quote:

---

Originally posted by JayC:
Talk to Stu, he says he's made hundreds of thousands of dollars.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
+1

---

I don't know why Stu is being roped into this...but I can assure you, as a personal friend of mine, without bias I HAVE seen his books on total sales, net profits, and such for given years. I also know exactly how much he pays for his car, rent, and general lifestyle he leads...bc I do hang out with him a lot. Trust me....what he gets off unemployment since he lost his job, and what he owes out far exceeds one another and he is making that much from MTG., and has made that much.

You don't have to believe me, quite honestly don't care either...but it's rather rude to throw someone under the bus when they weren't even a part of the conversation.

I stand witness that he acutually made/makes that much money off MTG.

That said.....

Rats, I'm sorry but it truly does sound like you are upset that you lost the house on JTMS and Thoughtseize recently....and I'm gonig to have to agree with Viper, if anyone thinks that this card(Lorwyn or Theros version) wont be $15 within a month(and dropping)....you're high, and I WANT what you're on.

Hallowed Fountain went from $45+ to $7......$7 damn doll hairs is what I can purchase one at right now. I can pick up DIS ones for $12-15 all day.....and it's played a hell of a lot more than TS.

This set has roughly 20 cards spoiled...and if anything crazy happens(like Fetch lands) this will break all records for sales...and being that it's at regualr rare, and it's not the biggest staple, it's gonna hurt this card a LOT in value.

Yes, always nice to have the original artwork....but the new artwork might be better. Or it just might get to the point that nobody is gonna pay 3x the amount for the same card without some form of foil/russian/korean language disparity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:

I don't know why Stu is being roped into this...but I can assure you, as a personal friend of mine, without bias I HAVE seen his books on total sales, net profits, and such for given years. I also know exactly how much he pays for his car, rent, and general lifestyle he leads...bc I do hang out with him a lot. Trust me....what he gets off unemployment since he lost his job, and what he owes out far exceeds one another and he is making that much from MTG., and has made that much.

You don't have to believe me, quite honestly don't care either...but it's rather rude to throw someone under the bus when they weren't even a part of the conversation.

I stand witness that he acutually made/makes that much money off MTG.

That said.....

Rats, I'm sorry but it truly does sound like you are upset that you lost the house on JTMS and Thoughtseize recently....and I'm gonig to have to agree with Viper, if anyone thinks that this card(Lorwyn or Theros version) wont be $15 within a month(and dropping)....you're high, and I WANT what you're on.

Hallowed Fountain went from $45+ to $7......$7 damn doll hairs is what I can purchase one at right now. I can pick up DIS ones for $12-15 all day.....and it's played a hell of a lot more than TS.

This set has roughly 20 cards spoiled...and if anything crazy happens(like Fetch lands) this will break all records for sales...and being that it's at regualr rare, and it's not the biggest staple, it's gonna hurt this card a LOT in value.

Yes, always nice to have the original artwork....but the new artwork might be better. Or it just might get to the point that nobody is gonna pay 3x the amount for the same card without some form of foil/russian/korean language disparity.

I wouldn't doubt that come Christmas you are looking at $7 Theros TS. Possibly $12-15 Lorwyn TS.

---

On Stu part, I was in favor of him actually making as much as he says, guy knows what he is doing.

for the rest agreed, I see Thoughtseize going much lower once Theros actually hits the market, and the supply is increased a ton.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
On Stu part, I was in favor of him actually making as much as he says, guy knows what he is doing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:

I don't know why Stu is being roped into this...but I can assure you, as a personal friend of mine, without bias I HAVE seen his books on total sales, net profits, and such for given years. I also know exactly how much he pays for his car, rent, and general lifestyle he leads...bc I do hang out with him a lot. Trust me....what he gets off unemployment since he lost his job, and what he owes out far exceeds one another and he is making that much from MTG., and has made that much.

You don't have to believe me, quite honestly don't care either...but it's rather rude to throw someone under the bus when they weren't even a part of the conversation.

I stand witness that he acutually made/makes that much money off MTG.

