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Author Topic:   Helvault contents have been spoiled!
JoshSherman
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posted May 02, 2012 12:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Trade Auction or SaleView JoshSherman's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
I believe the main issue is not about the quality of free things, but the equality of free things.

Exactly. I didn't know about the "special" Helavaults before opening the two I got to help open. I thought it was a really good time and thoroughly enjoyed them. Had I known about the special ones, and that I didn't get to help open one, I would have been very disappointed.

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Bagbokk
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posted May 02, 2012 03:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bagbokk Click Here to Email Bagbokk Send a private message to Bagbokk Click to send Bagbokk an Instant MessageVisit Bagbokk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
It's pretty obvious that this has generated more negative buzz than positive buzz.


Sure. The people unhappy with it bitch and whine and generate all the negative buzz, the people that don't care and were perfectly happy, well, don't care enough to generate positive buzz about it. The people who are unhappy are always the loudest about how unhappy they are, that's the way it is with everything. I mean, there's at least two (three, including me) people in the last two pages of this thread here that basically said their LGS either loved or didn't care about the Helvault at all. There might've been more earlier; the point is, not as many people are unhappy about it as you apparently think; there's certainly not a 100% agreement/consensus here that WOTC did something wrong by releasing either a Helvault with nothing useful, or a premium Helvault. You can be unhappy about it, just don't try and speak for everyone else.

[Edited 4 times, lastly by Bagbokk on May 02, 2012]

 
junichi
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posted May 02, 2012 04:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bagbokk:
Sure. The people unhappy with it bitch and whine and generate all the negative buzz, the people that don't care and were perfectly happy, well, don't care enough to generate positive buzz about it. The people who are unhappy are always the loudest about how unhappy they are, that's the way it is with everything. I mean, there's at least two (three, including me) people in the last two pages of this thread here that basically said their LGS either loved or didn't care about the Helvault at all. There might've been more earlier; the point is, not as many people are unhappy about it as you apparently think; there's certainly not a 100% agreement/consensus here that WOTC did something wrong by releasing either a Helvault with nothing useful, or a premium Helvault. You can be unhappy about it, just don't try and speak for everyone else.

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. If you took my statement of "disappoint the remaining 5970" at face value, then I am not even sure if you are just trolling or...

The evidence is there that a lot of people are not happy about the random and low distribution of the foil Helvault. Are there people who are perfectly fine with what they got? Of course, and they are great for not letting these things get to them, but it doesn't mean it is wrong for others to be disappointed about it. When rumors were spread that there are foil Helvaults in Ayacyn pre-release, people's expectation went up as well, which led to a greater disappointment.

I have been to 4 Helvault events, and played in 2. When the Helvaults were opened, everyone was very excited, but as soon as it was revealed that the Helvault was just a normal one with no special foils, I heard a lot of "Oh..." and "Meh..." among the players, and a lot of them didn't even bother getting their tokens and oversized card.

Now, before you try to twist anything I say any further, I do believe it is great that WoTC did the whole Helvault thing, but I also believe they dropped the ball on this one when it comes to the execution of a great idea.

edit:

Pretty funny

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by junichi on May 02, 2012]

gaeacradle
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posted May 02, 2012 08:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gaeacradle Click Here to Email gaeacradle Send a private message to gaeacradle Click to send gaeacradle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gaeacradle's Have/Want ListView gaeacradle's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
I have been to 4 Helvault events, and played in 2. When the Helvaults were opened, everyone was very excited, but as soon as it was revealed that the Helvault was just a normal one with no special foils, I heard a lot of "Oh..." and "Meh..." among the players, and a lot of them didn't even bother getting their tokens and oversized card.

I sincerely sincerely, extremely sincerely hope that people were not hoping so much on getting a foil Helvault. Common sense dictates that these premium Helvaults will be in EXTREMELY limited quantity. Why can't people understand that? "I'm getting free stuff, but there is a super slim chance that I will get free AWESOME stuff".

You also need to remember that not all premium Helvaults are equal. Some has Demonic Tutor, some has Decree of Justice. Again, "I'm getting free stuff, but there is a super slim chance that I will get a little cooler free stuff (Decree) or that I will get free AWESOME stuff (Tutor)".

