I'm not sold yet. The Red, White and Blue promo's that you'll be getting are great, followed by the Black and Green dead last. But Green has a lot of good early bodies (at common and uncommon) that no other color has, lest somewhat for Red maybe, and seeing this will be a slow format it might warrant a second look.

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

1) Bestow creatures all seem bad. Either both costs are too high or the bestow cost is so incredibly high as to make them useless as anything other that a creature with a downside.

2) Enchantments STILL don't matter unless they are auras and you have a creature in play that is "heroic". Unfortunate for an enchantment block.

3) Devotion is poorly implemented.
* It lack support. Cards that give bonus devotion? - nope. Cards with lots of colored mana symbols? - nope (Arbor Colossus is the only permanent that gives 3 devotion to a color).
* It is a win-more mechanic. Once you have enough permanents to to make it useful you were likely already winning.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
I like this set but I it fell very short of being something great.

1) Bestow creatures all seem bad. Either both costs are too high or the bestow cost is so incredibly high as to make them useless as anything other that a creature with a downside.

2) Enchantments STILL don't matter unless they are auras and you have a creature in play that is "heroic". Unfortunate for an enchantment block.

3) Devotion is poorly implemented.
* It lack support. Cards that give bonus devotion? - nope. Cards with lots of colored mana symbols? - nope (Arbor Colossus is the only permanent that gives 3 devotion to a color).
* It is a win-more mechanic. Once you have enough permanents to to make it useful you were likely already winning.

Fantastic flavor, with unfortunate mechanics. Reminds me of Saviors of Kamigawa.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
I like this set but I it fell very short of being something great.

Fantastic flavor, with unfortunate mechanics. Reminds me of Saviors of Kamigawa.

---

I could care less how great of a set it is...it solves my problems with what Standard has become. This sets looks like it will slow down the format, which is what I was hoping for.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
I like this set but I it fell very short of being something great.

1) Bestow creatures all seem bad. Either both costs are too high or the bestow cost is so incredibly high as to make them useless as anything other that a creature with a downside.

2) Enchantments STILL don't matter unless they are auras and you have a creature in play that is "heroic". Unfortunate for an enchantment block.

3) Devotion is poorly implemented.
* It lack support. Cards that give bonus devotion? - nope. Cards with lots of colored mana symbols? - nope (Arbor Colossus is the only permanent that gives 3 devotion to a color).
* It is a win-more mechanic. Once you have enough permanents to to make it useful you were likely already winning.

Fantastic flavor, with unfortunate mechanics. Reminds me of Saviors of Kamigawa.

---

1. Only boon satyr is constructed playable, but he's an absolute HOUSE. I didn't realize that the aura turns back into a creature if the creature dies, so it's like a reverse totem armor.

2. The gods are very well implemented, sorry. And as someone pointed out, it's the first set in the block. Willing to bet that there will be more than one playable aura beyond boon satyr before the block is over.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
2. The gods are very well implemented, sorry. And as someone pointed out, it's the first set in the block. Willing to bet that there will be more than one playable aura beyond boon satyr before the block is over.

---

I agree the gods are well implemented, but how does that make enchantments matter? What's so special about the god cards being enchantments instead of artifacts or creatures that can lose the ability to attack and block?

Maybe later in the block it might matter that the gods are enchantments, but it doesn't matter now. If they were Legendary Artifacts that became Legendary Artifact Creatures they would (almost) be functionally identical in the upcoming standard.

Mirrodin has 83 cards that care specifically about artifacts. If you card is an artifact that MATTERS in Mirrodin. Champions of Kamigawa has 14 non-creature cards that care about spirits. If your creature is a spirit that MATTERS in CoK.

Theros has 6* cards that care if something is an enchantment instead of an artifact. That's an unfortunate set and start for an "enchantment block".

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
I agree the gods are well implemented, but how does that make enchantments matter? What's so special about the god cards being enchantments instead of artifacts or creatures that can lose the ability to attack and block?

Maybe later in the block it might matter that the gods are enchantments, but it doesn't matter now. If they were Legendary Artifacts that became Legendary Artifact Creatures they would (almost) be functionally identical in the upcoming standard.

Mirrodin has 83 cards that care specifically about artifacts. If you card is an artifact that MATTERS in Mirrodin. Champions of Kamigawa has 14 non-creature cards that care about spirits. If your creature is a spirit that MATTERS in CoK.

Theros has 6* cards that care if something is an enchantment instead of an artifact. That's an unfortunate set and start for an "enchantment block".

*The Theros Six:
Ray of Dissolution
Swan Song
Priest of Iroas
Commune with the Gods
Pharika's Mender
Polis Crusher

---

What about all the Heroic creatures that are really meant for auras?

__________________
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneofchaos:
The fact that for one mana I can turn your god into a swan makes me excited.

---

It'd be more exciting if it was an ugly duckling instead of a swan.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
Regarding all my complaining about the week enchantment theme thus far in Theros:

I was listening to Rosewater's podcast about Scars of Mirrodin and he specifically called out Mirrodin as being too artifacts-matter themed - I agree with that. I suppose they error on the side of too little theme these days to avoid making the format too forced.

---

To be honest, I think there's a difference between "x matters" and "a lot of x". Some of the Theros set seems pretty cool, even flavourwise. Some seems to miss the mark big time. As far as the "enchantments matter" thing goes, I'd say they kind of missed the mark. There are a lot of enchantments in the set, and they'll matter for Standard (they can't help it!), but they don't really strike me as mattering, really. To an extent, yes--the Gods and devotion are pretty decent--but it seems like they failed to really integrate them into the core of the set.

With Mirrodin, I'd agree that they erred to the other side quite a bit. But the results were pretty cool and unique!

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

quote:

---

Originally posted by Myy:
does silent artisan look like art leftover from mirrodin block.

---

I don't think it does, per se. But with an artifact border, it could very well indeed.

__________________
28th in refs on Motl!

#1 Ref's for Arizona!

I offer 3rd party trading services. Email if interested.

2) uuuugh monored is going to be disgusting in the new standard

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
2) uuuugh monored is going to be disgusting in the new standard

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
1) Theros is not, and has never been officially called, an enchantment matters block. You are all putting words in wizards' mouths. What they said is it will have a large enchantment component - and yes, that IS different than "enchantment matters".

---

Well then, there we go--a lot of x. Fair enough, though still not as interesting as x matters. It'll be interesting to see how Theros fits in with the rest of the block. It strikes me that it might be harder to create a sense of thematic cohesion or integration when you go that route.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
1) Theros is not, and has never been officially called, an enchantment matters block. You are all putting words in wizards' mouths. What they said is it will have a large enchantment component - and yes, that IS different than "enchantment matters".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
Indeed you are right - that was my working assumption because that's the way they did mechanical themes in the past. I've even watched this video before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-arkkPQDLM (about 12:30). They do call specifically call it an enchantment block but they also downplay 'enchantment matters', "It's not just enchantment matters"

---

'zactly. It'd be like complaining about how Innistrad did tribal less than Lorwyn. Of course it did, because Innistrad was a top-down horror block first, everything else second. Theros is a top-down greek block first, everything else second.

IIRC Rosewater even confirmed that there is a reason why Theros has zero plain global enchantments. Whether that's because they wanted to limit enchantments to ways that involve mixing them with other card types or attaching them to other card types to reinforce the idea that in this block, enchantments represent the power and influence of the gods (in a way that boils down to permeating the rest of the existing set, not in ways that just stand on their own), or whether it's because of some story point yet to be revealed, we'll have to see.