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Author Topic:   Why Magic Sucks
skater
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posted January 18, 2002 09:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Send a private message to skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
first off, i know you may not be mature enough to keep this discussion at a professional level, but please try. the reason those cards are so good in draft is because all the other cards suck. i think wizards should make cards on a higher level, so that cards good in limited formats are also good in constructed formats. the reason i quit magic isn't because it is too competitive, but it is because everyone is competitive. i haven't played a casual game of magic in a long time. everyone i know only wants to play in sanctioned tournaments.

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TheFireStarter
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posted January 19, 2002 09:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheFireStarter Send a private message to TheFireStarter Click to send TheFireStarter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skater:
true extended has a large card pool, but at any competitive level tournament, you know which decks are definately going to be there. true only 15 cards are banned, but those cards defined the extended environment when they were still legal.


So.... LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT.

You want Trix, FEB (Which is Combo), 21, Bargain, Academy, Hatred, and some other random crap to be played again. That is close to the stupidest comment I have heard on this board EVER.

The New art does not suck. I actually like the look of many new cards. Shure, Melissa Benson, R.K.F, and several others were great. But then again look at some of the "new" artists. Palo Parente, rkPost, Brom, Terry Nelson, Terese Nielsen... I could go on and on, but I chose not to. A TON of old art also sucked, look at ALL of Mark Poole's work. All of it blew. I drew a new picture for Balance that looked better than him.

Pro-Tour... PTQ's will always be competivite.... You're trying to get on the Pro Tour, what do you Expect?

GRRRR. Talk to me on AIM if you want to continue this.

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skater
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posted January 20, 2002 09:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Send a private message to skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The DCI bans cards to open up the enviornment and allow other decks to be played. If the DCI hadn't banned any cards from extended, there would be more decks played than there are now (competitively speaking). The issue of artwork is a personal one, and I (along with many other more expierenced players) believe the new art looks more cartoonish. I think that if Wizards wants to elevate magic above the level of just another *** , they should not illustrate their cards like other fags. By the way, artists like Paerente, rkPost, and Brom have been around for a while, too. I personally like Mark Poole's work and I doubt you could draw a picture of balance better than he could. I think that is the Pro Tour was abolished, magic wouldn't be so competitive. And btw, Full English Breakfast wasn't a combo deck.
 
MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack
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posted January 20, 2002 04:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack Click Here to Email MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack Send a private message to MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack Click to send MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack an Instant MessageVisit MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skater:
[B]The DCI bans cards to open up the enviornment and allow other decks to be played. If the DCI hadn't banned any cards from extended, there would be more decks played than there are now (competitively speaking)[B]

Actually you are totally ignorant and entirely wrong on this one. Because Magic is so competitive, and people WANT to win, they would play the best decks they could, meaning that pretty much everyone would play academy, except the smart people who would be playing a deck with 10,000 basic islands just to beat the academy decks.

also there are many cards to help the casual environment and make it fun, take goblin game, and battle of wits for example...