That said.....

Rats, I'm sorry but it truly does sound like you are upset that you lost the house on JTMS and Thoughtseize recently....and I'm gonig to have to agree with Viper, if anyone thinks that this card(Lorwyn or Theros version) wont be $15 within a month(and dropping)....you're high, and I WANT what you're on.

Hallowed Fountain went from $45+ to $7......$7 damn doll hairs is what I can purchase one at right now. I can pick up DIS ones for $12-15 all day.....and it's played a hell of a lot more than TS.

This set has roughly 20 cards spoiled...and if anything crazy happens(like Fetch lands) this will break all records for sales...and being that it's at regualr rare, and it's not the biggest staple, it's gonna hurt this card a LOT in value.

Yes, always nice to have the original artwork....but the new artwork might be better. Or it just might get to the point that nobody is gonna pay 3x the amount for the same card without some form of foil/russian/korean language disparity.

I wouldn't doubt that come Christmas you are looking at $7 Theros TS. Possibly $12-15 Lorwyn TS.

---

QUOTE]Originally posted by rats60:
I can't see them holding at more than 20 if you wait.[/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by rats60:
QUOTE]Originally posted by rats60:
I can't see them holding at more than 20 if you wait.

---

You need to learn how to read. I'm the first one who said Thoughtseize would be dropping below 20 after Theros is released. That said, if you want to dump yours NOW for 20, I'll buy them and flip them while they're still 35. Oh, and Viper said I was wrong about Thoughtseize.[/QUOTE]

Sorry...too much bickering for me to read through it all. If that's your stance, that safe buys at $20 to flip for $35, how long does your window stay open until you get caught w your pants down? If it's not closing already.

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Yea, I'm sorry and I apologize to you...the other quote just sounded like a cheap shot...I really had no idea wtf your +1 meant.

---

I saw the other one as proof that just because someone states how much they make doesn't mean they are a wannabe dealer, least that's how I saw it, and I agree, how vocale one is holds no relevance to how good you are.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JayC:
Talk to Stu, he says he's made hundreds of thousands of dollars.

---

Really?? You actually want to start something?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Hallowed Fountain went from $45+ to $7......$7 damn doll hairs is what I can purchase one at right now. I can pick up DIS ones for $12-15 all day.....and it's played a hell of a lot more than TS.

This set has roughly 20 cards spoiled...and if anything crazy happens(like Fetch lands) this will break all records for sales...and being that it's at regualr rare, and it's not the biggest staple, it's gonna hurt this card a LOT in value.

Yes, always nice to have the original artwork....but the new artwork might be better. Or it just might get to the point that nobody is gonna pay 3x the amount for the same card without some form of foil/russian/korean language disparity.

---

First, it's absolutely NOT played less than Hallowed Fountain unless you count standard, which is a format that Thoughtseize is currently illegal in, so that would be a pretty silly way to look at it. Thoughtseize is played in Shardless BUG, Deathblade, Jund, Elves, Reanimator and some forms of Storm in legacy alone, where Hallowed Fountain sees absolutely 0 play as it is strictly worse than Tundra.
In Modern terms of the top tier decks, Thoughtseize is a 4 of in Melira and Jund/BG, while Hallowed Fountain is a two of in UWR Control.
And if Thoughtseize WERE legal in standard, it would likely be played in every deck with black cards there as well just like in the formats where it actually is legal.
Again, saying nothing about pricing, you guys know more about that than I, but from a playability perspective, I've played A LOT of the two constructed formats Thoughtseize is legal in (and played it a bunch in standard), and the card is the blade.

As for Fetchlands in Theros, that's not going to happen. "Again, I believe the lands we have in place for Theros block are wonderful, but they do not offer the same level of ease and power with three-color mana bases as the shockland/M10-dual-land combination." - Sam Stoddard, developer for Theros.

Given that Fetchlands are the absolute best thing ever with Shocks, they will not be back until the next block at the earliest.

quote:

---

Originally posted by stu55:
Really?? You actually want to start something?

