What I brought to this game was my own brand of analysis and a strong desire to break down arguments and find the flaws in them. Time and time again this has been taken as an affront by people in general, and particularly those I'm trying to help. And really, why do I get so caught up in disassembling arguments? Because WW is billed as a game for the mind (not the gut.)

I don't mind hilikuS disparaging me, it's just another example of the kind of stuff I don't have to put up with doing an activity I'm supposed to find fun. Like Bugger, irrational arguments cause me physical distress, and the occasional abuse or uncharitable treatment is likewise distressing. Given that stuff really bothers me, and I seem to really bother others, I'm clearly not cut out for this game, at least not here. And as previously noted, my life is mega busy right now, and for the next few weeks I am a single parent. I need a break anyway.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
I'm extremely disappointed in you HilikuS, that was TOTALLY uncalled for. Perhaps it's time to shut down WW and Mafia. I'll have to converse with Jeff about it.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

I'll leave this game up to MM, but I think it's safe to say that everyone needs a good long break from WW/Mafia, so don't plan on another of these being around for a good long time. Let people think about whether they really want to have this type of game for FUN and enjoy them, or if they're just going to keep getting upset and arguing. Personally, I'm tired of reminding people this is a game and to get along.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nderdog:
I'll leave this game up to MM, but I think it's safe to say that everyone needs a good long break from WW/Mafia, so don't plan on another of these being around for a good long time. Let people think about whether they really want to have this type of game for FUN and enjoy them, or if they're just going to keep getting upset and arguing. Personally, I'm tired of reminding people this is a game and to get along.

---

I don't entirely understand the "PD effect" but I am willing to concede it may exist.

Please reconsider, I think this is a bit heavy handed of you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nderdog:
I'll leave this game up to MM, but I think it's safe to say that everyone needs a good long break from WW/Mafia, so don't plan on another of these being around for a good long time. Let people think about whether they really want to have this type of game for FUN and enjoy them, or if they're just going to keep getting upset and arguing. Personally, I'm tired of reminding people this is a game and to get along.

---

Please reconsider, I think this is a bit heavy handed of you.[/QUOTE]

You aren't the only one who has been involved in numerous arguments, and everyone has been warned several times now. It just seems that people have started taking this "game" way too seriously lately to the point of putting "winning" above playing nicely, and I don't think that you're the reason for it.

I'm not saying we can't ever play again, but after having so many games back to back to back, it would be good for everyone to get away from it for a bit and come back fresh.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nderdog:
I think it's safe to say that everyone needs a good long break from WW/Mafia, so don't plan on another of these being around for a good long time.

---

I agree that we should have a 2 to 4 week break after this game.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

@PD, I don't have a problem with you in this game. I do have a problem that when people throw Ideas out there you are quick to shoot them down if YOU don't like it. If you have a role this game whether it's good or bad to me it showed in your posts. If not then maybe you also need to re-read what you right.

@Ryan, Thanos did the same thing last round when he was the Seer. It was to my understanding that the Seer is to drop hints so we know who to go after and see if the Angel can figure it out and try to keep him alive. So IMO it isn't against the rules.

@Jaz, I never said I can't be wrong. I read things and IMO I feel like I haven't liked what I have read. If you are not a wolf then that is my bad. PD always shoots down any Ideas and doesn't let people write their opinions. This is what this game is, a game of peoples opinions. Also, your right PD does have an MVP under his belt and Liq does not. However, I do believe I also read that so do I. That also counts for something. I never claim to be a strong player. But I am one of the more seasoned veteran players.

I am tired of people accusing me of starting a fight. I clearly stated that I did not want to argue PD and was trying to dismiss the possibility of that ending up like that. I just hate the fact that once you accuse PD he does get upset and try to attack that person. Now while I agree you are to defend yourself and try to make people see it differently. PD no disrespect but I believe you take it to another level. Thus the battling back and forth. I also have said it before that people rely on your info and do want to keep you alive. You are a good record keeper and such however, it has become detrimental to the game.

I remember playing numerous games of UBB Mafia and it never coming to this. You call me Liq's lapdog. DO you know why we play Werewolf and stopped playing UBB Mafia. LIQ BROKE IT! He is an intelligent player, a very strong player and I am willing to stick by him until it is proven otherwise. The same goes with GLE. You are always saying that they are alive they have to be wolves. Wolves are not killing the strong players anymore. They are going random as of late to throw the villagers off. I was one who use to say the same thing and I have had more of an open mind in regards to this.

@Nder @ Jaz, I feel as though the game doesn't need to be shut down, however I do agree with the fact that people are taking it too seriously.

@Everyone, people get voted off and killed by werewolves. It is part of the game. If you are one, deal with it. watch the game close to see if u can pick up something on someone. Stop being bitter towards everyone and have fun.

Also, if people are not happy with what I said, it was not directed in a negative sense. Just that this childish reactions from people is killing a game that use to be fun and i would like to see it get back to the old funn of UBB MAFIA!