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Foil
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posted January 20, 2002 06:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Foil Click Here to Email Foil Send a private message to Foil Click to send Foil an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
For the most part, your original article was my point exactly. I only skimmed over some of the responses, and some had good points, such as the crappy cards are great draft cards, although some are just straight all around ***************$(#)!@*@#&#$&$_!+#)@#*$&ing$(#*@&!(#)%. (Tahngarth's Glare is seriously a reason I considered quitting Magic)
I am considering quitting Magic mainly because of a mishap that happened to me missing a tourney, but that is another story. When you spend so much time trading and buying and playing and working to buy more cards from the newest set, then all of a sudden the next block rolls in and all of those cards you were so proud to have are reduced to nothing due to the rotation, it really is not a good point of MtG. Also, Magic does cost a lot, a came in around Masques' release, and then packs cost around 2 to 3 dollars a pack, the $3 packs being the older ones. So four packs for a ten dollar bill, pretty good, although draft can get the same thing, that is another point. Not to mention foils were hyped on drugs and traded very well, so you had a great chance for a good pull. Now a ten dollar bill wont even pull off three packs. Not to mention that foils of even the most played common out of a non edition set wont go for more than three bucks, which will get you a, uh, umm, Cabal Shrine? There are a few uncommons that actually trade when you get to three or four of them, but that is the problem, you can never get four of them without buying boxes. And (bad grammar )- some of the rares do make you cringe when you open them. Especially when you spend five bucks on Friday Night Magic just to have your precious DCI Rating slashed, the insult to injury makes you want to go home after wasting four hours and go to sleep wihtout eating a decent meal.
When you say that draft is a good deal because four packs for a dollar is a bargain, it can go against you. Ten dollars can be a large increment of money for those of us who are jobless. Also if you pull the painland from Apoc or the Divert you kind of get jipped on not having any idea on colors and no good first pick, or you can take the game-breaking Aether Mutation over both and hope to win the Draft. Or if it is the Shadowmage (lo and behold) or the Vindicate, you can just spend about thirty minutes shuffling time before and between matches tearing the value of the card in half since you forgot to bring forty-three extra sleeves of the same color. If you walk out of the store ten dollars poorer and a Need for Speed, Verdoloth the Ancient, foil Caustic tar, and a Raging Kavu richer, you wonder if you really want to come back next week and play again.
Now, on to the crap, I mean, on to the Artwork on Magic cards. I would say around Planeshift and Seventh Edition the Artwork just turned form good to computer animation immature cartoons. When the storyline just entirely consumed the pictures on the cards on you saw the same Urza, Tahngarth, and weird robots with no tendons to hold the chunks together, you wondered if you should just pour India Ink on the artwork instead of having look at it. Before it used to have artwork to match the card in a classy way and actually looked like someone actually sat down and put thought into the card. By the way, I hope I don't offend anybody by this, I cannot, I repeat I cannot stand any picture that Matt Fischer has ever drawn, to see the same face that nobody cares about on girls, boys, animals, robots, and any other thing you can think up really got under my skin everytime I saw one of his cards.
I will stand behind every statement I stated and hope that a few of you agree with me, although for those that don't I really do not care. Skater I agree with you totally and if the next set is as dissapointing as everything after Invasion I'll just be another person who gets to be a little bit more popular for not playing the game anymore.
I would enjoy reading any comments that you had on this response or anything else on this post because I am very interested in this.

Thank you,
this is Foil saying I'll holla.

 
skater
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posted January 21, 2002 09:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Send a private message to skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MAGIC is CARDBOARD crack:
Actually you are totally ignorant and entirely wrong on this one. Because Magic is so competitive, and people WANT to win, they would play the best decks they could, meaning that pretty much everyone would play academy, except the smart people who would be playing a deck with 10,000 basic islands just to beat the academy decks.

also there are many cards to help the casual environment and make it fun, take goblin game, and battle of wits for example...



Actually, if the DCI sees that one deck is becoming too dominant, they will weaken the deck. This, in turn, allows more decks to be played competitively and will encourage a more diverse environment.

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skater
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posted January 21, 2002 09:58 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Send a private message to skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Foil I completely agree with you. The game of Magic revolves around money so much nowadays that the whole point on "fun" is left behind. Magic has become so competitive and so hard to keep up with (unless you can afford an extra 150 bucks a week to buy booster boxes) that I could never catch up. In type 2, for 2 weeks one deck would just dominate the Grand Prix's and PTQ's, so you would spend 100 or so bucks, but it, and then find out a week later that the newest deck can beat it. Even when you try to make your own deck, you have to buy four of each "hot rares" at 10 bucks apiece. Plus you have to playtest, etc. It's just become so hard to keep up with that it isn't worth my time.

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2pacalypse
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posted January 21, 2002 02:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for 2pacalypse Click Here to Email 2pacalypse Send a private message to 2pacalypse Click to send 2pacalypse an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Dude, you've got problems. I do stay up to 3 or 4 in the morning to fix my decks but it's all for good cause. May be not good for the people around me but I can make it to the pros someday, who knows? The article is well written and I enjoyed reading it. However, you made me think about M:TG and you sort of depressed me. The reason being is how sad can you be? You quit magic and you're trying to get others to quit? So what m:tg hasn't been too good for you and so what you're not as successful as others? You win some and you lose some.

