quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
EXACTLY!

Woolly I thought was a cit, actually. She didn't play the same way battle did, and struck me quite convincingly as a slightly bewildered cit. Good job, Woolly!

MM: who got MVPs, and when are signups for ww9?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Woolly Spider:
sorry I didn't read the whole after game posts. I didn't realize he was lying. Alm that did go to far I felt really bad for your cause.

Also Alm, Rev you 2 need to be more open to other idea's. I feel like everytime I said something one of you shot it down, or just ignored it. I know I was just a replacement but seriously be more open minded about things.

Thanks though for letting me play.

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Um, woolly, I always asked you for your thoughts and opinions. and you were the one who suggested the jaz kill which helped us out alot. I am actually shocked that you say I ignored you. I know I did not. If you wish to think that way, that is up to you.

I am not saying Alm went to far, just a big lie, which this game is all about. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

~Rev

EDIT: PD never responded back to me. and I do not thoroughly understand your charts. Sorry my math and graphics and algebra is not up to your level. My math is about things like 2 + 2 = 5, 4 quarters = a dollar. I have alot of bills.

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quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
, just a big lie, which this game is all about

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what game are you playing?

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
Um, woolly, I always asked you for your thoughts and opinions. and you were the one who suggested the jaz kill which helped us out alot. I am actually shocked that you say I ignored you. I know I did not. If you wish to think that way, that is up to you.

I am not saying Alm went to far, just a big lie, which this game is all about. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

~Rev

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Yes I know you listened then but it felt like you 2 weren't really comfortable with me there. Sorry I should have added more to that post to try to explain better. It's just the way I felt, so I am voicing it. No offense intended. I am sorry if I offended you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
what game are you playing?

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I was playing werewolf.

So I am to assume, next game, your a wolf, you will not lie one time about it? Not speak one little or big lie to save yourself and help your team to win?

MM is prolly done for the night, I do not see him online on aim nor motl, but I was wondering who MVP's are as well.

~Rev

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quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
I was playing werewolf.

So I am to assume, next game, your a wolf, you will not lie one time about it? Not speak one little or big lie to save yourself and help your team to win?

MM is prolly done for the night, I do not see him online on aim nor motl, but I was wondering who MVP's are as well.

~Rev

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Oh please. Yes the wolves have to lie but that's not really what the game's actually ABOUT.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
I was playing werewolf.

So I am to assume, next game, your a wolf, you will not lie one time about it? Not speak one little or big lie to save yourself and help your team to win?

MM is prolly done for the night, I do not see him online on aim nor motl, but I was wondering who MVP's are as well.

~Rev

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Oh please. Yes the wolves have to lie but that's not really what the game's actually ABOUT.

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I think the game is about having fun and enjoying ourselves and winning. So I do not fully understand what's the big deal about alm's lie.

My aim is Revenger72, if you (and OB) wish to continue this intelllecual(sp) conversation there. I do not want to clutter this post up more with posts of mine.

EDIT: Corrected my spelling with another spelling error.
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quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
I think the game is about having fun and enjoying ourselves and winning. So I do not fully understand what's the big deal about alm's lie.

My aim is Revenger72, if you wish to continue this intelluactual(sp) conversation there. I do not want to clutter this post up more with posts of mine.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Our_Benefactors:
In game lies are fine. I feel there should be a certain amount of mutual trust granted for events outside of the game. As I said, I realize it is not realistic to necessarily expect this from everyone else, but it would (I think) bring our game to a more mature level.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
I would actually support this if it was a RULE. However, I don't think it is fair to differentiate between lies. Although lying may not be the only part of the game for the citizens, it is definitely the number one issue for wolves. As a wolf, you already have all the information and a very reachable goal in mind, so all you need to do is LIE your way to the finish line. Yes, my lie was emotional. That was the point - you cannot post nothing for three rounds while still voting and then say "sorry, doctor's appointment" or "oh my bad forgot." If you want to be offended about this, whatever - that is your right. However, please do not tote to me that I am hurting anyone other than you and your high moral standards against lying about certain arbitrary things, because no one else is damaged and you know it.

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You were certainly hurt in that I and likely others will never believe you again.

AlmasterGM, I'm not going to pass judgment on your awful excuse, (Oops, I guess I am) but I do have to admit, it did serve it's purpose. It was the single reason I stopped pressing for a vote for you, which I had been trying to do since at least the previous round.

