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Author
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Topic: Why Magic Sucks
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skater
Member
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posted October 04, 2002 04:37 PM
      
shadow, i understand what you're saying, but everyone that i used to play with steadily became more and more competitive... after a while i couldn't get anyone to play a simple game for fear of having their cards revealed. and on the art, the only reason wizards changed it was to appeal to younger kids. i mean they could at least mix it up a little. every card i see looks like something on saturday morning cartoons...
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Shadow88
Member
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posted October 05, 2002 12:33 PM
I agree about the art, although some of it does look cool, even if it has to take away some of the atmosphere of Magic to do that, which I'm not totally for. __________________
My have / wants list-----> http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/126381.html
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Juzam69
Member
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posted October 16, 2002 12:28 PM
First off nice article.
I to quit buying the new MTG sets because of, in my opinion cartoonish artwork, and also I felt that newer cards were just crazy (hauting echos, tramitize and color screw overs).
I now play Warlord. It is a fun game and the artwork reminds me of the old artwork on MTG cards.Anyways that's my 2 cents.
Juzam __________________
Peace Out! 
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Juzam69 on October 16, 2002]
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weezerdog
Member
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posted December 14, 2002 07:55 PM
Hmm....Skater, I commend you both on your grace with words, and the gist of your article.I haven't looked at a single new Magic card since Odyssey, after an unfortunate trip to PA resulted in my box of decks being stolen and me essentially dropping off the face of the Magic earth. But, while I may not be in the loop, I can say that I've always echoed your sentiments regarding the increasingly competitive nature of play. Some of my fondest memories of my adolescant days involve mysElf, some buddies, some beer, and a table with Magic cards strewn about. Anyone else remember sitting around a mammoth table with 7 other gamers, playing a huge multi-player brawl lasting some hours? Anyone else remember being the general and marching troops to and fro? Anyone else remember sitting there hoping the guy two seats down will drop a Waiting in the Weeds so you can cash in on all your Forests? The casual, 'let's have fun and play with whatever cards we want to' attitude is what I truly miss about Magic. It's too bad this attitude is all but extinct among players (at least it was when I quit, over a year ago (and I imagine it's only grown worse)). When you go to a shop looking to play some multi-player MaDness, and no one will play with you because their only decks are designed for 1 on 1, tournament games, and you're left with your Chimera deck or that white deck full of Crusades, Anthems, Outposts, and Sacred Mesas, with no one to play, it gets a little discouraging. That's the Magic I fell in love with, and the Magic I miss. -Jason =w=
[Edited 1 times, lastly by weezerdog on December 14, 2002]
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Preacher
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 11:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by weezerdog:
[BThat's the Magic I fell in love with, and the Magic I miss.-Jason =w=[/B]
And that's the Magic I still play. You just need the right playgroup.
__________________
"I see neither bravery nor sacrifice in destroying life or property, for offense or defense."
"The earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed."
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."Gandhi was a wise man
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Shadow88
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 02:43 PM
I agree with you, Jason. I sorely miss the huge brawls, where it was easy to forge alliances, and even easier to tumble them. Where things like even Illusionary Wall could see some play, and Force of Nature used to rule. Unfortunately, those days are now gone and passed, for me at least, with the last 8+ player game I played being in about '96. I only can play 4 player every now and then, usually its the mundane 1 v 1. *Starts reminiscing*__________________
I am on a quest to get all the Unglued cards, as many copies as possible. PLEASE HELP!
Aim:ShadowFenix01, Drop in and give me a line
FUNNIEST GOSH DURN CARD"It is better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
-Ben Franklin Ah, but your missing the point...
