quote:

---

Originally posted by Battle_of_Twits:
...I followed AGM's lead on BernieB because I had a hunch that AGM was the seer and had scryed him and decided to call him out...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Battle_of_Twits:
...Apparently I was wrong on that account. The preceding quote from PD had me thinking today. Because of his summary, I take it that his tracker recorded my deleted post. However, during the uproar over said deleted post he did nothing to defend me, even though he read the post and knew of its inconsequential nature. Perhaps he didn't think of it, or didn't want to because associated with a suspicious player, or perhaps we was a wolf that wanted me lynched...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
6. BOT:...It was not my intent however to suggest that you were suspicious for deleting the post, I was wondering if MOTL had gone nuts and corrupted the thread... we've seen that happen before...

...{SUSPECT: BOT (wagoning -- see ryan's argument)}...

...I do *NOT* suspect BOT for the deleted post... I only brought it up because it showed up in my downloads folder and on my post list but I couldn't see it on the thread itself. But ryan's argument about BoT's wagoning is interesting--but Freud keeps whispering in my ear...

---

It never really occurred to me to share the contents of the post, and it really wasn't my post to share anyway. Sorry if I inadvertantly caused you grief.

So much stuff to respond to on the thread today--I haven't even finished reading through it yet, but my wife is away on travel for two weeks and I've got to get my kid to school and get to work myself. It'll have to wait until later.

BOT/Ryan: Seer gets no R0 guess. With the amount of games you've played, BOT, you really should know that :P

Ryan: It sure seemed like it to me like that was why people were voting BOT, they found him suspicious because he deleted a post..

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
Now, this could be a wolf on wolf vote in the early round to later "clear" themselves, which I wouldn't put it past Bugger to do this. Again this is completely hypothetical, but something I have seen others do in the past and thought it is something I should bring up

---

This particular part of your post is confusing me, how could it be a "wolf on wolf" vote, when AGM is a cit? I'm not sure what it is, but I find this post very odd from you.

HilikuS/PD: When GLE and I were ww's, he had a huge school/work load, and not much time. He didn't post that much that game either, and, although he was a ww, that's not why he was posting so little. GLE's actually been posting less and less as the games go on.

{Suspect: Liq (OOC switching vote)}
{Suspect: ryan2754 (odd post)}
{Summary: Liq, stop acting like a jerk . GLE's posting less is not suspicious to me. Explained seer gets no r0 pick. ryan's post suspicious.}

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

What suspicious plays? I never knew that deleting a damn post was such a crime or I never would have done it. Excuse me I've never came across that situation before.

---

Well, it is. Very suspicious. So if you are innocent, you will learn for future games. Unless you get outted by the seer, or someone does something more suspicious, you are my main suspicion.

quote:

---

I followed AGM's lead on BernieB because I had a hunch that AGM was the seer and had scryed him and decided to call him out. Apparently I was wrong on that account.

---

I refuse to believe you didn't know the seer didnt get a R0, and I refuse to believe you had a hunch AGM was the seer with no evidence whatsoever.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
What did you mean by this?

---

The two votes before mine were for TMB, due to his no-vote. Hence I said I'd rather vote for BOT.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
Yes, you make big posts with multiple quotes in them but what I was refering to was the size and detail within the post is quite different from the standard PD post.

---

And you've sidestepped the issue of how you switched your vote, AGAIN.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
Yeah, lets judge that on 3 or so Werewolf games I did that and not the 20 or so Mafia games to which I'm refering to. Mafia Style 1.2 is quickly becoming Mafia style 1.3. I'd give it about 5 more games.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
I consider it being unpersuasive. I'm getting to the nuts and bolts of my mind and displaying it. No tricks. No frills. Just pure thought.

---

If you aren't prepared to say *why* X is at 52%, then the information itself becomes useless--and a very obvious means to hide. A person who says too little looks like someone who is afraid of saying too much--afraid they'll reveal something about themselves.

Unpersuasive? Come on. You're the top player in this game hands down. When you say "High: BOT 52%" or whatever, people notice and begin to suspect the same people you suspect. I wonder if it occurs to them how manipulative you are being without ever having to explain yourself? It certainly occurs to me.

But having watched you play 9 WW games I have come to a rather unsavory conclusion WRT your game. In my opinion, you see WW/mafia as a continuum, and make moves based on what they will get you in future games. You may choose to be deliberately unhelpful or suspicious as a cit, simply because you know you will get revealed eventually, and you will bank that for the next game and the game after that. "Liq's gone out of his way to look suspicious the last three games... so the fact that he seems suspicious now is not suspicious." Every inscrutable/unhelpful game you play is a downpayment on your next stint as a wolf. Which AFAIC, makes you a liability, until the moment you decide to finally share something useful.