No matter how you cut and slice it, this is the same idea as:
1) Playing a lottery
2) Random drawings
3) Zendikar treasures

There is a chance you will get awesome stuff, but most likely, you won't. So just face the fact that you aren't lucky today, and move on, and stop bitching and feeling entitled.

 
Lord Crovax
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posted May 02, 2012 08:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lord Crovax Click Here to Email Lord Crovax Send a private message to Lord Crovax Click to send Lord Crovax an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
TBH all I wanted from any Helvault was a Foil Token or two, just cause they look really cool...

That said, no one but me cared about the Helvault, got a ton of dice, cause no one wanted any, got a ton of tokens, cause again no one wanted them.

Was just a very meh, I can't play this and thus don't want it feeling.

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junichi
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posted May 02, 2012 08:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
I sincerely sincerely, extremely sincerely hope that people were not hoping so much on getting a foil Helvault. Common sense dictates that these premium Helvaults will be in EXTREMELY limited quantity. Why can't people understand that? "I'm getting free stuff, but there is a super slim chance that I will get free AWESOME stuff".

No one knew how many foil Helvault was available at that time, so everyone thought there would be a reasonable chance to get a foil Helvault, not a 0.5% chance.

quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
You also need to remember that not all premium Helvaults are equal. Some has Demonic Tutor, some has Decree of Justice. Again, "I'm getting free stuff, but there is a super slim chance that I will get a little cooler free stuff (Decree) or that I will get free AWESOME stuff (Tutor)".

It's true that not all foil Helvaults are equal, but at the very least, the difference between one another is not as great as a foil Helvault and a non foil Helvault. Will people still complain that some got a Foil Tutor and some got a Foil Decree? You bet, but it is reasonable to believe that the amount of that type of complaints should be far fewer than the current ones.

quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
No matter how you cut and slice it, this is the same idea as:
1) Playing a lottery
2) Random drawings
3) Zendikar treasures

There is a chance you will get awesome stuff, but most likely, you won't. So just face the fact that you aren't lucky today, and move on, and stop bitching and feeling entitled.


I disagree with your lottery analogy, since event prizes are not meant to be random. Besides, random means everyone has the same chance of winning, but in this case, only selected stores had a chance to get a special Helvault, which a lot of people aren't even aware of the "selected" part until after the fact.

TBH, the people that are bitching about others bitching are seriously just as bad. If you want people to get over this, then you should set an example and get over the people that are bitching, right?

edit:

BTW, I totally agree that people should appreciate the free stuff, but that shouldn't be mutually exclusive with what I have said previously.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by junichi on May 02, 2012]

gaeacradle
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posted May 02, 2012 09:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gaeacradle Click Here to Email gaeacradle Send a private message to gaeacradle Click to send gaeacradle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gaeacradle's Have/Want ListView gaeacradle's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
No one knew how many foil Helvault was available at that time, so everyone thought there would be a reasonable chance to get a foil Helvault, not a 0.5% chance

I thought I was a very optimistic person, but apparently, my optimism doesn't even hold a lick of a candle to yours and all the other folks out there. I can't really fathom in my mind at all how people can think that this would NOT be something like a lottery.

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
It's true that not all foil Helvaults are equal, but at the very least, the difference between one another is not as great as a foil Helvault and a non foil Helvault. Will people still complain that some got a Foil Tutor and some got a Foil Decree? You bet, but it is reasonable to believe that the amount of that type of complaints should be far fewer than the current ones.

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Umm...Foil tokens are 45+ not 10-15....

otherwise....well meh


Really? The difference can be as low as $7 (Wrath of God) or $12 (Decree of Justice), and then add in $10/15 for the FOIL Token. The most expensive promo is $100 (Tutor). So the difference between the most expensive premium Helvault to the least expensive premium Helvault is MUCH greater than the difference between the least expensive premium Hevault to non-premium Helvault.

EDIT: I did not realize that these tokens jumped up that much. I remembered that the first couple of them sold for less than $10. If the price holds at $50, then the difference is much closer between best-premium Helvault vs worst-premium Helvault and worst-premium Helvault vs. non-premium Helvault.