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weezerdog
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 03:32 PM
Yep. I remember about a year ago, when I still had all my decks, I'd go down to the shop with a friend here at SU and ask all the kids if they wanted to get in on some mult-player MaDness. The most common response was 'I can't because all my decks are tournament 1v1 decks' or 'Multi-player sucks.' So I'd sit and play my friend 1 on 1 when we were both using multi-player fun decks. Nowadays I just have my trade binder, which sucks because I always enjoyed keeping a deck or two around in case some people wanted to play a few games. Oh well...I hope the guy who stole all my cards is using them well.Preacher: Hey man, if you still play those games, consider yoursElf lucky. Even if I could find a playgroup like that, I've got no decks left to play with. -Jason =w=
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skater
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 03:58 PM
Weezer...finally someone recognizes my way with words  Seriously though, I agree with you on two levels. First, you mentioned how all your magic cards were stolen. It's scary how much money these cards are worth and the lengths people will go to just for some new cards (although I suppose the same occurs within most apsects of gaming-and life for that matter). Secondly, I also agree that nobody anymore wants to play some casual games of magic. Preacher, you said how you have a group of friends that are still willing to share their "tech" and play larger games with you, but we all know how rare these groups of people are coming. God forbid someone sees your secret counter to whatever the hot deck is...Anyway, I think we can all agree that Magic is becoming more of an obsession than a hobby for [most] people. P.S. - Weezer...mysElf <--- very clever!  Oh and if you ask me, I'd certainly say that you are more gifted with rhetoric than I am! P.S.S (or is it P.P.S?) - Preacher, I honostly hope that your friends (and yourself for that matter) stay as you are and don't give in to the die-hard magic gamer...Good Luck to you! P.S.S.S/P.P.P.S. - A personal rant of mine: To the DCI: I hereby entitle you as the "dream destroyers"...wrecking my Full English Breakfast dreams by banning Survival of the Fittest...Grr! j/k
[Edited 1 times, lastly by skater on December 15, 2002]
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Shadow88
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 05:01 PM
Yeah, I mean, seriously, that card from Unglued, "Look at Me, I'm the DCI," it's so incredibly true. I always enjoyed Magic more when 4th Edition and right before 5th Ed was released, anybody else remember those rumors about the 6th color, Purple, to be introduced into 5th? Yeah, good times, my brother wreacking havock on everybody with his WoG, Balance's, Tutor's and all. Even losing then seemed so much more fun then winning does now, because I had a goal to look forward to, and it was much more fun to sit in a musty old blue carpeted room, the sunlight coming in, teaming up to try and defeat him. I only succeeded once __________________
I am on a quest to get all the Unglued cards, as many copies as possible. PLEASE HELP!
Aim:ShadowFenix01, Drop in and give me a line
FUNNIEST GOSH DURN CARD"It is better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
-Ben Franklin Ah, but your missing the point...
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Preacher
Member
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posted December 15, 2002 06:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skater:
P.S.S (or is it P.P.S?) - Preacher, I honostly hope that your friends (and yourself for that matter) stay as you are and don't give in to the die-hard magic gamer...Good Luck to you!
Lately we've been playing a bit more competitive Type 1, but I still have my Gaea's Liege deck as well as my brand new Psychic Battle pile, so don't worry Every Wednesday we go to a local bar, grab a few beers and play Magic as it's supposed to be played. It depends on the day, but we've gotten anything from four to fifteen players. P.S. It's P.P.S. It comes from the words post scriptum, or in English "after writing". So P.P.S would be "post post scriptum" i.e "after after writing"
__________________
"I see neither bravery nor sacrifice in destroying life or property, for offense or defense."
"The earth provides enough to satisfy every man's needs, but not every man's greed."
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."Gandhi was a wise man
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Preacher on December 15, 2002]
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weezerdog
Member
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posted December 16, 2002 07:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow88:
For an added twist, try 2v2 Magic or a 4+player FFA.
|-|ell yeah dude, those are only a sampling of the cool multiplayer games that can be played. FFA
Teams (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc.)
Teams shared life (4 total players, 2 teams of 40 life total, etc.)
General
Emperor
Magic Solitaire is just extremely fun (look at one of the old, OLD issues of the Duelist for the rules (not sure which issue), and yes, I know it's not multi-player, but it still rocks). Since reading this article some days ago, I've had some really nostalgic moments, thinking about Magic and what it meant to me about 4 years ago, and how much fun I had. I'd give anything to go back to those days (not just because of Magic, but I'd love to be 15 years old again!). Sigh...=( -Jason =w=
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skater
Member
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posted December 17, 2002 02:07 PM
Yea shadow, that card really does explain it all Preacher: Heh I knew these two kids who played T1 VERY competitively... as in all the restricted cards, etc. Gaea's Liege! I remember those days... Weezer: Yea, multiplayer is VERY fun! I think they had the rules for some in an Urza's Saga rulebook, but I may be wrong. When I first wrote this about a year ago, I was also "reflecting" on my magic days. There was basically two time frames- the fun, and the competitive. When I first started playing was the fun part (coincidentally when I believed scaled wurm was the best card ever!), but after I started getting better and better playing with my friends was no challenge, so (regretfully) I moved on to the "Pro" scene, playing in tournaments, spending any money I could get on new sets, etc. What really hits me is how much time and money I put into a card game. I still don't know what it was about Magic that drew me into the game so deeply (maybe the challenge, the deck building, or whatever) but when I look back, the only time I actually had fun wasn't with my $300 deck or my binder full of rares, but when I had my 200 card deck filled with scaled wurms and force of natures... Oh Well
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Shadow88
Member
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posted December 18, 2002 05:12 PM
I'm not sure what type of playing this is, bnut I seem to like it, now at least, the most when everybody gets a said amount of cards from one set, at least 75, with at least 30 lands, and everybody just builds a 40 card deck. It's great, because usually, nobody ends up with a super good card, and people jyst mess around. I played it this past weekend (with only 3 people), and I can honestly say that it was the most fun I've had with Magic in the past year, at least.__________________
I am on a quest to get all the Unglued cards, as many copies as possible. PLEASE HELP!Aim:ShadowFenix01, Drop in and give me a line FUNNIEST GOSH DURN CARD "It is better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"<
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skater
Member
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posted December 18, 2002 06:28 PM
Shadow, it's probably some form of draft...draft is the one part of magic that I actually enjoy. It's not too expensive and you have to work with a random batch of cards.