And that's all I have to say about that. Well that, and I'm done talking to you--there's no point.

{SUSPECT: Liq (OOC vote switch, still alive)}

{SUMMARY: responds to Liq, notes Liq sidesteps his OOC vote-switching again}

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
Well, it is. Very suspicious. So if you are innocent, you will learn for future games. Unless you get outted by the seer, or someone does something more suspicious, you are my main suspicion...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
I refuse to believe you didn't know the seer didnt get a R0, and I refuse to believe you had a hunch AGM was the seer with no evidence whatsoever.

---

{SUSPECT: BOT (didn't know no seer/angel activity R0?)}

But then again, stranger things have happened. Remember when XPR didn't know he could switch his vote? :-/

One of my big problems in this game is I'm very susceptible to Liq's siren's and flashing lights--I can get tunnel vision on him and start to fail to notice suspicious movements by other players. Consider this a cautionary note that, while you might be right about BOT, you seem particularly locked on. Don't get TOO locked on.

In that same vein... I have this strange feeling I'm missing something. I'm going to go back over the thread late tonight and see if I can figure out what it is.

{SUMMARY: warns MW about tunnel vision, suspects BOT's R0 knowledge gap, are we missing something?}

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Seer gets no name R0N. The wolves are the only players active R0N. Seer & Angel come online R1N.

---

quote:

---

I did nothing to defend you?
Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
6. BOT:...It was not my intent however to suggest that you were suspicious for deleting the post, I was wondering if MOTL had gone nuts and corrupted the thread... we've seen that happen before...

...{SUSPECT: BOT (wagoning -- see ryan's argument)}...

...I do *NOT* suspect BOT for the deleted post... I only brought it up because it showed up in my downloads folder and on my post list but I couldn't see it on the thread itself. But ryan's argument about BoT's wagoning is interesting--but Freud keeps whispering in my ear...

The tracker downloaded the post, and I saw it, it was utterly benign, but that wasn't really the original argument against you. Would a WW make a joke and then decide to delete it because he was afraid of drawing too much attn to himself? (Knowing, for example, that hilikuS is playing?) THAT was the argument against you--though its nature kept morphing, as is common in these games.

It never really occurred to me to share the contents of the post, and it really wasn't my post to share anyway. Sorry if I inadvertantly caused you grief.

So much stuff to respond to on the thread today--I haven't even finished reading through it yet, but my wife is away on travel for two weeks and I've got to get my kid to school and get to work myself. It'll have to wait until later.

---

I remember reading most of what you had posted about that in the huge post. I was just hoping that you would have brought up the content of the post if you had had it. I wasn't thinking that the deleting of the post, not its content, would make people think I was a wolf.

quote:

---

Originally posted by masterwolf:
Well, it is. Very suspicious. So if you are innocent, you will learn for future games. Unless you get outted by the seer, or someone does something more suspicious, you are my main suspicion.

I refuse to believe you didn't know the seer didnt get a R0, and I refuse to believe you had a hunch AGM was the seer with no evidence whatsoever.

---

Now I know. Hopefully I don't get lynched and have the cits lose a vote to learn that lesson.
Hunch = guess. Yes I punted by thinking the seer got a r0 scry. I honestly thought that AGM had more with the BernieB vote than his argument that BernieB is enigmatic in the late game.

__________________
Stages of Death: Anger, Denial, Barganing, Depression, Acceptance, Burial, Decay, Haunting, Revenge, Evil Laugh

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Would a WW make a joke and then decide to delete it because he was afraid of drawing too much attn to himself? (Knowing, for example, that hilikuS is playing?)[/i] THAT was the argument against you--though its nature kept morphing, as is common in these games.

---

I lol'd.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:

HilikuS/PD: When GLE and I were ww's, he had a huge school/work load, and not much time. He didn't post that much that game either, and, although he was a ww, that's not why he was posting so little. GLE's actually been posting less and less as the games go on.

---

I still have some suspicion, but that is certainly good information to know.

EDIT: Response to Jaz.

__________________
Originally posted by GLE:
And man... what happens when we get past 300 GDs? Will we need a second MOTL?

And then past 300 MOTLs... we'll need a new internet!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
...Well, here are the votes from the first round and the tiebreaker.

