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Author Topic:   Helvault contents have been spoiled!
nailbunny7
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posted April 19, 2012 09:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for nailbunny7 Click Here to Email nailbunny7 Send a private message to nailbunny7 Click to send nailbunny7 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
What did you expect foil promo Black Lotus?

I like what's in it and its what I would have expected Promos that are useful with the lore of the storyline not free cards to add to your standard deck.



I was more hoping for roughly the same cards they have in there now, but maybe alt art or foil and regular card size, for edh and such.

 
Jtrade77
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posted April 19, 2012 10:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jtrade77 Send a private message to Jtrade77 Click to send Jtrade77 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Was I the only expecting old surplus promos from player rewards and alternate art playable angels and demons? (Not oversized, deck playable.)

These contents are a disappointment.

 
Bugger
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posted April 19, 2012 10:41 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
ITT: "This thing I am getting entirely for free sucks! I deserve better!"

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thror
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posted April 19, 2012 10:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
ITT: "This thing I am getting entirely for free sucks! I deserve better!"


No, its fine that this is the free stuff. As said, they didn't have to do anything extra. But when you HYPE it so hard, and it turns out to be junk, people get disappointed.

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HandicapParking
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posted April 19, 2012 12:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HandicapParking Click Here to Email HandicapParking Send a private message to HandicapParking Click to send HandicapParking an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes we do deserve better. We line their pockets and they feed us garbage.

quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
ITT: "This thing I am getting entirely for free sucks! I deserve better!"


 
daner
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posted April 19, 2012 12:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
If you are going to hand out promos hand out promos people can actually play with or are not a pain in the ass to collect. Oversized cards can't be used to play with and like people have said aren't even carried around to trade bc they are so big and bulky. Yes, we are allowed to be upset and question why WOTC would hype and give us promos to a CCG that well....can't be collected or played.
 
MAB_Rapper
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posted April 19, 2012 01:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MAB_Rapper Click Here to Email MAB_Rapper Send a private message to MAB_Rapper Click to send MAB_Rapper an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or SaleView MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by daner:
If you are going to hand out promos hand out promos people can actually play with or are not a pain in the ass to collect. Oversized cards can't be used to play with and like people have said aren't even carried around to trade bc they are so big and bulky. Yes, we are allowed to be upset and question why WOTC would hype and give us promos to a CCG that well....can't be collected or played.

I'm sure they can be collected, though I'm not sure why.

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junichi
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posted April 19, 2012 01:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
This is basically a glass half-full / half-empty situation.

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gcowhsu
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posted April 19, 2012 03:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
The oversized cards are bad. Once you realize that a commander can get bounced to your hand or shuffled in your deck it really makes the whole idea worthless.
 
Bugger
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posted April 19, 2012 04:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HandicapParking:
Yes we do deserve better. We line their pockets and they feed us garbage.


LOL. Yes, we do pay their salaries. That is exactly how businesses work. You figured it out!

Also that doesn't actually factor in here, because again, it's entirely for free.

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caquaa
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posted April 19, 2012 04:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
Also that doesn't actually factor in here, because again, it's entirely for free.

it does factor in when "for free" doesn't mean they produced it for free. They could have spent the same money and produced something better...
first foil tokens released by wotc?
alternate art angel/demons instead of over sized?

plenty that people would be much more happy with. I think the token is decent. The dice is a pure waste as is the oversized card. If they want this to be special, then they should have given something special. Just because its free, doesn't mean it isn't crap.

 
rats60
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posted April 19, 2012 04:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for rats60 Click Here to Email rats60 Send a private message to rats60 Click to send rats60 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rats60's Have/Want ListView rats60's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
LOL. Yes, we do pay their salaries. That is exactly how businesses work. You figured it out!

Also that doesn't actually factor in here, because again, it's entirely for free.


The prereleases are now free? That's news to me. I thought stores charged players for prereleases. If crappy prizes are provided, players won't waste their money on going to the prerelease. They already messed things up by doing away with the big prereleases. They've quit making good prerelease cards and having drafts, now this. Several players have already posted in here that they won't be going now that the prizes are known. This is not good.

