quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
I'm just curious how he could twist "I am a Cit"? Also, since he replied "I am not a mafia" which wasn't one of your options for his answer, does that mean something?

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He could have justified it as all Mafia are technically citizens because they are part of the village or they vote or something else, theoretically. I'm satisfied with his answer at this time unless I see a reason to question his "I can't lie" stance.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Try to thin out the votes so we can see where the Mafia plan to tip the scale on it. so if you havent voted yet vote for some one who has no votes attached.

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Just for future reference, it's usually not a good idea to tell the Mafia what you're wanting to do and give them the ability to not do what you're expecting. I know fwy was a cit, so it wasn't intentional, but just general info for everyone.

Just got a big project handed to me, so I'll have wait until tonight to analyze the rest of the game.

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With Kwas gone, the pile originally for fwy is down to just me. I don't think this exonerates me or says anything about me, but I sure hope the pattern doesn't continue. This was the largest pile in the first round (aside from novotes), so until we determine the roles of the other people voted for, we're not left with much here.

In the 3 way tiebreaker vote, both Kwas and Evil C were eliminated, eliminating a whole pile voting for Revenger. We know that Evil-C was a cit, and Bernek technically voted for him well after the establishment of his innocence. Posthumously.

Say we managed to discover Rev or Bern (either or) as a citizen or a mafia. My mind wants to think this will help us with this pile analysis. Would that work, or is there too many holes in my thought?

Tentatively Voting
Bernek77 to go along with the above logic.

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
No, I am not Mafia.

Yes I did google it. and still don"t completely understand it. Does it mean a play on words? Doesit mean role reversal? Does it mean not trust them to tell the truth? Does it mean I am an idiot for not understanding it? (I say yes)

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Ok, I'll try and explain it so you can understand.

WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me - taken from the scene in The Princess Bride where Vizzini and "Dread Pirate Roberts" do their battle of the wits. If you've seen the movie 3 times, you should know the scene fairly well, if not it's here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0. (Btw, I LOVE that movie )

Basically, it's an argument saying that goes nowhere. You stating that the Mafia wouldn't normally do *this*, so that means I'm not Mafia. However, that could be exactly WHY a Mafia member would do that.

"A Mafia member wouldn't be so silent and miss votes" - - Well, if that's what we all think, wouldn't it be a good idea to do that as a Mafia member? So you could insist that "Mafia don't do that, so I'm not Mafia".

Perhaps that explanation isn't the greatest, but it's the best I can do.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:

Basically, it's an argument saying that goes nowhere.

"A Mafia member wouldn't be so silent and miss votes" - - Well, if that's what we all think, wouldn't it be a good idea to do that as a Mafia member? So you could insist that "Mafia don't do that, so I'm not Mafia".

Perhaps that explanation isn't the greatest, but it's the best I can do.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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The 1st sentence is the best understanding for me. Esentially, it's an argument that loops itself around and around. It constantly goes back and forth, leaving no explanation and/or reason behind the argument.

Is that right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
The 1st sentence is the best understanding for me. Esentially, it's an argument that loops itself around and around. It constantly goes back and forth, leaving no explanation and/or reason behind the argument.

Is that right?

---

Thanks,
Jazaray

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Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

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The only thing that caught my eye is that Mardak5150 has missed 2 of the 3 votes. At best he's not doing the Cits any favors, at worst, he's trying to avoid attention. Either way, he's the one I feel most comfortable voting for assuming nothing else comes up.

Voting Mardak5150

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Those of you who are suspicious of Bernek:
Do you think there was a strong push to pile against him here? It doesn't seem that way to me, and I suspect we might have been voting up two citizens in the tiebreaker. I didn't get a sense of urgency from anyone, and a lot of votes seem to have been cast based on the better of two not so good options. I realize Revenger was there as well, but he didn't garner much interest during the tie break. If there was a strong push, what makes you think so?

At this time, I'm tempted to think that Bernek is not a suspect.

Those of you who didn't vote:
Who would you have voted for? Why?

quote:

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Originally posted by hilikuS:

Those of you who didn't vote:
Who would you have voted for? Why?

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I don't like this. It's too easy to hide/manipulate without knowing that those who didn't vote are in fact villagers. As well as knowing the ID of the dead villager.

Again, I am at work and will look over (and around all the WIFOM crap ) and post later or tomorrow.

~MM

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My vote this round will be for Player X.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mardak5150:
Missing a tie breaker vote isn't as big of a deal as a regularly scheduled vote. One days notice isn't much. The first vote I missed cause it tooka month to get the game started . My feelings tell me if Snapshot needed to be replaced he was probably something, most likely mafia. And then Nder wants us to believe voting a somewhat silent player is a good idea. Okay that's two strikes against you. Got anything else for a third? I'll be waiting...

Voting: Nder

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Missing any vote is a problem, because it gives everyone less information.