Player - Votes
AGM (cit) - BernieB, BoT
BernieB - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
BoT - BernieB, BernieB
Bugger - TMB (cit), AGM (cit)
Fwy - BernieB, BernieB
GLE - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
hilikuS - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
Jack - BoT, BoT
Jaz - Jack, TMB (cit)
Liq - Jaz, AGM (cit)
MasterWolf - BoT, BoT
PD - TMB, TMB
ryan - BoT, BoT
ToL - TMB, TMB
TMB - N/A, BoT
XPR - Liq, AGM (cit)

---

{SUSPECT: ryan (knew TMB was a cit)}

{SUMMARY: notes ryan identified TMB as a cit twice--how does he know?}

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
But then again, stranger things have happened. Remember when XPR didn't know he could switch his vote? :-/
[/B]

---

Definitely....and it was revealed that I was a citizen when I got lynched that game so no fabrication from me...just lack of knowledge

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
He [me] votes late on the TMB wagon in R1, right after PD. I don't know what to make of this, but I though it was interesting.

---

I'm sure I mentioned this already, but I've had my final exams over the course of the last few days. I'm usually much more active than this. This is also why my posts tend to come later in the day- I have exams in the morning, I study in the afternoon, and then let myself have free time only after dinner (when my medicine wears off). That's also why I have been in some cases late to declare- it's the end of the day and sometimes some of the things I want to point out, people beat me to the punch. Also, if you'll check the timestamps on the post where I declare for TMB and PD declares, you'll notice they are (IIRC) three or so minutes apart. I can't type up that large a post in less than three minutes.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
This particular part of your post is confusing me, how could it be a "wolf on wolf" vote, when AGM is a cit? I'm not sure what it is, but I find this post very odd from you.

---

What ryan meant (If I understood him correctly) is that if TMB were a wolf as well, I could have voted him to make myself look better should he be lynched late game- but I just waited until a better wagon came along to get off of him.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
I didn't have to look very far. *** How do you know TMB is a cit? You've indicated him as a cit here twice (underlined). Later in the same post you mentioned Bugger's AGM vote as possibly a wolf-on-wolf vote--but that only works if AGM was a wolf, which you already knew he wasn't because he had already been revealed. Jaz picked up on that earlier.

---

I agree strongly with this. I've run multiple scenarios and each time something sticks out as odd.

{SUSPECT: ryan (mystery typo)}

quote:

---

For example (hypothetical), TMB is a safe vote for Bugger - thinking more than likely TMB won't be voted off with the recent AGM/Bernie exchange. Once the tiebreaker rolls around, he sticks with TMB to stay consistent, but then gets on the AGM bandwagon after the "WTF post." Now, this could be a wolf on wolf vote in the early round to later "clear" themselves, which I wouldn't put it past Bugger to do this. Again this is completely hypothetical, but something I have seen others do in the past and thought it is something I should bring up.

---

Do they have any lingo for hedging one's bets on mafiascum? Because that's what I see you doing right here.

quote:

---

Outside of this, I really see nothing descernable from the vote analysis, aside from obvious bandwagoning (already mentioned BoT, but Bugger joins TMB wagon in R1 right after PD).

---

Already answered this.

quote:

---

I am under the understanding that the Seer gets no results N0. Thus making this entire argument a moot point. Am I right or do the seers get a N0 read now?

---

No, you're right. Seers don't get to scry R0.

On to other things:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:

But having watched you play 9 WW games I have come to a rather unsavory conclusion WRT your game. In my opinion, you see WW/mafia as a continuum, and make moves based on what they will get you in future games. You may choose to be deliberately unhelpful or suspicious as a cit, simply because you know you will get revealed eventually, and you will bank that for the next game and the game after that. "Liq's gone out of his way to look suspicious the last three games... so the fact that he seems suspicious now is not suspicious." Every inscrutable/unhelpful game you play is a downpayment on your next stint as a wolf. Which AFAIC, makes you a liability, until the moment you decide to finally share something useful.

And that's all I have to say about that. Well that, and I'm done talking to you--there's no point.

---

Frankly, QFT. When I first started playing this game, actually even before that, I knew about Liq's reputation. He got captain N. He broke mafia. He was the strongest player on MOTL. You can tell I believed that stuff because I gave the order to kill him R0 in my first game.
I knew that Liq had an ego, a big one, but I figured that someone who had an ego that big would at least have the play skill to back it up.

If the last eight games of werewolf are any indication, such is most definitely not the case. As if it weren't bad enough to have an ego as massive and ravenous as his, Liq really doesn't have the playskill to match it. Liq, you're of absolutely no help to the cits regardless of your team. You don't listen to anyone else's ideas, you insult our intelligence, you spend more than half of your gameplay time stroking your ego, and I haven't once seen anything remotely impressive from you. You make contradictions all the friggin' time- one round you tell us you post everything in your mind, the next you try to tell us with a straight face that you only divulge that which you feel important. Every other sentence of yours, it seems, is spent talking about your "mafia strategy ver. 4.3.1" or some other such pretentious bull. You never contribute unless you want to, and god forbid anyone ever try to disagree. You can't make an argument worth a damn (you proved that pretty well last game), and if PD is accurate in his assessment that you only plan for when you're a wolf then you're an even more massive narcissist than I could have imagined. I know it probably burns you up to hear me say this (snotty little runt that I am, right?), but honestly? I would say GLE, PD, and ryan are all much better players than you are. See, they actually contribute.

