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Originally posted by skater:
The ones that quit probably quit because of the DCI’s banning spree or the horrible expansion sets...

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The DCI's banning, in my opinion, has always been a good thing. The days of the Urza block banning were dark ones for the game of Magic, as players were scurrying to get their hands on cards that should have never seen print, and Wizards felt that something had to be done to prevent these same cards from dominating the environment for the next year. Even though having cards banned isn't fun, neither is a type 2 environment with nothing but Academy decks winning.

As far as the more recent sets being bad, I think you're confusing bad with slow. The vast majority of Magic players felt the game was too fast in the Tempest and Urza blocks, and so Wizards set out to create a slower, more interactive environment, but one that is still exciting to play. For my money, they've done an excellent job.

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What I believe has ruined magic is the constant pressure to win tournaments, get DCI points, make the Pro Tour, etc. So I quit.

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Exactly who was putting this pressure on you? It's up to you if you want to try to qualify or even to win matches. Nobody's making you, and it certainly isn't required to enjoy the game.

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First off, the artwork just gets worse and worse with each new set. After the Urza Saga, the cards were just ugly...The new art reminds me of pokemon. Look where that game went.

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Your lack of enjoyment of Magic and the decline of Pokemon have one thing in common: neither has anything to do with artwork. I personally think the art in Odyssey is very good (although I can see why you didn't like much of the Invasion block, Invasion in particular).

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The second reason I quit was the horrible quality of cards. After the so-called “unbalanced” Urza Saga, cards just got worse. Wizards is just making poor quality cards nowadays. I have one question to ask Wizards: ‘Why, instead of making all the cards in a set low quality, why not make every card better, therefore making the cards more appealing (more people would buy them), and saving us the groans when we open a booster and see a nice shiny keldon twilight staring back at us.

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If every card in the game was up to the standard of the cards you're talking about, then games would only last a few turns because the cards would be so good and so efficient that they would either kill their opponent in that time or totally control the game in that time. See above, also, on the issue of confusing slow cards with bad cards.

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The last reason I quit magic was the Pro Tour. Talk about a cutthroat competition. Lets say your spend all your money and time building a good deck and learning to play with it. Lets say you make the Pro Tour, where everyone else has spent all their money and time making a good deck. If you aren’t on a team, just forget about winning, because they can playtest 10 more times more than you can and wipe the floor with you. Oh, and don’t think about tech at all. ...Wizards spends tons of money on a few people, yet all the other people that play magic casually get zip.

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I'd like to remind you that both Randy Buehler and Ben Rubin, noted pro players, were just normal guys who won a PTQ, then went on to place first and second (respectively) in their very first Pro Tour with decks that they had created themselves. This part is a little paranoid, I think. Sure, they've tested more; that's what they have a team for. What's to prevent you from doing the same thing? And what tech out there can be discovered by ten people that can't be discovered by one?

As far as Wizards giving money to winners and all, and none to the amateur, I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say here. What do you want them to do, make their packs free? If you want the money, then win the event. They're well within their rights to do this.

If you aren't enjoying the game, however, then take a break. Maybe a month, maybe two, but don't go selling just yet. Then try to get back into it. I did this, and I can't tell you how happy I am I did.

Concerning card bannings, I think that some cards should have obviously been banned (i.e. Academy). Take 'Trix' for example. The DCI obviously wanted to balance this deck out somehow. The only ways to do this was to take out either illusiond, donate, or necropotence. Banning any of the three would take the deck out of any competitive environment (which is what the DCI regulates). If it were up to me, I would've banned illusions instead of necropotence. True, necro is an extremely powerful card, but it can't win the game alone. Taking out necro ruins other decks such as black weenie and various black/red variations (seismic assault/firestorm decks). Look what they did to Full English Breakfast. Paul Barclay took really crappy cards(shapesifter, dreadnought, among others) and put them in probably thee most fun deck I've ever played. Then the DCI came along and banned survival, ruining one of the most innovative decks to exist in extended.

About my second comment, I tried (in a rather unsuccessful way) to show that there is much more pressure today to be playing on the Pro Tour than there was when magic was first introduced. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I was never much of a competitive player, and when I see everyone around me hiding their tech until the next sanctioned tournament and carrying net decks from the latest PT, I realized that competitive magic was more popular than casual magic (in my personal community, of course).

I haven't had the pleasure of seeing the latest artwork, but I will certainly take a look at it. Invasion and 7th Edition artwork iss truely horrible, and after some time it was litterally painful to look at the new birds of paradise and llanowar elves. The artwork looks less detailed than before (take a look at unholy strength from 7th).

I considered the older sets better because they would have a handful of really good cards, a bunch of 'regular' cards, and a few really bad cards. People could make good decks centered around a few good cards, with the rest of the deck filled with regular cards. Now, the 'really good' cards have, IMO, gotten weaker, so the decks turn out worse. Personally, I liked the fast environment and hate slow environments, but I don't think that has anything to do with how good or bad a set is. As an example, take Masticore. It's a good card, whether it's in a blue control deck or a faster green or black deck. The card is still good in decks of both speeds.