Even if you really do believe that only role players get replaced, you do know that not all role players are bad guys, right?

Finally, considering that there isn't a whole lot else to go on, yes, getting rid of silent players is absolutely a good idea. Silent players hurt the Citizens, and the later in the game they're around, the better off the Mafia are.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by hilikuS:
This is not good. We almost had a tie between the guy that got lynched during the tiebreaker, and the No Vote pile.

Those of you who are suspicious of Bernek:
Do you think there was a strong push to pile against him here? It doesn't seem that way to me, and I suspect we might have been voting up two citizens in the tiebreaker. I didn't get a sense of urgency from anyone, and a lot of votes seem to have been cast based on the better of two not so good options. I realize Revenger was there as well, but he didn't garner much interest during the tie break. If there was a strong push, what makes you think so?

At this time, I'm tempted to think that Bernek is not a suspect.

Those of you who didn't vote:
Who would you have voted for? Why?

I suspect that we are on the wrong track though all together. It seems to be a case of the citizenry being all whacked out, and the mafia just letting it simmer.

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My prime suspect is still Bernek though, by this time last game he had already pointed the finger at 3 people while arguing with 2 others. This game seems relatively tame for him which raises a flag for me, especially since he has already garnered so many votes. I was kinda surprised he got so many votes though since it looked like a 2 horse race between Revenger and Evil-C at the beginning with all the Bernek votes coming in near the end in succession.

quote:

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Originally posted by scipio624:

I was kinda surprised he got so many votes though since it looked like a 2 horse race between Revenger and Evil-C at the beginning with all the Bernek votes coming in near the end in succession.

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Doesn't that make Bernek less of a suspect though? Logically, if one of Evil-C or Revenger was mafia, the mafia might try to make a late run at someone else to save one of their own. What better candidate for that than Bernek? Considering Evil-C is dead, that leaves questions about Revenger. Although, like I said in my previous post, I don't think any of the 3 are high on my suspect list.

quote:

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Originally posted by scipio624:

I don't know how useful asking the non voters who they would have voted for and why, any info given now would have to be taken with a grain of salt since we now know Evil was a cit, but anything that gets people talking is good. My vote is leaning to Bernek but I'll hold off until more people chime in with their thoughts.

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As far as the Bernek train that seems to be gaining speed, this is usually the part of the game where my Bernek suspicion is the highest but I don't see anything different in his game than usual. He did call for a flushing out of silents, but that's very typical of him.

My concern at the moment is that Nder still has his vote for me even though his reasons for voting for me were missing 2 votes (one because we took a month to fill, and the second cause a vote on 24 hour notice caught me sleeping) and cause of my silence. Well my silence is broken and he's still got a vote my way, sounds a little clingy and premeditated.

I think we need to lynch either revenger or Bernek. However, lynching revenger is less optimal, because the pile that voted for him is now nonexistant, so if he pans out to be a villager, we don't get any more information.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mardak5150:
I do know that not all roles are bad but there are WAAAAY more bad roles right now than good roles. And voting out silent players is a great way for a mafioso to sit back and watch suspicion pile up on someone who isn't going to defend themself.

As far as the Bernek train that seems to be gaining speed, this is usually the part of the game where my Bernek suspicion is the highest but I don't see anything different in his game than usual. He did call for a flushing out of silents, but that's very typical of him.

My concern at the moment is that Nder still has his vote for me even though his reasons for voting for me were missing 2 votes (one because we took a month to fill, and the second cause a vote on 24 hour notice caught me sleeping) and cause of my silence. Well my silence is broken and he's still got a vote my way, sounds a little clingy and premeditated.

Vote: Nder just to be clear

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Since when is 3 WAY MORE than 2?

It's just as likely that the Mafia will play the silent role as they will to let them be picked off. Any competent Mafia member knows that silents are their best friends. If silent players stay, we all lose, sad but true fact.

I'm still voting for you because there's nothing else to lead me to vote for anyone, and you're only not silent because you're whining about my reasons for voting for you, not making any real attempt at locating Mafia. If you feel like actually contributing and helping, great, otherwise it's in all of our best interest to remove you. At worst, it frees us up to focus on killing the Mafia, at best, it gives us one less baddie to deal with.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Kyosukee:
We voted up Evil C pretty quickly. The bernek votes were all at the end. The mafia had no reason to make a late run, especially seeing how it panned out that Evil-C was not mafia. Furthermore, the pile that had voted for revenger got killed/is now dead. This Kwas kill could be seen as tied to revenger, if we were to conjecture enough.

I think we need to lynch either revenger or Bernek. However, lynching revenger is less optimal, because the pile that voted for him is now nonexistant, so if he pans out to be a villager, we don't get any more information.

This, and his after-evil-c-is-dead-vote-for-evil-c, is why I'm still voting bernek.

