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Originally posted by Nitelite:
What is your point?

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Originally posted by paragondave:
$250 is the accepted and appropriate threshold and falls in line with all the other sites who deal with this issue. I agree with that as well. What the mods and admins agree to make law on this site has no bearing on my trades or sales because I will continue to use the appropriate disclaimers when necessary.

Folks, MOTL is not a democracy.

P.S. If MOTL was for sale and I was able to purchase it, which I have considered investigating, it would continue to not be a democracy...and it would stop being completely free. Perspective is everything.

Jaz, if you did a lot of deals, you would understand the impact that amount has on the cost of doing business by the MOTL guidelines. Since you don't, it is hard for you to see the reasoning.

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A) I think Jaz understands fine

B) MOTL being free is the best part of this site and the fact people can trade or not and contribute to the boards as they see fit

C) MOTL is not going to die, you people are 100% overreacting to a change. This solution is so simple and people just want to get all technical with it. Ready for the answer, it is going to be a shocking one....

PROTECT YOURSELVES AND DON'T EXPECT THE SITE TO DO IT FOR YOU!!!!!

Christ, I mean if you are doing a large deal, are you not going to want insurances for it anyway? What if the machine at the post office shreds your package, sorry, **** out of luck. And if it is a small deal, insurance costs a $1 and some change.

And for the record, to some people $100 is a big trade, you people want $250 and to be honest to me that isn't even a big trade.

If you are worried about international, just give them the options and go with what they pick, I promise you it will work out find in the end. Its just like declaring $20 on Int'l trades when the person asks to short cut the customs.

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I have to go to work, but ya'll need to stop complaining and be thankful that we have this site and that Lesh took the time to make a post and he did clearly take his time to work something very reasonable out when it came to adjustments for the site.

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Seriously? No one is complaining about the $100 threshold. In fact, Leshrac posted this:

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I want to give everyone a two weeks to comment on this rule and suggest any changes they would make.

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We're doing EXACTLY that, and at least 99% of us are doing it in a civilized manner. I fail to see why it's such a big deal that some people are making just a few suggestions to what they would like the rule to be. Just because people post things you disagree with does not make them wrong and does not make them stupid...

I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I do personally believe that most of us are likely very happy with this change to a large degree, but even if we're 99% happy with it, why wouldn't we push for the last 1%, ESPECIALLY when we're told we can comment and make suggestions?

Jaz, the discussion over the threshold number just reflects where we each believe the line should be between a "smaller trade" and one that's large enough to warrant requiring expensive shipping options. I do not see $100 as warranting $4-5+ shipping within the US, while I certainly do see requiring that for a $250+ deal (and maybe as low as $200). I believe this will simply be a difference in perspective and there is certainly no right or wrong. And yes, we can always ask for waivers, but where the default rule is set is still important.

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Originally posted by stu55:
That wasnt 100% at you Dave, just frustration that this has caused so much disagreement over something that is simply solved, I think ppl in general think they are owed more than.they are

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No matter what is decided in the end, there will always be people who disagree. Especially on a forum with x-thousand members.
People have the option to put their voice in, then a decision will be made, based on good and fair judgment, and everyone will have to go with it. Some will like it, some won't.

As Ernst Happel* once famously said: Kein gelul, FuBball spielen (which translates in something like: Cut all the other crap, let's play ball).

*for those of you that don't know, a former famous soccer player/coach from Austria

__________________
/Thunder in the wind/No rain/Peace mourns its passing/

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sorry, not gonna repeat myself for the sake of a troll.

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Sorry if its hard to read just my 2 cents

changes are fine.

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Originally posted by Vegas10:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jazaray:
I honestly don't see why you guys have a problem with $100 limit. You were all worried because you didn't want to send registered/sig confim etc, with smaller trades. This solves that. Over $100, IMHO, you should be sending insured/registered/sig confirm already..

Thanks,
Jazaray

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Originally posted by rats60:
There is nothing stopping you from insuring all packages over 100.00 for 200.00 to get the signature on file. It will cost a whole 55 cents more.

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You can, but that's also illegal. The chances you'll get caught are probably the same chances regular mail goes missing anyway...

__________________
Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
You can, but that's also illegal. The chances you'll get caught are probably the same chances regular mail goes missing anyway...