As for topic, this should be a $15-$25 short-term, meta depending, long term $35-$40 assuming no other mass reprint

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bottlecaps:
hundred of thousands of dollars?? do stores really make tht much selling magic cards? hundred thousand per yr would be pretty nice already

---

He never said he made that much in a year, I believe he is talking lifetime profits.

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneofchaos:
I usually agree with you, but since when does a rare from the first set of a block ever stabilize at 30+?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bottlecaps:
hundred of thousands of dollars?? do stores really make tht much selling magic cards? hundred thousand per yr would be pretty nice already

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bottlecaps:
hundred of thousands of dollars?? do stores really make tht much selling magic cards? hundred thousand per yr would be pretty nice already

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bottlecaps:
hundred of thousands of dollars?? do stores really make tht much selling magic cards? hundred thousand per yr would be pretty nice already

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by James_Hetfield2:
New art:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=145082&d=1378001132

---

if someone knew how to use a camera, i might like it more. dont care for the flavor text though (not that lorwyn was particularly good either). ill keep my old ones.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

quote:

---

Originally posted by thror:
[QUOTE]if someone knew how to use a camera, i might like it more.

---

+ infinity

Really? Who the hell thinks that's acceptable in 2013? My 4 year old Neice can take a better picture with her Dora the Explorer camera...jeebus

Well from what I can kinda see the new art looks interesting, but I can't honestly tell you what it is as the head is pretty much cut out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WinkyBlitzen:
[In Modern terms of the top tier decks, Thoughtseize is a 4 of in Melira and Jund/BG, while Hallowed Fountain is a two of in UWR Control.
And if Thoughtseize WERE legal in standard, it would likely be played in every deck with black cards

---

1. Please people stop using Modern. It's not a 4x in the main to either of these decks...and it's strickly a 4x in the SB for Pod.

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:

1. Please people stop using Modern. It's not a 4x in the main to either of these decks...and it's strickly a 4x in the SB for Pod.

2.If TS was in Standard it would be a 2-3x main in two decks. Two.

---

I'm not sure what it being in the sideboard has to do with anything, it's still a 4-of in the 75 in both of those decks, and you still have the buy the cards. I get why "it's just a sideboard card" matters in cases of cards that may or may not be in the sideboard of everyone's deck (like Canonist or Lingering Souls or Kataki with regard to Melira), but that's not Thoughtseize. It's the most important sideboard card in the deck, which is why 4 are played, and depending on the meta, at least 2 move to the main in every Pod deck worth its salt. It's a 4 of in the sideboard of Manfield, Bing, Pardee, and Cuneo's versions. Not to mention the 3 Main/1 SB in Jund.

The general prices for the llorwyn thoughtseize (Europe) are dropping like crazy. They can be had for €20,-

Source: https://www.magiccardmarket.eu/Thoughtseize_Lorwyn.c1p17886.prod

quote:

---

Originally posted by WinkyBlitzen:
I'm not sure what it being in the sideboard has to do with anything, it's still a 4-of in the 75 in both of those decks, and you still have the buy the cards. I get why "it's just a sideboard card" matters in cases of cards that may or may not be in the sideboard of everyone's deck (like Canonist or Lingering Souls or Kataki with regard to Melira), but that's not Thoughtseize. It's the most important sideboard card in the deck, which is why 4 are played, and depending on the meta, at least 2 move to the main in every Pod deck worth its salt. It's a 4 of in the sideboard of Manfield, Bing, Pardee, and Cuneo's versions. Not to mention the 3 Main/1 SB in Jund.

As for standard, it would definitely be 2 main at least, but there's no way I'd sleeve up a deck without 4 between main and side if I was playing black. If you're playing a black deck (excepting certain combo decks) in any format where it's legal and don't have access to four after board, you're likely doing it wrong. The last time it was in standard the only event I can think of where a black deck didn't play Thoughtseize was Kyoto in BW tokens, and even then, some versions did have it, but it was always a 4 of main in BG Elves, and 4 in the 75 for Faeries.