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
I disagree with your lottery analogy, since event prizes are not meant to be random. Besides, random means everyone has the same chance of winning, but in this case, only selected stores had a chance to get a special Helvault, which a lot of people aren't even aware of the "selected" part until after the fact.

Event prizes? These are supposed to be passed out to everyone, even if the amount of players doesn't hit 54. A lot of people who aren't ware of the "selected" part = a lot of clueless people who have no idea of how a promotion works. Also, you seem not to understand the randomly selected part of the promotion either. WoTC already stated that 30 Advanced WPN stores were randomly selected, so EVERYONE who goes to Advanced stores have the same chance to win a premium Helvault.

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
TBH, the people that are bitching about others bitching are seriously just as bad. If you want people to get over this, then you should set an example and get over the people that are bitching, right?

How are we bad? These people are bitching because they DID NOT get something. I am only "bitching" because people are being entitled idiots.



[Edited 2 times, lastly by gaeacradle on May 02, 2012]

 
Lord Crovax
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posted May 02, 2012 09:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lord Crovax Click Here to Email Lord Crovax Send a private message to Lord Crovax Click to send Lord Crovax an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Umm...Foil tokens are 45+ not 10-15....

otherwise....well meh

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junichi
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posted May 02, 2012 10:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
I thought I was a very optimistic person, but apparently, my optimism doesn't even hold a lick of a candle to yours and all the other folks out there. I can't really fathom in my mind at all how people can think that this would NOT be something like a lottery.

Really? The difference can be as low as $7 (Wrath of God) or $12 (Decree of Justice), and then add in $10/15 for the FOIL Token. The most expensive promo is $100 (Tutor). So the difference between the most expensive premium Helvault to the least expensive premium Helvault is MUCH greater than the difference between the least expensive premium Hevault to non-premium Helvault.

EDIT: I did not realize that these tokens jumped up that much. I remembered that the first couple of them sold for less than $10. If the price holds at $50, then the difference is much closer between best-premium Helvault vs worst-premium Helvault and worst-premium Helvault vs. non-premium Helvault.

Event prizes? These are supposed to be passed out to everyone, even if the amount of players doesn't hit 54. A lot of people who aren't ware of the "selected" part = a lot of clueless people who have no idea of how a promotion works. Also, you seem not to understand the randomly selected part of the promotion either. WoTC already stated that 30 Advanced WPN stores were randomly selected, so EVERYONE who goes to Advanced stores have the same chance to win a premium Helvault.

How are we bad? These people are bitching because they DID NOT get something. I am only "bitching" because people are being entitled idiots.


I find it amazing that you knew it would be a lottery chance to open a foil Helvault, before anyone else knew about how little there are in the world. The info regarding to "special Helvault only in WPN Advanced store" was not made prior to the pre-release, so your argument is moot.

I am not even sure why you are so worked up about people sharing their view on this issue!? Last I recall, this is a forum, and people will share their view on things regardless of joy or displeasure. If all you want are candies and rainbows, then I am not sure if this is the right forum for you.

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You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

Bagbokk
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posted May 03, 2012 05:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Bagbokk Click Here to Email Bagbokk Send a private message to Bagbokk Click to send Bagbokk an Instant MessageVisit Bagbokk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Are there people who are perfectly fine with what they got? Of course, and they are great for not letting these things get to them, but it doesn't mean it is wrong for others to be disappointed about it.

You can certainly feel free to be disappointed and that's great if it's how you feel, but you shouldn't be surprised at all that people disagree with you and think your reasons for being disappointed are laughable. And in fact, there's actually theoretically a good reason why people would vehemently disagree with you. Maybe they were happy with the Helvault and if WOTC thinks everyone hated it based on the "negative buzz" about it, they might simply decide not to do anything similar in future events. And the ones that were happy wouldn't like that.

This is starting to remind me of the reason why some artists won't sign cards anymore, for that matter.

quote:
I find it amazing that you knew it would be a lottery chance to open a foil Helvault, before anyone else knew about how little there are in the world.