To All those who read the article and are thinking of quiting just remember You win some and you lose some. That's life and that's how M:TG is.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by 2pacalypse on January 21, 2002]

 
elquemis
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posted January 21, 2002 02:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for elquemis Click Here to Email elquemis Send a private message to elquemis Click to send elquemis an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Since after Apocalypse came out last summer, I have spend a grand total of about $90 on Magic (not counting tournament entry). That's about $15 a month or less, and somehow, I have four Call of the Herd, four Shadowmage Infiltrator, four Vindicate...did I spend a lot of money? No. I traded. And I didn't rip anybody off, either. I had a lot of cards before that, but the point is, if you want the cards, you can get the cards. It's really not very difficult. I know guys who used to own virtually no cards in the world except for the ones in their deck, and when they were done playing with it, they would trade it off for a different one. It's not hard to get what you want as long as you're willing to focus your efforts. Is it going to be expensive getting all the good cards? Of course! Do you need them all? Hell, no!

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Preacher
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posted January 21, 2002 09:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Preacher Click Here to Email Preacher Click to send Preacher an Instant MessageVisit Preacher's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheFireStarter:
The New art does not suck. I actually like the look of many new cards. Shure, Melissa Benson, R.K.F, and several others were great. But then again look at some of the "new" artists. Palo Parente, rkPost, Brom, Terry Nelson, Terese Nielsen... I could go on and on, but I chose not to. A TON of old art also sucked, look at ALL of Mark Poole's work. All of it blew. I drew a new picture for Balance that looked better than him.

The new art blows like the girl in the car with Hugh Grant. Why? Because it all looks the same.

The flavor of the game is gone, and it will probably never, ever come back. Here are the reasons:

1) The story
The Magic storyline has to be the worst excuse for fantasy clichés I've ever seen. And the few parts that are original just suck too. I'm not interested in Gerrard or Squee or Kamahl or whatever, if it's supposed to be a fantasy-related game, I want to invent my own fantasy. If I want to be involved in a crappy pre-made fantasy, I'll read an Eddings book. Also, the cool magic superheros infest way too many pieces of card art that might otherwise be at least tolerable.

Personally, I rate the people after MtG storyline in the same category as people who listen to Limp Bizkit.

2) The Art
During the old days, the card art was diverse. There was something for everybody and the art was varied. Hell, it was CREATIVE! It didn't have Gerrard on it! It expressed the artists' feelings and ideas, and not the bloody storyline or the comic book feel of the modern art. Here's an imagined scenario:

Art director during the legends days:
Hey Pete, we want you to do this piece called "The Abyss". It's a powerful card and represents a place void of all life, as it will slowly devour most of Magic's creatures. The only ones who remain are the ones with pure soul, like White Knight. The flavor text will probably be a literary quote or poetry.

Pete: Sure thing. I'll make it really evil-looking. Hmm.. a cold place without form or void..

Art director during the modern (post-Tempest) era:
Hey Pete, we want you to do this piece called "The Abyss". It's featured in the plot synopsis you've all received, on page 47 just after Mirri has died. It's a really powerful card, it represents a pit where Squee fell after being chased by Moggs. In the art, we want you to draw a deep pit, pictured from the bottom. In the pit, there should be Squee, weeping because he broke his leg while falling, and at least some bones to represent that it's not easy to get out. On the top of the pit, there should be at least three other members of the Weatherlight crew, we've been thinking of Tahngarth, Sisay and Gerrard. They should of course all look very concerned, as Squee is after all their friend. The flavor text is going to be something like "Are you all right" "My leg hurts", we haven't really decided yet.

Pete: Sure thing.. umm sure you don't want me to make it look evil?

Art director: No, no, no.. We've trying to target it towards the younger audience. It can't be anything too scary.

Pete: Okay then. Now where were those character descriptions..

I talked to Tom Wänerstrand during a Grand Prix and he confirmed that the artists aren't given much liberties nowadays. He preferred the old way. A good example, compare the art from The Dark to the art in any later set. The Dark is much more vivid, much more varied and much more fantasy-looking.

Of course it's a matter of opinion, but a simple comparison: Unholy Strength from Beta, and Unholy Strength from 7E. Now which one is more Unholy?