If every card was average or above, it would make for 3 turn kills, because the other deck would stop that with it's good cards (that sounded really confusing). If both decks use good cards, they will keep each other in check. It's like having a llanowar elf block a llanowar elf and a verdant force block a verdant force. The force is a bigger creature, but it will still die.

I think the Pro Tour is a big waste. Partly because I'm not the competitive player, but also because I think all the money spent on it could be put to better use, either to lower the price of packs or to encourage local tournaments. I mean face it, not everybody has the money to spend on cards. How is a kid supposed to make the Pro Tour when he can't spend 100 bucks a week buying the newest money cards?

while i dont agree with all of that
like for instance how the new art work is causing people to quit
ermm thats might be a factor for some people
but eh

personally i do love the old artwork
i like to get old cards just for that
heh i collect cards drawn by chris rush
an excellant artist
i think the last set he drew in was uzra's legecy i think
the flask one i always get them confused

and alot of his old artwork
man it's just so good IMO
heh
but i dont know about the rest of your artice
its not badly written
but i wouldnt know as i made a D in english :-\ (it was english 4 alot of writing papers and such heh)

and i only started in stronghold
and i played cuasly for years
heh

Anyway, what I really wanted to say was, Apprentice is a great tool for anybody who just wants to play casually and/or doesn't want to spend as much money as may be required to be competitive in the game. I'm on Apprentice, and I playtest for PTQs sometimes, and others, I just mess around with some goofy deck, and none of it costs me anything. Some people I've played with don't even own any cards! Anwyay, Skater, that may be a good solution for you.

I do agree with you about online magic, but it just really isn't the same as the game. Apprentice is great to play on, but the graphics and gameplay aren't as great as that other magic online game (forget the name). Anyway i see your point, and I agree that online magic is a great alternative.

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Originally posted by NightDog:
about the artwork

while i dont agree with all of that
like for instance how the new art work is causing people to quit
ermm thats might be a factor for some people
but eh

personally i do love the old artwork
i like to get old cards just for that
heh i collect cards drawn by chris rush
an excellant artist
i think the last set he drew in was uzra's legecy i think
the flask one i always get them confused

and alot of his old artwork
man it's just so good IMO
heh
but i dont know about the rest of your artice
its not badly written
but i wouldnt know as i made a D in english :-\ (it was english 4 alot of writing papers and such heh)

and i only started in stronghold
and i played cuasly for years
heh

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Yeah sure, amy weber draws the coolest pics, and i don't see her (?) name popping up anymore

I know it shouldn't bother me, but it is REALLY irritating when you want to have fun, and your opponent is so serious that he comments about the style in which you draw the cards. (has happened before) This bothers me because I remember a day when you played magic and had fun. I find it more and more difficult.

I know what youre saying: play for fun, dont care about tournaments. But then, I never get to play. Everyone is SO much into their DCI points, or how high they are in this months ARENA league that I have to join tournaments to have play. I wish I could simply not care what is banned and what is not, but if I dont, than no one will play against me cause I have banned cards in my deck. I see the point in most of DCI's desicions, whether or not they are correct is another issue. What bothers me is that they take away from the great game that magic once used to be...

i hate the knew art work that has been comming out.. i am a major collector of angles and my jaw droped to the floor when i saw the horible recreation of one of the most celebrated creatchers in the game serra angel...

Some people love competition. I am one of them. I thrive on it; it's what makes the game worthwhile for me. It's the part of the game that makes the spending of time and money justifiable. But I still have fun. A lot of it. And if you want to play casually, you're going to have to let people know that. When you ask me if I want to play type 2, then I whip out one of my best decks or the deck that I'm thinking of playing soon and hope to improve. Not many people think outside that particular box, but many would be happy to try out the ideas they have but are afraid to use in a tournament if you would just ask them.

Re: the art:
Okay, so some of it sucks. Even if it all sucked, I still think that's irrelevant to the rest of this topic.

Re: Bannings
No card has been banned in type 2 since Mercadian Masques came out well over two years ago, and no card since Prophecy has been banned in any format (with the exception of FoF in type 1, but that hardly counts for anything). You guys are a bit too afraid of card bannings, I think.

In my opinion, the game is at its best right now. Look at the tournaments that are going on, particularly the Grand Prixs. A different set of decks makes top 8 at every one, and a different one wins every time! You can't tell me that the fields of Type 2 and Extended aren't the most wide-open they've ever been. And hey, people have done crazier things in both formats than play Scaled Wurm -- and won.

I also have the ideas of split cards and other really bad abilities that Wizards makes just to keep people in the game.

I think the problem with the Pro Tour is that there is such competition at qualifiers, not to mention the PT itself. I think that Grand Prix's are good because they are open to more people and it is a more casual enviornment.

the reason magic has started to come out with some good cards and some bad is because limited and draft are so popular right now. cards like amugaba, abosan cephalid emporer and cabal patriarch are all VERY broken cards in draft/limited. those cards in constructed are next to crap. most good constructed cards are good in draft, but not all cards good in draft are good in constructed.

also, i do agree that magic is extremely competiev now-a-days. i played when tempest came out and there was not many cards i couldnt use. scrolls, pups, fanatics, and some burn like kindle and incinerate were all i needed to get some wins. now u have the whole system of "metagame" which was around in the tempest days, but not as confusing as now.