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You can insure for any amount you like. You may not be able to collect on it, since you'll have to prove value, but there's nothing stopping you from insuring for whatever value you like.

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
You can insure for any amount you like. You may not be able to collect on it, since you'll have to prove value, but there's nothing stopping you from insuring for whatever value you like.

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I thought this was pretty obvious... thanks though for your clarification 'Slinga.

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
You can insure for any amount you like. You may not be able to collect on it, since you'll have to prove value, but there's nothing stopping you from insuring for whatever value you like.

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What reference will be used to determine value of cards?
The over-inflated SCG
the rarely-updated MOTL guide
ebay bin-auctions that vary wildly
tcgplayer or something similar that gives a variety of results and conditions
Personal preference?

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Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
question:

What reference will be used to determine value of cards?
The over-inflated SCG
the rarely-updated MOTL guide
ebay bin-auctions that vary wildly
tcgplayer or something similar that gives a variety of results and conditions
Personal preference?

I could see issues arising from disputes over 100 dollars as the give-and-take ratio could be easily 20 dollars either way, depending on reference.

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Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
question:

What reference will be used to determine value of cards?
The over-inflated SCG
the rarely-updated MOTL guide
ebay bin-auctions that vary wildly
tcgplayer or something similar that gives a variety of results and conditions
Personal preference?

I could see issues arising from disputes over 100 dollars as the give-and-take ratio could be easily 20 dollars either way, depending on reference.

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Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
You can insure for any amount you like. You may not be able to collect on it, since you'll have to prove value, but there's nothing stopping you from insuring for whatever value you like.

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Actually no, that's insurance fraud. You are declaring value on a legal document. Read the disclosures on the form.

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Originally posted by Vegas10:
That is true, but if you knowingly put down a false value that is mail fraud, however unless the amount is large it is unlikley USPS would use the resources it take to go after someone for that.

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Except you are dealing with a collectible that has no fixed value. Unless you are selling cards, you can put down whatever you feel within reason. Putting down 200.00 for a trade that is over 100 by the MOTL PG is like valuing your cards at retail, which a lot of people on here already try to do.

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Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
question:

What reference will be used to determine value of cards?
The over-inflated SCG
the rarely-updated MOTL guide
ebay bin-auctions that vary wildly
tcgplayer or something similar that gives a variety of results and conditions
Personal preference?

I could see issues arising from disputes over 100 dollars as the give-and-take ratio could be easily 20 dollars either way, depending on reference.

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How about this argument? The cards are worth an amount that someone was willing to buy it at. If I sell something to you for $500, the belief should be that is what the actual value of the package is. All I would ever need to do is show a sales invoice or the -amil agreeing to values.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My 2008 Nationals)

The important part is that my post office made me bring in something showing the item that was inside and why it was so much money. I printed out an ebay auction where a UL Saph had gone for like $395. This was the evidence they needed when submitting the claim, to their office in St Louis, not any emails I had with the buyer for how much he had bought it for.

Just sayin', idk if you would be able to use SCG price printout or w/e if submitting for an insurance claim.

And I think it took about a month from submission of claim to getting a check if anyone was wondering. I'm not sure if any of their policies have changed since then, but thats the only time I have an example of a high $ item getting lost and how the insurance process worked.

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Originally posted by flophaus:
I thought this was pretty obvious... thanks though for your clarification 'Slinga.

Some people just don't understand things presented by Captain Obvious.

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Hey, no one likes a kiss-ass.
How about you describe obvious to me? Since i don't seem to understand. 'Cause, its not like USPS insurance poilcies are a widely talked about subject in public forums, media, and around the break area at work. So where was this "presented" obviously?
I considered it obviously illegal since that is lying and my local postal employee told me it was mail fraud.

Thanks for your unhelpful crap post in response to someone trying to help anyway.

__________________
Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
Hey, no one likes a kiss-ass.
How about you describe obvious to me? Since i don't seem to understand. 'Cause, its not like USPS insurance poilcies are a widely talked about subject in public forums, media, and around the break area at work. So where was this "presented" obviously?
I considered it obviously illegal since that is lying and my local postal employee told me it was mail fraud.

Thanks for your unhelpful crap post in response to someone trying to help anyway.

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How is it fraud? The only one out is the person paying for the insurance. What is obvious is you have no experience dealing with postal insurance claims.