---

Can you elaborate on why you think we need to kill one of those 2? Is it just for pile analysis, or another reason I'm missing (my brain may not be working right, it's late on a Friday).

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The mafia effectively got rid of one pile in round 1 (the one for fwy, seeing as fwy, the people who voted for him sans me are dead), and another pile in this round. We might have a better idea of figuring out how the 3 vote tie went down by using the tiebreaker vote, since we narrowed it down by confirming Evil-C cit on the lynch, and the Mafia finishing off the pile on Revenger in the tiebreaker vote. If we've got nothing better to go on besides omgsus and voting silent players (I can see the merits to this, but with one silent player replaced, another one talking, and.. volc as volc, I'm not sure I want to go here just yet), we can use what we have and see if we can shake down a pile.

If my logic is bad, I apologize, but say, we end up lynching Bernek.

Now, based on that, say:
a) bernek was a mafia
We could then look at the evil-c pile a little closer, since one pile, the revenger pile, is gone, and the final tiebreaker vote (minus berneks since he was after the lynch) was for the cit) was in this pile
b) bernek was a cit
not sure, but both ways, the revenger pile from the original tied vote is once again eliminated; if bernek is a cit, i'd want to look more at revenger, based on the fact that two sets of piles (albeit the piles shared kwas) were eliminated.

The B is harder for me :3

Im just throwing out my thoughts on this; i dont know if it's good logic or not, it's just the way my mind is thinking about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyosukee:
Pile Analysis.

The mafia effectively got rid of one pile in round 1 (the one for fwy, seeing as fwy, the people who voted for him sans me are dead), and another pile in this round. We might have a better idea of figuring out how the 3 vote tie went down by using the tiebreaker vote, since we narrowed it down by confirming Evil-C cit on the lynch, and the Mafia finishing off the pile on Revenger in the tiebreaker vote. If we've got nothing better to go on besides omgsus and voting silent players (I can see the merits to this, but with one silent player replaced, another one talking, and.. volc as volc, I'm not sure I want to go here just yet), we can use what we have and see if we can shake down a pile.

If my logic is bad, I apologize, but say, we end up lynching Bernek.

Now, based on that, say:
a) bernek was a mafia
We could then look at the evil-c pile a little closer, since one pile, the revenger pile, is gone, and the final tiebreaker vote (minus berneks since he was after the lynch) was for the cit) was in this pile
b) bernek was a cit
not sure, but both ways, the revenger pile from the original tied vote is once again eliminated; if bernek is a cit, i'd want to look more at revenger, based on the fact that two sets of piles (albeit the piles shared kwas) were eliminated.

The B is harder for me :3

Im just throwing out my thoughts on this; i dont know if it's good logic or not, it's just the way my mind is thinking about it.

---

To me, it seems that eliminating silents is more important than pile analysis at this point. Waiting to get rid of the people that don't talk just means toward the end we're stuck with the bad decision of axing someone who's not been helpful or someone who is semi-suspicious. The earlier you ferret out the silents, the more information you have in the endgame when pile analysis is most effective. I'm not sure we can glean enough information from the limited number of votes so far given the high number of non-votes we've been dealing with.

I'd be willing to change my vote to Volcanon due to his missed vote and otherwise complete lack of useful posting if others are satisfied with Mardak's participation and he promises to pay more attention to voting and talking in the future.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by SolonJhee:
Sorry I haven't posted much, I'm at GP Vegas posting on my phone. Ill weigh in more later when I'm back at my hotel.

---

I won,t be attenting GP Vegas now. Pity. unforseen finicially strapped.

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I still say that there is at least one vet in the mafia. I. Sticking with my initial vote. I feel lime the other wolves have pushed and Influenced him into saying hes a cit. He didnt answer right away that he was a cit that he has in other games.

Voting: Revenger

I'm in Vegas for the GP so im typing from my phone if it doesn't bold

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
Kyo you have absolutely no reason to point at me.

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quote:

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Your reasoning is even worse.

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So... I guess I do have reasoning.

quote:

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You are one of the better players since you have started playing and this game so far is off for you.......its pretty interesting if you ask me.

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You buddy me by stating my apparently decent level of play in previous games, then attempt to discredit my argument not by discrediting my argument, but by discrediting my level of play? Looks like smokescreening to me.

Finally, you insinuating my style of play is pretty 'interesting' to you as to point out some suspect moves on my behalf. But you... you seem to stop right there from accusing me of anything outright. Not sure how I feel about that.

quote:

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Originally posted by SolonJhee:
I'm on my phone so I'm not sure it will bold, but ill vote for nderdog until otherwise persuaded. I agree with mardak thinking that they needed to replace someone important aka mafia.

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MasterWolf isn't stupid enough to only replace roleplayers. If you kill me, you'll find that out, but please don't use such terrible reasons for voting. We've lost too many already without identifying any Mafia and giving up another round just because you think that only some inactives would be replaced is only going to hurt us even more.

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