In the last round I was sure of NO ONE as being a citizen. People who were confirmed citizens (In my mind) before they died were Liq, fwyb, (I really did think that was a BAD lynch. I was sure he was cit and couldn't believe it when the vote came out. But that was the round I missed the vote funny that no wolf voted fwyb) and Bugger. I was suspicious of every other person at all times.

Well, it was my first game, I learned a lot more by playing than by just reading the threads. I plan on doing more analyzing and trusting of my gut in future games. Hopefully I'll work my way up to not being such a horrible player. (And laptop's back tomorrow, no more dial-up! Hurrah!)

OH and bugger - from way back when: I really wasn't snapping, I was laughing the whole time I was typing that post...hence the reason I decided the post needed smilies...or at least an lol, or /sarcasm. I really like being sarcastic () but I eventually decided to just let you read it however you wanted, because I've seen plenty of accusations thrown around at a person in this game just because they made a joke or were sarcastic. Its so easy to misread text. But no worries.

/ramble

quote:

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Originally posted by revenger:
EDIT: PD never responded back to me. and I do not thoroughly understand your charts. Sorry my math and graphics and algebra is not up to your level. My math is about things like 2 + 2 = 5, 4 quarters = a dollar. I have alot of bills.

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What can I do for you Venger? I don't have access to my work PC... it's an hour away and I aint driving over there right now.

Jaz was preaching it and I was trying to Pin it on Revenger and would of called out for wooly right after the death of revenger if I could of gotten it.

God sometimes it sucks when family relies on you and you miss something.

I had to watch the kids while they fought to save their house and they don't have internet connection! :Sigh:

__________________
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@AGM: you did what you had to do. Personally I hate being a wolf because dishonesty is not in my nature. I think the excuse you picked upsets people because it tugged at their heartstrings and they felt bad for you--which is why it crosses a line. It wouldn't be too far off from saying you couldn't get on because your mother died. Everyone would feel terrible for you. That's what bugs people--not so much that you lied, but that you chose a lie that caused them to feel bad for you. If it were me, I would not have gone there, and I would have simply stretched the truth. After all, the best wolf tells truth as much as possible.

@REV: you played a good game. I was pretty sure you were a wolf by round 3, but that really doesn't matter because you eliminated me. You managed to play a perfect wolf game by eliminating the most experienced players. IMO your biggest mistakes were voting for Jaz and Bugger--that was totally unnecessary since you knew you could eliminate them during night phase.

As a continuation of the Things I Learned post from last game:

(1) Silent players are a drag on this game. The wolves won this game by killing players that were strong, but also the most talkative. There really was a dearth of discussion... post levels were way down--as was participation--six votes missed in five rounds. But, despite being a drag on the game, silent players get a free pass, and players who talk get lynched. It's hard to be suspicious of AGM or BOT because they haven't said anything to make you suspicious. But both of them are sitting quietly in R1 piles that have been completely emptied of other players. We've got to collectively view silence with as much suspicion as we so view talk. I'm not saying we should just lynch silent players all the time, but suspicion levels should be even between talkative and nontalkative players--otherwise we reward the precise behavior that is bad for this game. Liq's early suspect list of players who made the mistake of posting in the first (insert arbitrary number here) posts was essentially a reward for silence--and yet only 1 of his 7 suspects was a wolf.

(2) It's true declaring votes helps the wolves, but it also helps the cits. To take it to the extreme in either direction (everybody declares or nobody declares) is to go too far. You have to remember the wolves still know who the wolves are voting for. So they can still spread themselves out if they want to. If there are no declarations, what can you conclude about people's votes? Not much--wagoning or hiding becomes harder to detect because nobody had the information needed to wagon or hide. If you give the wolves NO information, their voting record will be less useful. All you will be able to reliably conclude is that there are probably wolves in the random pile (but the random pile will also be huge.) Besides--if talk is good, and for some people the only post they will make all round is their declaration, then maybe declaration is just as helpful to the cits as to the wolves.

(3) Cits voting to lynch cits is THE NORM. It really shouldn't be a mark against them. Ignoring wolf votes, and including the tiebreaker round, there were FIFTY votes placed by citizens this game. Of those, 8 were for wolves--that's 16% folks. The remaining 42 votes were all citizens voting for citizens. So if a player votes 3 cits in a row, it means pretty much nothing.

