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Originally posted by Devonin:
Not that the majority of Actual Stores sell them at MSRP either. It's probably the most infuriating thing shops do, selling a Primary Market item at way over MSRP because they're anticipating its performance in the secondary market.

Almost but not quite as infuriating as the shops that will sell their entire limited stock to one guy so -he- can sell them on eBay

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But marking something up on day one, by 100-250% of MSRP bothers me. I'm sorry that the market supports them charging so much because one guy is willing to drop the cash to eBay all the singles for an even bigger markup.

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Originally posted by bigbob585:
If you only knew what it actually costs shops to buy

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Originally posted by airwalk:
Spit it out then.

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Originally posted by rats60:
Do you buy boxes of every set at MSRP or do you expect to pay less? Most people want to pay less than MSRP when they can, but when it goes the other way, some how the store is the problem. Magic is a collectible card game and the market determines prices. This is good for the players and bad for stores. I bet if you told the store you would buy a box of every set at MSRP, he would be happy to sell you a FTV set at MSRP as well as one of any of the other special releases that you wanted.

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This makes sense. My local shop told me that they have to buy minimum quantity for all "special releases". This includes stuff which did not sell well, such as Premium Slivers and Phyrexia Coalition.

On the other hand, it seems that in the last 2 years, WOTC has been printing much more winners than losers where special releases are concerned.

So yes, I will repeat it again. WOTC is reprinting valuable stuff, robbing owners of existing cards of value, and lining their pockets in the process.

Winners (all these were sold locally at premium to MSRP, premium ranging from 10% to 250%):
FTV Dragon
FTV Exile
FTV Relic
EvT
Fire and Lightning
Jap Jace vs Chandra
Commander Deck 1
Commander Deck 2
Commander Deck 3
Commander Deck 4
Commander Deck 5

Losers:
Phyrexia Coalition
Premium Slivers

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Originally posted by bigbob585:
If you only knew what it actually costs shops to buy

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Originally posted by caquaa:
its not like its some huge secret. Depending on the product shops have a built in profit margin of ~40-50% typically. Some stuff like zendikar distributors jacked up the price for a while and such. It happens. It just sucks when you know someone along the line isn't passing down an increased cost, they're just pocketing a large amount of money.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Standard markup is 100%, so I'd say the stores probably pay about $15 for FTVs as long as the distributor isn't pulling hijinks.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
ins't this saying that FTV sets are msrp at $30?

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Close enough. I think they were $34.99 on the MSRP. All it means is that selling them at MSRP makes them about $17.50. Any markup above that goes into their pocket instead of the customer who resells it on eBay.

"dude i just bought a $35 FTV LEgends, and have $XXX dollars of trading power out of it..."

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Originally posted by stu55:
not much is the answer

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False. Only stores participating in WPN get to buy FTV sets, and only a few. Think of it along the lines of the Player Reward Program: If you play in tournaments, you get some bonus cards; if you organise tournaments, you get to buy some hot bonus product. It's a rewards for stores that make the effort of actively promoting Magic. Running a MtG store isn't just fun an games, it's not easy to do well in this business.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
MTDetermine, Divene vs Demonci and Elves vs Goblins both shot out of msrp range right?
Personally i have never seen any F/l or Jap JvC dekcs go for more than 5 dollars above msrp, and actually quite often at msrp. Though i would believe that about jap jvc

ins't this saying that FTV sets are msrp at $30?

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In USA, with its expanded distribution network, MTG special products are mostly selling at MSRP, save for maybe FTV.

Where I live, 5 Commander decks were above MSRP. Jap Jace/Chandra were above MSRP. EvT was at MSRP but after it sold out quickly, the 2nd batch that arrived 1 week later was again above MSRP.

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Hasbro is a pure profit body so of course it will not hesitate to boost its profits by indirectly robbing existing card owners by coming up with special release that dilute value of existing cards via expanded print-run/pool of cards.

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I am not sure how much Hasbro has a hand in things. From all accounts, WoTC is run with very little oversight. I think it is more likely that WoTC has certain financial numbers they need/want to hit each quarter and reprinting cards and packaging them in these decks is the easiest way to do it.

Unfortunately, I think a majority of players now are not collectors and if they can get a card cheaper than they could a week ago, that is a good thing regardless of what was done to make it so.

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Originally posted by Nitelite:

I know I am in the minority here but I wish they would expand on the reprint policy and continually add cards to it. It's getting harder and harder gambling on this game and having no idea what is going to get reprinted. As a result, I am spending less and less on newer product because I know I'll be able to get it later in one form or another.

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Especially with all of those Core Set reprints

This is a card game you should be playing for fun, not buying and selling like it's the stock market...

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Originally posted by Devonin:
So they reprint a card you just bought, figuring it would continue to increase in value, the value drops, you are upset about it, you wish they'd add more cards to the reserve list.

And what if you just -sold- a bunch of cards, figuring they were about to be reprinted, and instead they were added to the reserve list and suddenly the value jumps? I suspect you'd be upset about it, and wish they'd stop adding cards to the reserve list.

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Well, no new thing have been added to the Reserve List for a long long time. So your 2nd scenario is really a 99.999999999999999% useless, not-meaningful scenario.

On the other hand, a number of cards have been reprinted in "special edition" and it is likely this trend will continue.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Fair enough, it's not easy to do well in the business. The solution being "Let's take an industry standard markup, and triple it" as a way to do well just bothers me.

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