quote:

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Originally posted by Heresy19:
I'll stick with my:

Unban Worldgorger Dragon!

I wish :/

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Degenerate 2 Card combos usually don't' get unbanned either as much as i love this combo.

Some think Snapcaster is too strong in Legacy/Modern, while others think it is balanced and not overwhelming.

Too Strong Camp:
1) Can flashback brainstorms + other nasty 1-2 drop spells

quote:

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Originally posted by MTDetermine:
A bit confused after reading everyone's comments. The summary is probably:

Some think Snapcaster is too strong in Legacy/Modern, while others think it is balanced and not overwhelming.

Too Strong Camp:
1) Can flashback brainstorms + other nasty 1-2 drop spells

Balanced Camp:
1) Need 3-4 drop to do something with it
2) If you flashback a socery, you need to cast it within your turn
3) And if Snapcaster is nasty, its probably Brainstorm that is too nasty

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You missed this part:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
Let's just hope we see Bertoncheaty on the Dec 20th list.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
So ban it in vintage, LDO. It's not like anyone plays that format anyways. Vintage is the 1%

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You apparently live nowhere on the Eastern Coast, especially anywhere in the Northeast through Mid Atlantic, where Vintage tournaments happen weekly.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by RJM:
I'd still like to see Survival of the Fittest come off the list. I still don't get how that card was doing anything that is "unfair" or "unfun" to the metagame.

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This.
One of my ALL TIME favorite cards.

~MM

__________________
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MOTL NCAA Bracket Challenge winner!

CM Punk "OMG Kevin Nash WTF, thought he was dead, LOL"

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
You apparently live nowhere on the Eastern Coast, especially anywhere in the Northeast through Mid Atlantic, where Vintage tournaments happen weekly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
You apparently live nowhere on the Eastern Coast, especially anywhere in the Northeast through Mid Atlantic, where Vintage tournaments happen weekly.

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I have lived in south florida for the last 27 years. I was just in NYC for 3 weeks, boston for 4 days, and philly for 1.5 weeks and saw ZERO people raving about vintage.

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
I have lived in south florida for the last 27 years. I was just in NYC for 3 weeks, boston for 4 day, and philly for 1.5 weeks and saw ZERO people raving about vintage.

Sorry. You are the 1%.

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So, if Vinatge doesn't matter, then by does WotC make any changes to the banned/restricted list for us?

Also, NYC and Boston doesn't have Vintage tourneys. LI, Jersey, and various areas in Penn do.

__________________
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(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
So, if Vinatge doesn't matter, then by does WotC make any changes to the banned/restricted list for us?

Also, NYC and Boston doesn't have Vintage tourneys. LI, Jersey, and various areas in Penn do.

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I'm going to assume your "by" is meaning "why". Why do they do it? Oh, I don't know, they are the governing body of the game. That doesn't mean you're not the 1%

Do you read my posts or do you just skim them? YOU ARE THE ONE PERCENT.

99% DO NOT CARE ABOUT VINTAGE.

Until the entire US and world plays vintage you will be a minority.

Hell, I'd place money (and give you odds) there is more EDH players than Vintage players.

Snapcaster is not the problem. The problem is your busted ass cards.

quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
I'm going to assume your "by" is meaning "why". Why do they do it? Oh, I don't know, they are the governing body of the game. That doesn't mean you're not the 1%

Do you read my posts or do you just skim them? YOU ARE THE ONE PERCENT.

99% DO NOT CARE ABOUT VINTAGE.

Until the entire US and world plays vintage you will be a minority.

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Where are the surveys that support this, or is this just your opinion. Just because Vintage isn't heavily supported it doesn't mean that no one cares about it. There is plenty of Type 1 action out there if your looking for it but four days in Boston and a week so in Phily isn't going to spawn a Vintage scene upon your arrival to accommodate you. Although, I could be wrong but you would've enjoyed yourself had it happened. Unless you don't like T1?

quote:

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Hell, I'd place money (and give you odds) there is more EDH players than Vintage players.

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It almost seems as if you guys are arguing two different points, and misinterpreting the other's words.

Given that there are hundreds of thousands of Magic players, if only 1% care about Vintage enough to follow the B/R list, that means that there are still thousands watching to see if there are any changes. So, in that sense, WotC still has thousands of people who still support the format.

However, as a percentage, I think most of us would concede that the number of people playing almost all the other formats is greater than Vintage players.

So, while WotC may maintain the B/R list for Vintage, they may not spend as much energy and time on it that they do for Legacy or Modern.

quote:

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
I think in this discussion, we need to clarify whether we are talking about absolute numbers or percentages.

It almost seems as if you guys are arguing two different points, and misinterpreting the other's words.

Given that there are hundreds of thousands of Magic players, if only 1% care about Vintage enough to follow the B/R list, that means that there are still thousands watching to see if there are any changes. So, in that sense, WotC still has thousands of people who still support the format.