Oh yeah, and about Balance. What is exactly so wrong with it? In the picture, we have a medieval sort of guy, dressed in strange armour, holding a scale. Who is this mystical guy? Is he a judge? A knight? Or perhaps a god? It leaves room for imagination. What would you want in the art? Squee? Gerrard? Or wait, I know! Let's put Gerrard balancing himself on a rope hanging between two poles! Balance, balance. Get it? Funny, hah. A good card game needs good humour

3) The People
By this I mean the people who play Magic. In the old days, people were having fun. True, people are having fun now, but most of them in a different way. It's fun to win PTQs, it's fun to practice and playtest and BOY IS IT EVER FUN TO win $2500 and the respect of some other nerds and gamers, and all for just playtesting XXXX hours. Wow, is it ever fun indeed.
Sorry I don't really have time to play multiplayer anymore, because there's this secret playtesting session I must attend to. We're developing new TECHNOLOGY that is sure to take the PRO TOUR by storm. Maybe then someone will respect me and not just push me around like I've used to. And besides, I can win money there.. so sod off, thank you very much. Go home playing your dumb multiplayer with your friends, who don't just grasp the current metagame.
Sorry, I can't spend my resources in anything but Type 2 cards. I'm still two Rages and an Undermine short of playsets of latest cards. But if you want to trade yours for my *insert cool, oldschool, casual stuff with good art*, I'd give you a good deal. Who wants that old crap anyway, it's scrub stuff. Me, I can't understand why someone would play anything non-t2 legal. Of course, Extended is cool as it's a DCI format and there are PRO TOURS I SO MUCH WISH TO ATTEND, but Type 1, 1.5 or 5-color. I mean, playing those I can't win money?? What a waste of time.

And this new thing, Magic Online, is really really cool. I mean, I can play Magic without even needing to get on IRC. Now I can avoid social interactions and people forever! Good thing my mommy brings me food and coke, otherwise I'd starve. And I can't sell these type 2 legal cards to get money for food, otherwise I couldn't build the latest deck. Too bad it costs a lot, but after all those thousands of hours of playtesting, I'm sure I can win free packs. And I wonder, would they redempt all my T2 stuff for virtual cards. Maybe I'll mail them...

Sorry I got a bit carried away, had a sad experience with some T2 people recently. I'm off to take my medication now


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Trade me your BB Gaea's Lieges



[Edited 2 times, lastly by Preacher on September 11, 2002]

 
skater
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posted January 22, 2002 05:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
2pacalypse: read Preacher's response...might do you some good.

elequemis: think about all the money you have spent in total on magic cards. sure, you can buy a great T2 deck for about a hundred bucks, but in a few months it will all go down the drain. only a handful of rares in each expansion will ever be used outside of it's life in T2. i mean, will you ever use your call of the herds outside of the next few months? probably not. there are much better cards in extended and type 1 to replace it.

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big_rock_14
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posted January 23, 2002 04:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for big_rock_14 Click Here to Email big_rock_14 Click to send big_rock_14 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
BLACK RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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iakae
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posted January 23, 2002 06:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skater:
i mean, will you ever use your call of the herds outside of the next few months? probably not. there are much better cards in extended and type 1 to replace it.


Um, actually, take a look at the past Extended season: Call of the Herd was everywhere. Everything from Walamies's famous Dumbo Drop that made the finals at PT: New Orleans to Junk adapted it. So I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong about Call of the Herd not being good enough for Extended, as there is nothing better in the format for what it does.

 
skater
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posted January 24, 2002 12:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
well although i must admit i am not up to date with the current cards, i don't see undermines and absorbs taking the place of FoWs...

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iakae
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posted January 24, 2002 01:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skater:
well although i must admit i am not up to date with the current cards, i don't see undermines and absorbs taking the place of FoWs...


Of course not, Undermine and Absorb serve different purposes than Force of Will.

Cards from Standard that have worked their way into Extended this season include, but are not limited to:

Call of the Herd
Shadowmage Infiltrator (used over Ophidian whenever possible)
Pernicious Deed
Spiritmonger
Vindicate
Meddling Mage
Lightning Angel
Zombie Infestation
Wild Mongrel
Entomb
Gerrard's Verdict
Roar of the Wurm
Battle of Wits (no joke)
Firebolt
Barbarian Ring
Urza's Rage
Crosis, the Purger

I'm sure I'm missing a number of cards on that list, but the point is that, right now, Standard is having the largest impact on Extended in the history of Magic (possible exception might be the Urza's Block-based Standard, but I'd have to sit down and list out every deck to figure that one out). So investing in Standard now is making a secure investment in Extended later.

