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Originally posted by paragondave:
based on his post, I think he was expecting to not get less than $1 cards in the rare slot of MM2015 packs. I may be mistaken, but that's what I got from his post. I opened more than 3 packs and while I did get a few nice cards, I share the opinion that this 'premium' set leaves a bit to be desired in a number of ways.

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premium set? the point of the set was to bank dollars.. from everyone who clamored for at least 1 pt a yr for the most despised format of the pros..

so the general public can get access to these cards.. quality werent expected to be high.. surprised it wasnt done with color xerox on plain paper.. and even that would have sold..

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__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens

At this price, I wouldn't expect an unfun experience. It was so unfun that it actually effected my mood for the day. I guess I simply had different expectations.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
you're bitter than you played the lottery and lost? I'm not sure what you expected.

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Doesn't sound like he wasn't mad just b/c he didn't get a bomb mythic but the overall quality and experience

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Originally posted by crusader_ff3:
What I'm saying is I'm a long time veteran of the game, was eager to get out there into shops and be able to open packs that could contain arguably the best cards in modern, and at $13 a pack I would hope to pull something of greater PLAY value than hurkl's recall.

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$13 a pack is stupid. I thought $12 was the worst, but I guess not. I mean even at $10 a pack you'd probably have been as irked about what you found inside.

The things that Modern Masters does do are super good. Whether people like the way they did it or not, they hit the points they were trying to. Like, print some stuff that is expensive/overpriced to allow players to buy cheaper copies for Modern. Check.

Print local stores money. Check. That's what I view these sets as, along with FTVs, Commander's Arsenals, etc. Stuff that people will get hyped for that shops can sell quickly. It keeps Wizards supply line healthy.

The biggest concern I see now is that with the set being underwhelming, and the print run being (seemingly) bigger than last time, that this will sit on shelves, and stores will overbuy. Something I don't think will happen, but it's possible. Especially when un-informed shop owners are expecting the MSRP to be too low like it was last time.

As far as cracking these packs. HELL NO. For drafting I can see it, but breaking a box is straight up lottery as crusader said. I get the idea of wanting to try, and it's fun to crack packs, but from a financial side, I'd rather just buy into the discounted singles and wait for the price to head north again.

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Originally posted by crusader_ff3:

Man they screwed this up. Wish I could get my money back somehow. I know it was only two packs, but paying roughly $13 with tax per pack you shouldn't even be allowed to open $1 rares. Made me sick.

I'll stick to the secondary market and play at the kitchen table again... Lost all faith in this one.

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WOW - Your assumptions about me are not only entirely disrespectful, but simply uncalled for and lacks support. You have no idea who I am, what I do, or why I play (for fun, not the financial aspect). I just wish your parents taught common courtesy and respect when you were in elementary school.

You want to buy my rares for $15? Please send Paypal and I'll send out immediately.

It's players like me back in 1995 that helped fund this game. You're welcome.

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Originally posted by rats60:
10th Hurkyls is over 5.

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You can also get a 5th edition one for under $4.

This set is very much like a lottery ticket or slot machine. The average payout is fine (at $10 MSRP), but if you only buy 2-3 packs you are most likely going to have a bad experience.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
Print local stores money. Check. That's what I view these sets as, along with FTVs, Commander's Arsenals, etc. Stuff that people will get hyped for that shops can sell quickly. It keeps Wizards supply line healthy.

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Originally posted by crusader_ff3:
Rats,

WOW - Your assumptions about me are not only entirely disrespectful, but simply uncalled for and lacks support. You have no idea who I am, what I do, or why I play (for fun, not the financial aspect). I just wish your parents taught common courtesy and respect when you were in elementary school.

You want to buy my rares for $15? Please send Paypal and I'll send out immediately.

It's players like me back in 1995 that helped fund this game. You're welcome.

Unbelievably disrespectful, seriously.

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Your post was totally disrespectful, that was the responsed your post deserved. I went back and checked and I sold Creakwood Liege to 3 different people for 9.50 each recently and you are crying about pulling that card? You need support? Lol, grow up.

My point was, you could have easily sold those cards for 15+ before this product. Wotc put 10.00+ worth of cards just in the rare slot when they made this list. Even after prices crashed, the ev is still 7.00 from the rare slot. Like I said, you just don't understand economics. It is impossible for wotc to make you happy.

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Originally posted by Pail42:

They raised the MSRP since the last MM and the wholesale price followed. This set was not a gift to stores. FTV's and Commander's Arsenal have an intentionally low MSRP, low wholesale price, and can be sold for big bucks.

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Originally posted by Pail42:
You can also get a 5th edition one for under $4.

This set is very much like a lottery ticket or slot machine. The average payout is fine (at $10 MSRP), but if you only buy 2-3 packs you are most likely going to have a bad experience.

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Black bordered cards are worth more. 5th isn't black border.

You totally missed the point. Every MTG set is a lottery ticket if you are just looking for value. Buy 2 packs of any set and pull 2 junk rares and it's a bad experience.

The guy above bought 2 packs, pulled 2 good cards and is complaining, why? He didn't pull 10.00 cards out of every pack. Well he did pull a 10 dollar card and a 5 dollar card, but they are no longer worth that because Wotc reprinted them. Wotc reprinted them because people complained that prices are too high. They just can't win.

Sounds like you've got too much time into this and you should probably get back to your job. I'd have honestly guessed you were about 16 years old by the way. So saying you've been playing that long kind of made me "lol."