However, as a percentage, I think most of us would concede that the number of people playing almost all the other formats is greater than Vintage players.

So, while WotC may maintain the B/R list for Vintage, they may not spend as much energy and time on it that they do for Legacy or Modern.

Whether "nobody" cares depends on whether you mean that the absolute nubmer is close to 0 or the relative percentage is dangerously close to 0. The absolute number of players is certainly a non-zero quantity, but the percentage of players must be coming close to a rounding error, or sampling size error if you asked a survey of 1000 random people which formats they play.

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QFT

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
Fine, Let's say Snapcaster gets restricted in vintage on 12/20. You know what happens to snapcaster's price? NOT A DAMN THING.

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Well, it won't, so that point is moot.

But here is the thing. All the changes that are being talked about involve Modern, Legacy, or Vintage. And yes, most people do not play Vintage. However, I would also venture to say that most Magic players do not play Legacy or Modern either. Even it is 51% of Magic players, that is still most players.

As for what I think:

Modern - Nothing for now
Legacy - Brainstorm banned, blue is just too powerful right now.
Vinatge - Nothing for now, but I will not be surprised if Gush is restricted again.

quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
QFT

THIS TIMES INFINITY.

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Um, yaku kinda pretty much disgareed with you, since he pretty much stated that thousands of players care about the announcement. Unless I fully misunderstood his entire post.

__________________
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(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:

As for what I think:

Modern - Nothing for now
Legacy - Brainstorm banned, blue is just too powerful right now.
Vinatge - Nothing for now, but I will not be surprised if Gush is restricted again.

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I have said vintage players are the 1%.

1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000.

Congratulations.

And honestly, it's probably vintage players are in the 0.1%-0.5%.

"However, I would also venture to say that most Magic players do not play Legacy or Modern either. Even it is 51% of Magic players, that is still most players."

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

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Originally posted by Pringlesman:
This. Right now it's really hard to justify not playing a blue deck packing 4x brainstorms. Blue based control decks are just way too good and with the plethora of fetchlands they can just fix there hands too easily with Brainstorm and Ponder. I'm just worried about control decks not being good enough to keep down the combo decks without there ability to brainstorm in response to a combo piece to find a key piece of control magic. I rather Blue based control decks be too good than ritual based combo decks being too good.

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I hope Brainstorm isn't banned. It is very good, probably the best thing you can do in the format. Whether they stand for a Brainstorm ban or not, I think most Legacy players would rather non-blue cards just get better than just ban Brainstorm. Making Aether Vial or Chalice of the Void decks stronger would be nice. It's what I want for Christmas.

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
Everyone is pulling % garbage out of their hole.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:

"However, I would also venture to say that most Magic players do not play Legacy or Modern either. Even it is 51% of Magic players, that is still most players."

I can't believe you're can actually play this game well and then spew this garbage nonsense. Completely ridiculous.

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Take the blinders off of your witch hunt of me, like you are Drew Levin going off on Alex. What I stated is an absolute truth, much like your truth about Vintage players as a whole.

I agree, yes, Vintage is a small group of all Magic players, but they can not be ignored, otherwise you lose people who will buy your product. I don't know, but even in the "prime" of the game, WotC can not afford to have 10,000 people stop buying cards and playing the game in this economy.

Now, if you want to try and debate that, please do, but be ready for everyone to sit back and laugh at your garbage.

__________________
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(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by Pringlesman:
This. Right now it's really hard to justify not playing a blue deck packing 4x brainstorms. Blue based control decks are just way too good and with the plethora of fetchlands they can just fix there hands too easily with Brainstorm and Ponder. I'm just worried about control decks not being good enough to keep down the combo decks without there ability to brainstorm in response to a combo piece to find a key piece of control magic. I rather Blue based control decks be too good than ritual based combo decks being too good.

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I don't play blue, but I don't have a problem with Brainstorm. It's a very good "blue" (in flavor that is) utility card. And if you wanted to stop Brainstorm, Mental Misstep was a pretty good option. I'm still holding out hope Wizards will see the error of their ways and unban that.

I really think things like Jace2.0 are problematic, much more so than either Brainstorm or Misstep or even Survival. The purpose of the banned list, as I understood it, is to stop people from playing degenerate, unfun cards. I could see where they were coming from when they banned Survival (though I disagree with the claim it was unstoppable; it was easy to stop), but Misstep? I didn't care any more about getting Misstepped than I did about FoW, Daze or even Counterspell. Misstep didn't power a combo like Mana Drain could. It wasn't an infinite counter engine, the way counter-tops arguably can be. In fact, it gave non-blue decks a fighting chance against a lot of those combo decks. Misstep added a fun, new dynamic to the game by giving non-blue decks a decent counter option. Sure, it was better in a blue deck, but not rediculously so.

quote:

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Originally posted by SageShadows:
Well, the Occupy Wall Street protest has probably influenced 99% of percentages.

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I giggled, then the % of how much I liked you went up.