(4) Place your own vote--don't let someone else tell you who to vote for. Liq's plan in R1 was to deliberately get himself lynched--to bait the wolves to the point where they couldn't pass up such an awesome target. He had to do this because he knew the WW were going to take him out before he got a single scry, so it was his only option to get the wolves to expose themselves. The way he did this was to put forth a stunningly bad plan--probably assuming that would make everyone suspicious/angry. He should have been right to think so, but seven players actually bought into the plan--not surprisingly none of the strong players did. While the staggered vote strategy (SVS) could work, it was missing consensus, and that is exactly what should have made people universally dismiss it. The principle difference between SVS and Consensus was that in consensus the PLAYERS decided who they should vote for, and in SVS, Liq decided.

quote:

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Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
This game gets tougher to play the better you are perceived to be. I think I'm pretty good at sniffing out WW, but lately I've only had a round and a half on average to come out with it. And there is always one person who is determined to lynch me for my aggresiveness. I have no choice but to play differently.

These games are getting less and less fun. Not because I am getting killed earlier, but because people are signing up for this game like it's a race and then not participating in it. I don't think randon should be allowed to play next round.

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I'm going to push- and vote- to lynch a silent every single R1 game I play. We had FAR too many players who would run into the signups and then play survivor. Unacceptabe.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
These games are getting less and less fun. Not because I am getting killed earlier, but because people are signing up for this game like it's a race and then not participating in it. I don't think randon should be allowed to play next round.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
I agree with both of you. There should be a minimum posting by each player of 3-4 each round...

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(1) Check the thread and post 1-2 times a day. Check it in the morning before you go off to wherever you go off to, and post--there's got to be SOMETHING worth commenting on. Then check it again in the evening after dinner, and post if there is something worth responding to.

(2) SEND IN YOUR VOTE. If you have to, send it in at the beginning of the round--you can always change it later but if you forget to at least MM will have a vote from you.

(3) Be around at voting time. Sometimes things are revealed just before votes are due that might make you want to change your vote--be around in case that happens.

If you can't keep up with the thread on a daily basis, you are probably too busy to play WW.

__________________
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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

If you can check your mail once a day, you can check WW once a day. There's nothing "overzealous" about such an expectation.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
I disagree. The rounds average about 3 days long. That someone should check the thread 3 times in three days is not a crushing obligation that someone with a "real life" couldn't possibly keep up with. My life is very busy and I manage it just fine. If you are only checking once a round, there is probably going to be too much material to read and you will have trouble keeping up with it--you may end up skimming (or skipping) it and miss out on useful information.

If you can check your mail once a day, you can check WW once a day. There's nothing "overzealous" about such an expectation.

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That's nice that you have that ability, as do I. I still find it unreasonable to expect that out of everyone who plays. Checking 3 times in 3 days, sure not too unreasonable. Unfortunately, the games do not last just 3 days. I find it very difficult to justify asking 17 people to commit to being available every single day for about a month for something that is entertainment. It just seems like a pretty bad idea to me. Maybe you shouldn't be taking this game that seriously.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

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Originally posted by nderdog:
That's nice that you have that ability, as do I. I still find it unreasonable to expect that out of everyone who plays. Checking 3 times in 3 days, sure not too unreasonable. Unfortunately, the games do not last just 3 days. I find it very difficult to justify asking 17 people to commit to being available every single day for about a month for something that is entertainment. It just seems like a pretty bad idea to me. Maybe you shouldn't be taking this game that seriously.

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People should take their obligations seriously, even when those obligations are simply for fun. If you sign up for WW it isn't all about you, it's about the team you will be playing on. Don't let your team down.

So YES, if you are signing up for WW you are signing up for a longterm obligation that to be adequately met requires you to follow the thread on a daily basis and post once a day (or 3-4 times per round). If your life is so busy you can't manage that, you are making a committment you won't keep, and should probably give it a miss. It's only common sense not to make a commitment you can't keep.

I mean honestly--if people entered into this game with that understanding, we'd probably care a lot less about people missing a day here and there because we wouldn't have frequent lulls when nobody posts. Instead we have folks who post once a round or less, and even then it's two lines of text that might as well have not been posted in the first place. We set the bar too low and we make it okay for players to chronically be empty seats at the table. Setting some sort of measurable expectation will give players something to shoot for, even if they never hit it, at the very least making the effort will be good for the game.