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
@PD, I don't have a problem with you in this game. I do have a problem that when people throw Ideas out there you are quick to shoot them down if YOU don't like it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
If not then maybe you also need to re-read what you right.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
PD always shoots down any Ideas and doesn't let people write their opinions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
I just hate the fact that once you accuse PD he does get upset and try to attack that person. Now while I agree you are to defend yourself and try to make people see it differently.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
You call me Liq's lapdog. DO you know why we play Werewolf and stopped playing UBB Mafia. LIQ BROKE IT! He is an intelligent player, a very strong player and I am willing to stick by him until it is proven otherwise.

---

It's certainly well and good to say "this player is an asset, and we shouldn't lynch him unless the evidence is strong" especially in the early game, but you simply ignore the evidence. When Liq himself says "such and such is OOC for me" and then he goes and does it the next game, it's not good tactics to swear your loyalty to him and ignore it. As I noted earlier this is a game for the mind, not the gut, and certainly not for the knee. Knee-jerk loyalty is bad tactics any way you slice it. This is not a popularity contest.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
The same goes with GLE. You are always saying that they are alive they have to be wolves. Wolves are not killing the strong players anymore. They are going random as of late to throw the villagers off. I was one who use to say the same thing and I have had more of an open mind in regards to this.

---

I am getting effing sick and tired of saying "I have a minor suspicion of X" and then having to listen to someone screech about why that is so unlikely as if I hadn't already thought of it. That's why it's a MINOR suspicion.

In case you hadn't noticed, I too have played in several WW games in recent memory, and I know that some wolf teams have been changing things up lately and not necessarily going for the strong players. I am fully aware that this is done, and why. Why on fricking Earth would you think I don't see this? Does the fact that certain wolf teams have lately left strong players alive mean that strong players being left alive is completely unworthy of even the slightest mote of suspicion at all? Only if one is foolish.

So I point out that the strong players are alive. Did you see me vote for Liq because he was "still alive?" No. Last game when I went after GLE in R2 for voting the seer after the seer dropped his hints, did you see me saying he should be lynched because he was "still alive?" No.

You (and fwybwed and some others) trivialize my arguments to the point where they aren't my arguments any more, and then point out how flawed they are. Well DUH.

Or you simply get completely nonsensical. Liq made an OOC move, I point it out, and then you point out how I made a similar move which is NOT OOC for me, and you say it's OOC. It isn't OOC for me so that makes no sense at all, and furthermore what bearing does it have on whether or not Liq is OOC? None... it's about you lapdogging Liq and getting into a peeing match with me instead of approaching the proposition dispassionately and THINKING ABOUT IT.

Bernek, you don't like it when I'm critical of your bad arguments, and as a result you tend to lend little weight to my own. But I wouldn't criticize them if they weren't bad arguments. It's not my fault that your arguments are bad or your play is stilted. By pointing it out to you, what I am doing is generally referred to as "doing you a favor".

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
@PD

If not then maybe you also need to re-read what you right.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Ya I agree, alot of people dpended on you PD toooo much, in your play, game, and information and your tracker. no one was really playing the game anymore. It ended up been YOU all the time. and any smart ww knew this.

---

Hey now, I'm not exactly chopped liver

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
@Bugger, I am not gonna be the reason PD stops playing so I would appreciate if you would not insinuate that.

---

In the interest of ceasing unnessecary tensions in this game I'm going to drop it, so let's just agree to disagree about this.

quote:

---

@PD, I don't have a problem with you in this game. I do have a problem that when people throw Ideas out there you are quick to shoot them down if YOU don't like it.

---

You realize not taking things personally applies to everyone, correct? So please stop taking it personally when someone points out the flaws in your argument (no matter WHO does it). You're taking it personally and turning it into PD being a big bully trying to shut up everyone who disagrees with him. Like in this same post I'm quoting now, you say that (relevant bits bolded):

quote:

---

@Jaz, I never said I can't be wrong. I read things and IMO I feel like I haven't liked what I have read. If you are not a wolf then that is my bad. PD always shoots down any Ideas and doesn't let people write their opinions. This is what this game is, a game of peoples opinions. Also, your right PD does have an MVP under his belt and Liq does not. However, I do believe I also read that so do I. That also counts for something. I never claim to be a strong player. But I am one of the more seasoned veteran players.

---

So essentially what I'm saying is this: I recognize and accept your plea to everyone to calm down, but I also hope you understand that you're not without stain yourself in that regard- you have been taking things unnessecarily personally as well.

Hope that came out right

quote:

---

I am tired of people accusing me of starting a fight. I clearly stated that I did not want to argue PD and was trying to dismiss the possibility of that ending up like that.

---

I was the only person to say that, and I said it only once.

quote:

---

I just hate the fact that once you accuse PD he does get upset and try to attack that person.