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skater
Member
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posted January 02, 2003 03:44 PM
anyone else got any opinions?
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Shadow88
Member
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posted January 02, 2003 05:09 PM
Probably, but the Articles section is a ghost town.__________________
I am on a quest to get all the Unglued cards, as many copies as possible. PLEASE HELP!Aim:ShadowFenix01, Drop in and give me a line FUNNIEST GOSH DURN CARD "It is better to be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"-
Ben Franklin
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skater
Member
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posted January 03, 2003 08:20 AM
Yea, but thats too bad. This has been an interesting discussion so far
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KC Frost
Unregistered
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posted January 28, 2003 12:14 PM
It seems that WotC have fallen in the productivity of past Magic players ever since they banned the 15+ division of Pokemon. They deleted half their Pokemon Audience, and tried to bring them all into Magic. It's worked, but it wouldn't ahve worked if they continued to make cards that appealed to past players. They needed a new spunk for the new players, and they have succeeded...
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skater
Member
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posted January 28, 2003 04:07 PM
Frost, they only succeeded in bringing in new players from pokemon and other cca's (collectible card addiction), not satisfying older players. Unfortunately, it seems wizards is not staying "true" to its established fan base. What I think they have been trying to do is to bring in a minority of players with "kiddy" cards, while hoping their older fans decide not to quit, but try to live past the new cards in hopes of better cards in the future. Personally, I think this is a very immoral move, placing profits before what most magic players want, but as you say, it has succeeded 
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weezerdog
Member
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posted January 31, 2003 07:52 AM
I agree, Skater. While it may be a good business decision, companies like Wizards need to consider more than just the bottom line when choosing which products/services to offer. It's more than obvious that Wizards' interests are more aligned with attracting new and younger players, rather than keeping the older players involved and interested in the game. If, by cultivating the game towards a younger audience, Wizards loses, let's say, X older players, they will continue to do so and turn a profit as long as they attract X+Y newer players, where Y can be any number greater than 0. It's a poor way to go about it, but that's the business side of this game...-Jason =w=
[Edited 1 times, lastly by weezerdog on January 31, 2003]
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skater
Member
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posted January 31, 2003 08:11 AM
Exactly. As long as Wizards brings in more players than they are losing, what's the problem? It's too bad that Wizards is shaping magic with this mindset, but it is their decision to make, so it looks like we're going to have to live with it.
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deathwalker
Banned
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posted January 31, 2003 08:27 AM
consider this by the time someone eltablishes him/herself as a good player they have a pretty decent amount of cards and if they chose to just play casually of old school they won't really need many new ones. once in a while a new set comes out with some cool stuff you can upgrade your old school deck with (shadowmage, mutilate, etc) but for the most part you won't really care about the other stuff. so looking at it from that point wizards needs to sell their new stuff in bulk and what better way to do that then to little kids or better yet type 2 mainiacs with the resouces and time to spend tons on new sets. i use both old and new but i find myself using mostly old with maybe a few new bombs my goal now is to build my power deck and since i will be using the secondary market wizards doesn't make any money off me that way so they won't care about pleaseing me. if i can't scratch their back they won't scratch mine.
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ThisGameHasNoName
Banned
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posted March 05, 2003 02:02 PM
I started playing about when MM came out(then I stopped and started again)Well I know that sets like Legends and Alpha/Beta/Unlimited have like 20 exeptionaly good cards,50good cards, and the rest is OK.... A few days ago when I looked at the new legions set...OMFG, there are only like (maybee)10good cards,20 OK cards and the rest is Crap. The Last Exeptionally good card was in Onslaught, Blistering Firecat, before that it was the Intant-win cards from Torment (notice that DCI banned them  from most tourneys) and as far as I can remember Firecat Blitz, Mirary, Mirary's Wake, and Crush of Wurms from Odyssey. I wonder how bad the next set will be...
PS:I hate the new 8th edition cards, they look like a mix of DBZ and Pokemon(both childish games)
PPS:Oh Yeah, the NEW MTG Sets have poor art,
The Last "GOOD" art I have seen was on few of the Onslaught Cards and some Judgement/Torment
__________________
"I think, therefore I am."
[Edited 1 times, lastly by ThisGameHasNoName on March 05, 2003]
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