 
Minivan
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posted January 25, 2002 12:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Minivan Click Here to Email Minivan Click to send Minivan an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I must be one of the few players of this game who actually prefers the newer art. Sure, the old art was more varied, and perhaps the artists did have more liberty in deciding what they wanted to show. These points are both valid and have been made. Personally, I prefer the art that looks more realistic to me - as close to a good photograph as possible, while still obviously being something created by someone.
I never did like Phil Foglio's stuff, mainly because it was too cartoony for my tastes. I do love Richard Kane Ferguson's stuff, though, mainly because it is so rich in detail, and the dream-like style fits the cards so often (Theft of Dreams is the obvious example here). These are just my personal opinions, though, and I'm certainly not asking for anybody to stop making art for Magic cards.
I like looking at a picture that's less than 1.5" x 2", and seeing new detail every time. I don't know much about how these illustrations are created, but I assume larger pictures are created, then shrunk to fit the cards. How else do they cram so much in? Many older illustrations lack this detail - look at an island or mountain from the earliest sets. It's basically just a triangular block with some clouds behind it. Invasion lands include some amazing details, like palm trees, breaking waves, thousands of tree-tops, moss-covered branches, etc. That's just the lands!
As for artistic creativity, is it any less creative a work if some *other* person, besides that mentioned on the card, is responsible for the idea? In other words, if the non-credited artistic director (or artist's spouse, or annonymous chat-room wanderer, or whoever) comes up with an illustration idea, is that less valid a creation than if a single artist produces the idea?
Also, I like seeing the storylines illustrated in the cards. What's the point in having a storyline for the game if it never appears in the game? I can usually piece together what supposed to be happening to the characters from the various cards - and I enjoy the process of gradual discovery, especially since I rarely buy pre-constructed decks (with their descriptive storyline inserts) and I never buy the books. And it's not like every card shows one of the major characters.
I can still play a game of Magic with my friends and get yelled at half-way through a game for delay, because I'll just sit and marvel at the art on some of the cards. They're detailed, professionally done, and quite fascinating to an artistic layperson like myself.
Finally, if you want to quit playing a game because the newer components are not to your liking, perhaps you are taking the game a little too seriously. I've never played in a tournament, and I don't pour thousands of dollars into this game. But I enjoy playing immensely, and if WotC went bankrupt tomorrow and never made another card, I'll probably still be playing in 10 years *with the cards already out*. Go to your local card shop. There are tons of older cards just sitting in the bins, waiting to be purchased. Build decks around old mechanics, surprise your friends and frustrate your enemies with obsolete ways of winning! Above all, HAVE FUN!

Thanks for allowing me to counter-rant. And btw, I thought that was a well-written, well-reasoned article.

 
Foil
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posted January 25, 2002 01:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Foil Click Here to Email Foil Click to send Foil an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
No, the art sucks. There is no way around that point, none. Try if you like. Maybe I should'nt even be arguing about the artwork, or maybe I just like too. If you say that the old hand drawn artwork is crappy for lack of detail, then you are wrong. Sure some of the land was a little boring, but how many forests do you go to that have hudreds of little huts in the treetops, or bonzi trees the size of redwoods? If you like gradual unfolding of the story, then why don't you go drop seven bucks on a book and read one page a week? No one ever said that you drop thousands of dollars at once, although over a year I wouldn't doubt it at all if you end up spending a G on tournaments alone. Plus, you don't even get good storyline and detail out of the pictures, you get the Weatherlight, Tahngarth, Urza, Matt Fischer, and angels with shirts on in every picture. The storyline has already consumed the flavor text almost to enitirety, and you also get "Don't mourn for me. This is my destiny." -Gerrard
Hmmm, I thought that Gerrard was one of the only early characters to survive the Apocalypse storyline, so why would someone mourn for him surviving? What kind of bad destiny is it to live? By the way, that picture has a lot of taste and detail to go along with it.
2pacalypse, I am not successful as others, true, but it is because I win most of my games and place at least Final Four in 95% of the tournaments. It just gets boring how the metagame is all you see, I remember Urza's block, ahh, Magic was good. New decks, new themes, none really cost much until you started playing Academy, if you even did, and these new occurences happening every week you showed up for a tournament.
Elquemis, that is weird, only 90$, wait, hold on, not including tournament entry, wow, how did you pull off only ninety dollars? I guess the five dollar Fridays and the ten dollar Saturdays don't have any effect on the money you spent. I also have four shadowmages, four call of the herds, and eight or nine vindicates, I trade, but it is very expensive and won't do you any good in the long run, or the short run in that matter.
Just to argue a little more, big_rock_14, if you ever return to see what effect your very valuable post had on this article, your signature sucks.