---

I don't get why "still having to buy the cards" is relevant. If you look at the decks from the WC in Amsterdamn you'll notice that it was even par split between TS and Inquisition. TS might not even be the best option for B discard in Modern. The other big event, the GP in KC, TS was a 4x in the board. NOTICE....the only deck that ran 4x in the main was W/B tokens. Not a tier 1 deck.

I wouldn't be so quick to jam these into my Standard deck either. Would I play some? Yea, probably, but it's not going to put any B deck over the top. I think people too often forget that the last time this card was in Standard that yes, it was in the best deck. However, it wasn't this card that made it the best deck. It was the fact that Fae was the deck to beat and it was pretty much along for the ride as anyone can tell you that this card was probably the 9-10th most important spell in your deck.

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
I don't get why "still having to buy the cards" is relevant. If you look at the decks from the WC in Amsterdamn you'll notice that it was even par split between TS and Inquisition. TS might not even be the best option for B discard in Modern. The other big event, the GP in KC, TS was a 4x in the board. NOTICE....the only deck that ran 4x in the main was W/B tokens. Not a tier 1 deck.

I wouldn't be so quick to jam these into my Standard deck either. Would I play some? Yea, probably, but it's not going to put any B deck over the top. I think people too often forget that the last time this card was in Standard that yes, it was in the best deck. However, it wasn't this card that made it the best deck. It was the fact that Fae was the deck to beat and it was pretty much along for the ride as anyone can tell you that this card was probably the 9-10th most important spell in your deck.

Please people....remember how powerful Fea was, and it wasn't bc of TS. It was because of the overall synergy of that deck and that it had such powerful cards(Bitterblossom, Spellstutter, Mistbind Clique, Scion, V.Clique etc etc....) that all worked so well together. It's not like if you are building a B deck you auto start with 4xTS, far from it actually...and meta dependant Inqusition can be just as good if not better in Modern.

---

With regard to buying the card, I just mean that even if they are board cards, they are still just as important to your deck working properly, and you still need them if you really want to win, particularly in the case of a card like Thoughtseize that you need against every combo deck (of which there are a few in Modern) when playing Pod.

As for Seize vs. Inquisition, not hitting Splinter Twin, Kiki-Jiki, Cryptic Command, Karn, Wurmcoil Engine, Scapeshift, Primeval Titan, Birthing Pod, and countless other important cards is too much of a beating if your only discard is Inquisition. If you play both, you can likely split them (like in Jund, for instance) since you can take the lower cost cards that you might have grabbed with Seize with IoK while still having Seize for the crucial 3+ cards, but if you only have 4 discard slots, like Pod, you really need to play Seize, because inquisition just misses too many important cards.

As for standard, you are definitely right that it's less good than in older formats because there is generally more of a flat power level to the cards in decks vs. Modern where there are cards like Birthing Pod and Scapeshift and Splinter Twin/Kiki-Jiki that are the key card to your deck functioning, and losing it can greatly decrease the value of other cards in your hand, but even in standard, there are still important cards that decks hinge on like Revelation and Opportunity that you need to hit, while unlike Duress, not being dead against more aggressive and/or creature based strategies.

The most recent example - Deathrite shaman. DRS arguably sees more multi-format play than any other rare printed in the last 5 years, and it's readily available for $13 on TCG. Yes, DRS peaked at around $20 for a solid month, but the sheer number of copies being opened nowadays means that a playset of Theros TS's are going to be, at a minimum, cheaper than DRS by the time the 2nd Theros set hits release.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
Winky & Daner - You guys are both kinda missing the point in regards to it's price, namely the fact that the first-set print runs for the most recent blocks are MASSIVE. It's less an issue of how much play the card sees, and more an issue of how many people need to pick up a playset.

The most recent example - Deathrite shaman. DRS arguably sees more multi-format play than any other rare printed in the last 5 years, and it's readily available for $13 on TCG. Yes, DRS peaked at around $20 for a solid month, but the sheer number of copies being opened nowadays means that a playset of Theros TS's are going to be, at a minimum, cheaper than DRS by the time the 2nd Theros set hits release.

---