as the seller never comes out and says he should have gotten more. Yes he relisted it for more then it sold for and sure makes it appear that he is upset it sold for less, but he did give Ryan a quote for shipping. He didn't have to do that, he could have just said I won't ship to Canada and that would have been that.

When the seller feels like the buyer isn't going to pay they have the right to relist the item. happens all the time especially on large value collections/cards.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Actually, I do know that. He was in #MOTL and we were all talking about it. He showed me the message he sent.

I didn't say to send certified. I said to send registered mail, there's a difference and it comes with $100 insurance, automatically, so if the package WAS lost, for some odd reason, the insurance would be paid for.

I don't know why each time I've said to send with registered mail, someone says that certified mail isn't tracking. Registered mail is NOT certified mail, it's registered and it's trackable.

So, yes, the shipping was unreasonable, as was the seller. I'm all for protecting yourself! But he could have had just as much protection with registered mail, as with sending priority with insurance only.

The several people you're talking about, said they'd send with tracking, and always with tracking, when dealing with Ebay. The solution that I provided was sending with tracking, there's no argument there..

As for the address thing, I get stuff all the time from people who are buying from Ebay (from other countries) and have them shipped to me, but if what you said is true, I don't know how they do it then.. ?

EDIT: It's like saying that he's going to charge you $8.55 for shipping to a US address, because he wants to send with tracking and says that only priority with insurance will do it..

Thanks,
Jazaray

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Sorry, I meant registered. It also doesn't come with 100 dollars insurance. I have used in the past and been only able to insure for 43.50, but that insurance doesn't always cover the shipper. If you go back and read my posts, twice I have said that a friend lost his card sending by registered.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
I had a friend lose a 100.00+ card because he sent it registered and the other counrty didn't get a signature. Now he only ships global priority so he doesn't lose an Ebay chargeback.

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Sorry despite your belief that it does, registered mail doesn't protect the seller with Ebay/Paypal.

As far as a seller charging 8.55 for shipping, if the card is over 250.00 (200.00 on MOTL), that is perfectly reasonable. Someone complaining about it is just being cheap.

The fact that your friend lost his claim because the Post Office forgot to get a signature, has nothing to do with that it was registered mail and more to the fact that the Post Office forgot to get the signature... Which could also happen with his Global Priority with insurance shipments and he would lose his claim again.

I'm surprised that your friend is able to sell anything, considering that Global Priority, with the ability to have insurance, starts at somewhere around $20 (before adding in the cost of insurance..)

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

1) Registered shipping - if shipping within the USA up to $100 of insurance is included, and it is less than that when sending to foreign countries (the amount is determined based on the receiving country, as they each have their own regulations with regards to Registered mail). There is no tracking when the item leaves the country, other than to show 'Delivered' in most cases (and sometimes that doesn't even come up properly). It does NOT track all recipient points in the foreign country, which does not meet PayPal's standard, meaning it doesn't necessarily release you from indemnity claims. My buddy lost about $1000 through PayPal finding this out the hard way.

2) Global Express with tracking does track in foreign countries, and while this used to be as cheap as $19 the price has gone up significantly (and is also based on destination). The last packages I shipped using this were $27.xx, $29.xx, $31.xx, and $46.xx (not in chronological order). This is most likely what was recommended to the seller by his friend at the Post Office, and the seller is going to trust the postal worker, not some random on eBay.

If the buyer didn't want to play by the previously outlined rules of the seller's eBay auction (selling only within USA, unless specific shipping terms are met) then he shouldn't have bid. It's as simple as that. Whatever you deem 'unreasonable' isn't unreasonable to the seller who wishes to protect themselves from any potential claim afterwards.

quote:

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Originally posted by bigballashotcaller:

1) Registered shipping - There is no tracking when the item leaves the country, other than to show 'Delivered' in most cases (and sometimes that doesn't even come up properly). It does NOT track all recipient points in the foreign country, which does not meet PayPal's standard, meaning it doesn't necessarily release you from indemnity claims. My buddy lost about $1000 through PayPal finding this out the hard way.

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I often wonder why even pay for registered? It doesn't do anything worthwhile. And why people on MOTL even bother with it.

If the seller didn't want to send to Canada, then he shouldn't have said he would, and he certainly should have checked what the cost was before saying he would.

The seller stated that "in order to get any kind of confirmation" he would have to send with Global Priority shipping and insurance. This is an untrue statement. Yes, perhaps he didn't want to believe "some random guy from Ebay", but it's something he could have gone and checked out instead of flat out refusing to even check on other shipping options.

The post office sometimes makes mistakes, but this can happen on ANY package, no matter the way it's shipped or how much it cost to ship it.

Global Express shipping gives out the exact same information that registered shipping does. It just gets there quicker.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.