 
Lord Crovax
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posted April 19, 2012 05:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lord Crovax Click Here to Email Lord Crovax Send a private message to Lord Crovax Click to send Lord Crovax an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rats60:
The prereleases are now free? That's news to me. I thought stores charged players for prereleases. If crappy prizes are provided, players won't waste their money on going to the prerelease. They already messed things up by doing away with the big prereleases. They've quit making good prerelease cards and having drafts, now this. Several players have already posted in here that they won't be going now that the prizes are known. This is not good.

Plus some stores charge more when extra's are added so it's not free for everyone.

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Bugger
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posted April 19, 2012 05:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by rats60:
The prereleases are now free? That's news to me. I thought stores charged players for prereleases. If crappy prizes are provided, players won't waste their money on going to the prerelease. They already messed things up by doing away with the big prereleases. They've quit making good prerelease cards and having drafts, now this. Several players have already posted in here that they won't be going now that the prizes are known. This is not good.

Yes, stores charge for the packs. As has been covered, stores are not being charged to order copies of these helvaults. That means that if stores are offering the helvault instead of the usual prize support, or if stores are charging more for helvault prerelease tournaments, that's on the store.

on the one hand, Wizards wants to try new things that players will enjoy, so if people find flaws in the helvault prizes (such as the fact that the cards included aren't useable in all formats and areas of play), that's one thing. Entitled whining about something that you didn't pay for is another thing entirely.

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WeedIan
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posted April 19, 2012 08:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
Yes, stores charge for the packs. As has been covered, stores are not being charged to order copies of these helvaults. That means that if stores are offering the helvault instead of the usual prize support, or if stores are charging more for helvault prerelease tournaments, that's on the store.

on the one hand, Wizards wants to try new things that players will enjoy, so if people find flaws in the helvault prizes (such as the fact that the cards included aren't useable in all formats and areas of play), that's one thing. Entitled whining about something that you didn't pay for is another thing entirely.


+1 from me.

I like the oversized cards as i said before and getting Free dice is always nice as well.

Maybe they could have given free cards from the set but doesn't that defeat the purpose of selling cards because if you give the cards people won't buy packs.

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Havoc Demon
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posted April 19, 2012 10:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Havoc Demon Click Here to Email Havoc Demon Send a private message to Havoc Demon Click to send Havoc Demon an Instant MessageVisit Havoc Demon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If you don't like it, just move what you get to someone who does. Problem solved.

It's better than tattoos and stickers...

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B14ckM4g3
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posted April 19, 2012 10:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
If you don't like it, just move what you get to someone who does. Problem solved.

It's better than tattoos and stickers...


I disagree. rub on tattoo of avacyn or griselband would be epic. and expansion symbol stickers?? Fuggidabouttit

 
boonta316
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posted April 20, 2012 08:58 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for boonta316 Send a private message to boonta316 Click to send boonta316 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
Yes, stores charge for the packs. As has been covered, stores are not being charged to order copies of these helvaults. That means that if stores are offering the helvault instead of the usual prize support, or if stores are charging more for helvault prerelease tournaments, that's on the store.

on the one hand, Wizards wants to try new things that players will enjoy, so if people find flaws in the helvault prizes (such as the fact that the cards included aren't useable in all formats and areas of play), that's one thing. Entitled whining about something that you didn't pay for is another thing entirely.


There was once a preeminent economist who famously stated, "nothing is free." He was correct then, and I would offer the suggestion that he is correct regarding this situation now, as well.
What needs to be understood is this is an example Wizard's of the Coast's advertising budget at work. This is how they advertise. They don't create television commercials (with a few exceptions in the ill fated past), they don't advertise in most large scale news publications, and they don't pay for billboards. The advertise through their website, and through their brick and mortar stores with event's such as Pre-releases (which hype up interest in the new sets they are releasing.) When Wizard's drops the ball, as I believe they have here, they have effectively paid for bad advertising. This is an issue. A serious issue. As their corporate mantra stated during Zendikar block "play = dollars". There is a direct correlation between how many people play in events and tournaments, and how many packs are sold. If people are disappointed in the quality of the "advertising" Wizards has produced for such events, then as with all bad advertising, they are apt to buy less product. I think anyone who is interested in the health of this game, should indeed raise their voice to Wizards about it. Consumer feedback is the only way Wizard's can gauge how effective their advertisement is. Indeed, I think those who attempt to discourage those who want to give feedback are the ones doing the rest of the community a disservice, not the supposed "whiners".