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Originally posted by rats60:
You totally missed the point. Every MTG set is a lottery ticket if you are just looking for value. Buy 2 packs of any set and pull 2 junk rares and it's a bad experience.

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Nobody is saying this isn't a lottery, but the lottery for MM15 is much different from a typical standard set.

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Originally posted by flam flawless:
Nobody has even mentioned the fact that some of these cards, while not highly valuable in paper, were to possibly help control the MTGO market? Hurkyl's recall, white leyline and a few others were easily 20+ tix and thanks to them being reprinted, helped make it easier for people to enter modern online at a much cheaper price.

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I must admit that this never even occurred to me but I would like to see the cost of some MTGO cards drop also.

I'm sending virtually every foil back for replacement (also a first), I think literally 5-6 of the foils did not have vertical scratches running top to bottom thru the middle of the cards. The most valuable foil I received was also damaged but in a different manner, a Mox Opal with a section of the edge at the bottom flared out.

Is anyone else returning damaged cards?

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Originally posted by dfitzg88:
While the product has not met expectations with regard to physical quality or its value proposition, I think I like the set with regard to limited play.

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How can you honestly type this quote out and mean it? It has to be the worst limited format I've seen in a long time. I'd rather draft Onslaught block. Unless you're a super bad drafter or are sitting in a really craptacular seat, this limited format pretty much tells you what you're going to draft and I don't really see much flexibility. Am I really off about this?

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

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Originally posted by rats60:
Your post was totally disrespectful, that was the responsed your post deserved. I went back and checked and I sold Creakwood Liege to 3 different people for 9.50 each recently and you are crying about pulling that card? You need support? Lol, grow up.

My point was, you could have easily sold those cards for 15+ before this product. Wotc put 10.00+ worth of cards just in the rare slot when they made this list. Even after prices crashed, the ev is still 7.00 from the rare slot. Like I said, you just don't understand economics. It is impossible for wotc to make you happy.

You'very been in the game since 95? I've been in it longer than that and I'm tired of people like you that complain about everything. I can tell you that wotc really didn't need your 2 pack purchase.

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I don't think 'disrespectful' means what you think it means. I mean looking at what he said and then your reply to it, I think you must be a bit confused. What do you gain by pouring out your hate on this guy?

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Originally posted by chaos021:
How can you honestly type this quote out and mean it? It has to be the worst limited format I've seen in a long time. I'd rather draft Onslaught block. Unless you're a super bad drafter or are sitting in a really craptacular seat, this limited format pretty much tells you what you're going to draft and I don't really see much flexibility. Am I really off about this?

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No, you're not. This draft format is pretty straight forward. There isn't much cannibalism between archetypes outside of everyone fighting for the eldrazi token makers.....which is the WORST bc if you try and draft the eldrazi deck you really need those guys to be able to cast spells in time to possibly live. So the slowest draft strategy that is dependent on certain cards is the only one that other decks will fight over.....that seems terrible. (5 color green and tokens will snag up those guys as well)

The removal is REAL bad. The amount of bombs that need to be dealt with on the spot and the available removal package is a joke. Then you have things like Savage Twister, All is Dust, Wildfire which any player with have a brain is going to demolish you with.....ESPECIALLY Savage Twister. I wish I could remember who wrote the article, it was posted on Star City years ago about how a card like this, printed at uncommon, totally wrecks and warps a limited format. Add to that $10 MSRP for packs it's not like you can move it to rare!

The format is bad for both drafting and sealed and has little to no replay value. You have to be one of a small handful of decks...or just draft a trainwreck.

The set itself has some VERY questionable choices for rare, it has terrible card quality(whatever card stock used is NOT acceptable for a premium product) and the packaging is also laughable.....from being able to tamper with the packs(which isn't the easiest but can be done) to the fact glue from sealing these packs sometimes gets on the backs of cards inside the packaging(which is totally unacceptable).

If you are a vendor, or a dealer GP Vegas is a goldmine for you in terms of being able to buy/sell/trade.....but as a player I think the best option you have is simply spinning the wheel to see if you open a god pool, or some money. If you don't open the god pool walk the hell away, go play some poker and enjoy your stay in Vegas. Hopefully you opened enough to recoup the buy-in. If I had planned to go to this I too would have probably opted to cancel seeing as I'd be going as a player and not a dealer.

This set was nothing more than a money grab, and it wasn't as well thought out like the original modern masters was IMO.

If this is what we get to look forward too the I predict the death of Modern sooner rather than later. I already can't stand to play the damn format as is....but that's just my personal opinion.

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Originally posted by chaos021:
How can you honestly type this quote out and mean it? It has to be the worst limited format I've seen in a long time. I'd rather draft Onslaught block. Unless you're a super bad drafter or are sitting in a really craptacular seat, this limited format pretty much tells you what you're going to draft and I don't really see much flexibility. Am I really off about this?

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I don't think that's the case at all. I've started drafts with the first 7 picks being all different colors before moving into one of the linear strategies. Prioritizing the important picks for each archetype doesn't leave you behind at all by the middle of the first pack.

It gives you a shot at being able to go over the top with the headliner cards for each archetype once you're in the beginning of the second pack. I think people who stay in one-two colors in their first 4-5 picks are ruining their odds of building an overpowered draft deck, and just end up with a middle-of-the-road draft deck.

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Originally posted by tye8fl:
My opened 3 boxes of the 3 all of them had multiple cards with black ink sprayed all over the card. Most of the cards were pretty regular but some of my value cards had black ink sprayed all over them to the point were you can hardly read the text of the card.

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