---

Bernek, you've done this many times before too. So have I. So has fwybwed, Jazaray, Montague (hoo boy montague has ), hilikuS, ryan, and everyone else playing. We don't do it all the time, and PD certainly doesn't.

quote:

---

I remember playing numerous games of UBB Mafia and it never coming to this. You call me Liq's lapdog. DO you know why we play Werewolf and stopped playing UBB Mafia. LIQ BROKE IT! He is an intelligent player, a very strong player and I am willing to stick by him until it is proven otherwise. The same goes with GLE. You are always saying that they are alive they have to be wolves. Wolves are not killing the strong players anymore.

---

Not to infringe on your discussion with PD, but this sounds to me like you are judging Liq and GLE's likelihoods as wolves in any given game based on their skill level. That's kind of biased.

quote:

---

@Nder @ Jaz, I feel as though the game doesn't need to be shut down, however I do agree with the fact that people are taking it too seriously.

---

I personally (speaking as someone who desperately loves playing this game even more than it shows) think a hiatus would serve all of us well. It's one thing to promise to relax about it, but when we do that and then go right back to the same fighting in the next game (like has happened now) it doesn't seem like promises are enough. As much as I want to work hard to become a better player at this game, I also want it to be a fun one for everyone involved. And I do mean everyone.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
LOL. Grow up. I am not trying to kill the game.

---

I just spent half my lunch break reading a page of you saying how you're going to quit.

I apologize if what I said was uncalled for, but that's how I saw it at the time.

Moving on.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
If I was a wolf, I would be THRILLED at the way this game is going...

---

I started this game b/c people were jonesing(is this a word?) for some mafia. I took time out of my day/life to try and provide some entertainment. And look what has transpired.

That being said, I was suggesting a 1 month lay off (possibly longer) from any WW games.

I appreciate the people who played the right way and tried to have fun.

I wish to reserve the right (with mod permission of course)to continue to be the GM of this game if/when it ever starts up again. At that particular time, I will decide if I want to host or not.

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 9!][My Brute!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
I wish to reserve the right (with mod permission of course)to continue to be the GM of this game if/when it ever starts up again. At that particular time, I will decide if I want to host or not.

---

Absolutely. I consider it yours to do with as you choose. If you opt not to run it if and when the time comes, I may or may not be up to running it then. Up until very recently, I would have been happy to pick up the reins again, but at this point, I think my feelings are much the same as yours.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
So the game has been nixed?

---

Yes, this game is no more. It has ceased to be. It has gone on to meet it's maker. It is an ex-Werewolf game.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

Also, I was the angel.

And WRT my part in the provocation this game experienced: XPR, I was actually hoping I'd get you mad so I could call attention to myself early and throw the wolves off.

@ everyone but Liq (because either he's figured it out already, he doesn't care, or both): I was trying to goad Liq into jumping into high gear with my tirade- I intentionally made it much more venomous than intended, although I meant much of what I said. I knew simply asking nicely would not work and opted for reverse psychology. I wholeheartedly apologize to everyone for contributing in this way to the tensions that led to this game being ended and WW being shelved for the forseeable future.

And FWIW I wasn't going to save PD every round, so no worries there...

I am the seer. I picked ryan on R1 by rolling a die. I had to roll a few times because the first couple names that came up were people I didn't think were wolves.

My argument with ryan was as bad as he thinks it is, it was utterly contrived because I knew he was a wolf and wanted to bag him without having to reveal. Ryan's game was excrutiatingly cunning and I was very nervous about keeping him in knowing he was a wolf.

I left a clue on page 2 (a post edit) but nobody found it.

If I hadn't checked ryan I would have checked Liq, and I nearly did. But given his playstyle it probably would have been a waste. I told MM that Liq would be my second name simply because I couldn't ignore his behavior any more. If he really was a cit, then he was indeed wasting the seer.

Other players I suspected where MW and JackSpade (voted in lockstep with ryan), and possibly hilikuS. Being as paranoid as I am I considered that ryan's TMB "slip" might have been deliberate--

ryan gets seered/lynched/discovered and everybody thinks TMB is a cit. But that seemed like too much of a reach for me. I did consider seering TMB for awhile.

But once Liq put the seer in danger of being lynched, I had to drop the strong suggestions. Had I survived that day I'd have checked Liq. Had I not had to drop the strong suggestions, I'd have checked Liq R2, had he been a wolf I would have straight up revealed R3. Had he been a cit, I'd have checked MW R3 and revealed R4 no matter what.

quote:

---

Originally posted by BernieB:
AGM was right about me, I am a werewolf!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BernieB:
AGM was right about me, I am a werewolf!

---

Well, I guess we should have listened to him

quote:

---

Originally posted by BernieB:
Actually, PD, you were the one I wanted to kill right off the bat. However the leader (and I will let him/her reveal him/herself) wanted to leave the more talkative and better players live for a more challenging game.

---

I knew it! Psychograph hits home once again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
I knew it! Psychograph hits home once again.

I have a guess as to who your leader was...

---

Sigh....

Anyways, if we had the lynch off the bat on BB it would have been SOLID, sweet.

Though PD's light defense on him and bringing other silent players into question really hindered that lynch.
the Villagers were all over the place and some changed their vote. oh well....