http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Beta-Mox-PEARL-MTG-NM-RARE-GORGEOUS-/290905771202?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item43bb55ccc2

quote:

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Beta-Mox-JET-MTG-NM-RARE- GORGEOUS-/290905768207?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item43bb55c10f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Beta-Mox-PEARL-MTG-NM-RARE -GORGEOUS-/290905771202?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item43bb55ccc2

Dark Beta. Watch out.

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__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=45345.msg626397#new

quote:

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Originally posted by Nick Vallas on The Mana Drain:
I looked at his collection in person and warned him several were definitely fake.

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__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by Magicmasonry:
Yeah, that's Nick Vallas who I mentioned. He said he thought they looked sketchy, then he examined them. They passed both the light test and the bend test. If he wasnt convinced then ask him why he was working out a deal with me for the collection. Tell you what, I'm going to take them down, and buy a blacklight and see if they pass the blacklight test. Then, if they pass that I will even try the water test one of them, just to be sure.

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funny, NV just posted today, on that same thread that he still thought it was sketch

quote:

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I looked at his collection in person and warned him several were definitely fake. He arrogantly told me I was wrong. He tried to tell me there are several alpha/beta variations. They seemed to pass the light test. How is this possible?

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the fact that he thinks it looks sketch, but doesnt know why, means he's not as well informed on the area of dark beta.. there were a lot of this stuff floating around when you claimed your father bought them.. there are several of us on here who are very familiar with these.. slinga owns several pieces last I recall.. I've handled more than my share over the years as someone who others go to to verify this stuff.. there's a few others on the site that are also very well versed on the topic

these cards will pass any test any of the real alpha/beta stuff passes.. so your point of, I did the blah-blah-so-and-so test is meaningless.. but if you want to check yourself over to the rarities forums at magiclibrarities.net most of the collectors there will agree with slinga's assessment. doesnt mean they arent legit.. these were not part of the wotc commissioned print run last I recall..

©

__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens

quote:

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Originally posted by Magicmasonry:
Okay, he never said to me, "these are definitely fake". As he even said, he tested them, and they passed, and that was good enough for the guy who arrogantly said he "already owns all this stuff". Why else would he offer me money for them if he thought they were fake. At no point in our dealings did he say, "okay I'll take everything here, except these moxes cuz I think they're fake". Nope, he wanted it all. So really, I think he's only saying he said this now because I turned down his offer for everything. As for me "arrogantly" saying there are different versions of alpha/beta cards, there are. I just now grabbed a handful of beta cards and found several commons and uncommons that have darker backings. Also, some beta cards have a darker inner border which someone tried pointing out, but this is known and not that uncommon. There were tons of inconsistencies in the early print runs of magic. I'm an honest dealer and have no intentions of selling fake cards, and my judgement of these particular cards has been based on several dealers looking at them as well as Nick doing the flashlight test on them and then proceeding to offer me money for them, thus solidifying the idea of them not being fake. However, since you guys dont seem convinced it has got me wondering again, so I am going to investigate them even further to be certain. If they don't pass the blacklight test then I guess we'll know for sure. In my experience though, I've NEVER seen fakes from back then pass both the bend test and the light test. There was a run of fakes in '98 that were very convincing but they all failed the bend test.

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you do realize, they will pass the tests, because they were printed at carta mundi, after hours, on actual card stock right? but they're not part of the wotc commissioned run.. these'll pass all those card stock etc tests, but they're blurry on sight, and held next to a real beta card. good luck researching more on this, there's only a handful of people in the country that are familiar/knowledgeable on it, and two of us have already posted here. none of the people you've referenced are amongst those I'd consider to be in that group.

©

__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens

quote:

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Originally posted by Magicmasonry:
What is the way to test them then?

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there isnt a good way, you just have to know it when you see it. these are printed on authentic card stock, at the actual print facility wotc used at the time. the only issues are:
1) they're darker than normal
2) they we're printed illegally

beyond that, they are real cards and will pass all the tests real cards pass. however, they were never supposed to get printed in the first place.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
So, since these aren't legal for play and basically just the best possible proxies you could get what would be reasonble values on dark beta cards?

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quote:

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Originally posted by dwiz:
Best possible value? Be like the ebay seller and don't say they're fake.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
Lol, I meant if someone was buying these as a present for someone's collection and/or use in 10 proxy tournaments. What would be the appropriate value on stuff like this?

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Nothing. These are illegal counterfeit products, and purchasing them is against the law. Wizards of the Coast could actually have you arrested for selling them or knowingly buying them.

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As could the government for putting 51 cents into those machines and turning a penny into a souvenir by destroying it....

They have value, you just have to have no morals to sell them without the other party knowing. If they're sold online, the seller will probably lose the cards and the money on a chargeback.

quote:

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Originally posted by dwiz:
As could the government for putting 51 cents into those machines and turning a penny into a souvenir by destroying it....

They have value, you just have to have no morals to sell them without the other party knowing. If they're sold online, the seller will probably lose the cards and the money on a chargeback.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:

Except that if you show up to any WOTC run events and anybody sees you with them, at minimum they're going to confiscate them on you.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Okay, so pay a fortune for illegal fake cards, and then see what happens if WOTC decides to take them away from you because you had them out at something official.

Sure, it will -probably- never happen, but it's a pretty stupid risk for several thousand dollars.

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
That's assuming you pay a fortune. What I'm asking is what's a fair price based on situation. I figure less than CE cards. How much less. Example if this wasn't MOTL and you ran into someone selling similiar stuff in person how much is max you'd pay? Also, what about for cheaper cards? I think it'd be neat collection wise to own lightning bolts like this even if not legal.

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Discussion of values of illegal items is not allowed on MOTL. Take it elsewhere.

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