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skater
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posted January 31, 2002 07:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
guys, enough about the artwork. it's a personal thing, and i was just saying that I didn't like it (I think we can all agree it looks more cartoon-ish).

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ice_pick25
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posted January 31, 2002 08:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ice_pick25 Click Here to Email ice_pick25 Click to send ice_pick25 an Instant MessageVisit ice_pick25's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
i feel horney
 
Minivan
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posted February 01, 2002 12:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Minivan Click Here to Email Minivan Click to send Minivan an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You suggest we stop discussing the artwork, then finish with a parting shot on it's cartoonishness. For the record: I disagree. I do not think the newer art looks more cartoonish than the older art. And yes, of course it's a personal thing - but aren't personal opinions ("I'm quiting because Magic sux and here are my reasons...") what this post is about?
 
skater
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posted February 01, 2002 07:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes, but what I was trying to do was to make people see what magic has become these days.

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skater
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posted February 05, 2002 01:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skater Click Here to Email skater Click to send skater an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
i'd be happy to discuss any non art related opiniong about the addiction..err game of Magic...

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Minivan
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posted February 05, 2002 11:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Minivan Click Here to Email Minivan Click to send Minivan an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
This post has been very interesting, and it's getting closed soon, so I'm going to start a few related posts in the magic discussion section.

See you there.

 
magic_crazy
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posted March 15, 2002 08:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for magic_crazy Click Here to Email magic_crazy Click to send magic_crazy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
QUOTE (preacher) [Oh yeah, and about Balance. What is exactly so wrong with it? In the picture, we have a medieval sort of guy, dressed in strange armour, holding a scale. Who is this mystical guy? Is he a judge? A knight? Or perhaps a god? It leaves room for imagination.]

I know the art discussion is over, but here's my 2 cents.
Look at old cards like Keldon Warlord and Black Knight (4th edition and earlier). Just like Preacher said, who exactly are these guys? What plane do they live in? What ship do they fly? Who are their friends? Are they happy with their life?

WHO CARES!

That was the point of Magic in my mind. Make up your own freakin' story. Maybe there is a general description of what was going on, but you can decide how all the other creatures interact. Maybe Keldon was a mercenary, and the Black Knight was a wanderer fighting to stay alive. Nowadays, the art tells you what the card does in the story. Example: Erratic Portal is the portal that Gerrard must fly through to escape whatever land they're in (I forget)It's soooo boring. There's no room for imagination anymore. WoTC is imagining for you. (Lazy people applaud).

As for that one guy who said something to the effect of, "I remember the good old days. Then Odyssey came out." Dude, the good old days ended way before that. I consider those days to be over once Mirage came out. Game went downhill from there (as far as excitement goes).

Ok, consider the art responses officially closed. (Although really this is about the story-line)

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Flyboy1019
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posted April 11, 2002 11:02 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Flyboy1019 Click Here to Email Flyboy1019 Click to send Flyboy1019 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I understand how you feel, that Magic is down the tubes. But, while I only started in invasion, the great decks and expansions you speak of I never even got to see. I am only now seeing how these great old cards worked together, and also how competitive things have gotten since the beginning. Relax, though, casual magic is not dead. I play at a card shop in a town near me, and have never played a game anywhere else. I have never gone for DCI points or entered a DCI tournament. I play whenever I'm there, especially when we have a non-DCI tournament every Saturday. It is alot of fun, and I can only hope that everyone can find somewhere like this, where winning just means a chance for store credit. Sometimes it helps to simplify.

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