I guess this is just the difference between people who feel entitled to everything and people who don't. I don't see "free stuff" and automatically assume I'm getting it (unless, of course, the announcement had been made as to such). I certainly don't see "free stuff" AND "premium free stuff" and automatically assume I'm getting the premium free stuff. In fact, I assume the exact opposite unless there's a REASON for me to be getting the premium free stuff.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Bagbokk on May 03, 2012]

 
nderdog
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posted May 03, 2012 07:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
I just don't get the whining. WotC comes out and says that instead of just the promo card that you're accustomed to, we're giving out extra stuff too. The Helvaults are loads better than the SOM block extras from the prereleases (read: commons that would be worthless in 3 months) so clearly the bonuses are getting better. How on earth that leads to "this is crap, how dare they give such terrible stuff away FOR FREE" is beyond me. Yes, there was a small chance that you could get better free stuff, but if you're not happy with free stuff, then just quit and stop trying to rain on everyone else's parade, the promotion clearly wasn't aimed at you.

I for one am extremely disappointed that due to vacation I was unable to attend any prerelease, and would have loved to have the "crap" Helvault stuff.

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Meddling Pimp
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posted May 03, 2012 08:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm surprised there haven't been any reports of foil Helvaults being harvested by the shop. The premium ones would obviously be heavier. It seems like it would be super easy to have emptied the premium Helvault and replaced/removed the promo cards. Perhaps that was the reason for not spoiling the premium sets in the first place.
 
junichi
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posted May 03, 2012 08:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Bagbokk:
You can certainly feel free to be disappointed and that's great if it's how you feel, but you shouldn't be surprised at all that people disagree with you and think your reasons for being disappointed are laughable. And in fact, there's actually theoretically a good reason why people would vehemently disagree with you. Maybe they were happy with the Helvault and if WOTC thinks everyone hated it based on the "negative buzz" about it, they might simply decide not to do anything similar in future events. And the ones that were happy wouldn't like that.

This is starting to remind me of the reason why some artists won't sign cards anymore, for that matter.

I guess this is just the difference between people who feel entitled to everything and people who don't. I don't see "free stuff" and automatically assume I'm getting it (unless, of course, the announcement had been made as to such). I certainly don't see "free stuff" AND "premium free stuff" and automatically assume I'm getting the premium free stuff. In fact, I assume the exact opposite unless there's a REASON for me to be getting the premium free stuff.


I was never surprised that someone would disagree with it, so I am not sure why you get that perception that I am surprised!? In fact, I have been pretty open minded about this all along, and accepted that there will be some people that are perfectly fine with the contents, and some don't, but apparently, according to a few MOTLers, people don't even have the right to be disappointed because it is free, which is actually more laughable than anything else.

Besides, a few of you are quite naive to automatically link disappointment to entitlement. No one is saying they are entitled to free foil Helvault contents, but people are just disappointed that their store didn't have it. It's TWO DIFFERENT THING! So yea, stop hallucinating, step back a bit, and think this over. No one is trying to bring WoTC down because they didn't get their foil Helvault, people are just disappointed because their chocolate bar didn't have a golden ticket in there.


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gaeacradle
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posted May 03, 2012 08:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gaeacradle Click Here to Email gaeacradle Send a private message to gaeacradle Click to send gaeacradle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gaeacradle's Have/Want ListView gaeacradle's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Besides, a few of you are quite naive to automatically link disappointment to entitlement. No one is saying they are entitled to free foil Helvault contents, but people are just disappointed that their store didn't have it. It's TWO DIFFERENT THING! So yea, stop hallucinating, step back a bit, and think this over. No one is trying to bring WoTC down because they didn't get their foil Helvault, people are just disappointed because their chocolate bar didn't have a golden ticket in there.

I agree with you that disappointment is not entitlement, but my earlier comments are to those who are actually bitching about not getting the premium Helvault.

 
junichi
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posted May 03, 2012 08:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by gaeacradle:
I agree with you that disappointment is not entitlement, but my earlier comments are to those who are actually bitching about not getting the premium Helvault.


In that case, we are on the same page then.

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You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.


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