 
Bugger
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posted April 20, 2012 10:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bugger Click Here to Email Bugger Send a private message to Bugger Click to send Bugger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boonta316:
There was once a preeminent economist who famously stated, "nothing is free." He was correct then, and I would offer the suggestion that he is correct regarding this situation now, as well.
What needs to be understood is this is an example Wizard's of the Coast's advertising budget at work. This is how they advertise. They don't create television commercials (with a few exceptions in the ill fated past), they don't advertise in most large scale news publications, and they don't pay for billboards. The advertise through their website, and through their brick and mortar stores with event's such as Pre-releases (which hype up interest in the new sets they are releasing.) When Wizard's drops the ball, as I believe they have here, they have effectively paid for bad advertising. This is an issue. A serious issue. As their corporate mantra stated during Zendikar block "play = dollars". There is a direct correlation between how many people play in events and tournaments, and how many packs are sold. If people are disappointed in the quality of the "advertising" Wizards has produced for such events, then as with all bad advertising, they are apt to buy less product. I think anyone who is interested in the health of this game, should indeed raise their voice to Wizards about it. Consumer feedback is the only way Wizard's can gauge how effective their advertisement is. Indeed, I think those who attempt to discourage those who want to give feedback are the ones doing the rest of the community a disservice, not the supposed "whiners".

Then let me elaborate upon my previous statement: not all critical feedback is created equal. The response to these contents has not been all well-articulated, thoughtful critiques, and not all of them have been the textual equivalent of flinging poo around. Like I said in the post you just quoted, valid criticism makes sense, and there has been some of that. The fact of the matter is, like it or not, the oversized angels are only really playable for EDH. While wizards may feel uncomfortable with flooding the market with "real" copies of those cards, the aggrievance still stands and it's up to them to decide how they (wizards) want to address it, if they so choose. That's perfectly fine.

What isn't fine though is invalid, non-constructive criticism on the lines of "this sucks, and I am butthurt".

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fluffycow
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posted April 20, 2012 12:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for fluffycow Click Here to Email fluffycow Send a private message to fluffycow Click to send fluffycow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View fluffycow's Have/Want ListView fluffycow's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bugger:
What isn't fine though is invalid, non-constructive criticism on the lines of "this sucks, and I am butthurt".


Those are the best arguments, therefore wizards sucks and are buttheads

 
HandicapParking
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posted April 20, 2012 12:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HandicapParking Click Here to Email HandicapParking Send a private message to HandicapParking Click to send HandicapParking an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Somewhere out there a Shepherd is missing his sheep.
 
WeedIan
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posted April 20, 2012 08:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
I'm betting that more people go because of the Helvault then don't go because the contents "suck"

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caquaa
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posted April 21, 2012 01:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
I'm betting that more people go because of the Helvault then don't go because the contents "suck"


would you say that if all those people knew exactly what was in it?

 
TimeBeing
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posted April 21, 2012 01:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
would you say that if all those people knew exactly what was in it?

yes. It still free stuff. Sounds like people just wanted free stuff that they could sell for 30$ after.

Did people really expect more promo card in this? You are already getting the pre-release card.

Best wizards ever comes to "printing" money in From the Vault, Judge Promos, and maybe the GP promos. They even said there not doing pre-release mythic anymore since it dilutes the pool.
The over size card are meh, the tokens are cool, the dice are always useful. And they will be somewhat rare. So who knows, in 5 years the token could be worth 10$. Honestly expected Dice, and keychains or something. So a usable token is a step up.

Yes a Planechase promo plane would have been cooler.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by TimeBeing on April 21, 2012]

 
JensK
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posted April 21, 2012 03:16 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JensK Click Here to Email JensK Send a private message to JensK Click to send JensK an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I don't think people show up because of the Helvault. They show up because of all the awesome cards in AVR
 

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