Also, I mentioned insulting intelligence- stop evading the question. You said you never switch your vote, but you clearly did so in R1. Why?

{SUSPECT: Liq (refusing to answer question)}

I don't really have the time or the energy to devote to a seriously in-depth analysis right now as I'm in the middle of exams (and I'm going to go right back to studying after I post this), so for now I'm voting Liq.
{VOTING: Liq (dodging questions,provoking for no reason)}

[/B][/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
Searing white hot jet of flame.

---

Voting records thus far by piles:

code:

---

PLAYER             R01  TB1  R02  GRP  STA
=================  ===  ===  ===  ===  ===
BernieB            AGM  AGM  ---   1    A
Bugger             TMB  AGM  LIQ   1    A
GottaLoveElves     AGM  AGM  ---   1    A
hilikuS            AGM  AGM  GLE   1    A
Liq                JAZ  AGM  BB    1    A
XplicitR           LIQ  AGM  ---   1    A
Battle_of_Twits    BB   BB   ---   2    A
JackSpade          BOT  BOT  ---   3    A
MasterWolf         BOT  BOT  BOT   3    A
ryan2754           BOT  BOT  ---   3    A
TheMidnightBomber  ---  BOT  ---   3    A
Jazaray            JSP  TMB  ---   4    A
PlasteredDragon    TMB  TMB  ---   4    A
ThoughtsofLepers   TMB  TMB  ---   4    A
fwybwed            BB   BB         C    E
AlmasterGM         BB   BOT        C    L
Montague                           C    E

---

EDIT: and post counts

code:

---

Post Count Report
 
From: 001: 29-May 15:13 MeddlingMage - rules posted
  To: 160: 08-Jun 14:17 Bugger - Suspects ryan, takes Liq to ta...
 
Living Players:
                      R0   R1   T1   R2  TOT   P/R
Battle_of_Twits        1    3    3    2    8   2.7
BernieB                2    3    2    0    5   1.7
Bugger                 3   10    4    1   15   5.0
GottaLoveElves         1    0    0    0    0   0.0
hilikuS                2    5    1    2    8   2.7
JackSpade              1    2    1    0    3   1.0
Jazaray                1    2    1    1    4   1.3
Liq                    2    3    2    1    6   2.0
MasterWolf             1    3    1    1    5   1.7
PlasteredDragon        9   11    8    5   24   8.0
ryan2754               3    4    1    1    6   2.0
TheMidnightBomber      1    0    1    0    1   0.3
ThoughtsofLepers       1    1    1    0    2   0.7
XplicitR               1    6    1    1    8   2.7
 
Dead Players:
                      R0   R1   T1   R2  TOT   P/R
AlmasterGM             1    5    3         8   4.0
fwybwed                2    4    0         4   2.0
Montague               1                   0   0.0

---

{SUMMARY: voting records / post counts}

quote:

---

Originally posted by ryan2754:
AGM (cit) - BernieB, BoT
BernieB - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
BoT - BernieB, BernieB
Bugger - TMB (cit), AGM (cit)
Fwy - BernieB, BernieB
GLE - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
hilikuS - AGM (cit), AGM (cit)
Jack - BoT, BoT
Jaz - Jack, TMB (cit)
Liq - Jaz, AGM (cit)
MasterWolf - BoT, BoT
PD - TMB, TMB
ryan - BoT, BoT
ToL - TMB, TMB
TMB - N/A, BoT
XPR - Liq, AGM (cit)

---

This post is extremely suspicious. IIRC, the last time someone made a 'typo' just like that was GLE a few games ago when he was a wolf. And he couldn't believe he didn't get lynched for his mistake. It's odd that AGM is always listed as a cit, but you stopped listing TMB as a cit after awhile. IDK what to make of that.

{Suspect: ryan2754 (TMB is a cit?)}
{Voting: ryan2754}
{Summary: ryan's post is more of a WTF post than AGM's; Actually, AGM's post convinced me he was a cit}

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
This post is extremely suspicious. IIRC, the last time someone made a 'typo' just like that was GLE a few games ago when he was a wolf. And he couldn't believe he didn't get lynched for his mistake. It's odd that AGM is always listed as a cit, but you stopped listing TMB as a cit after awhile. IDK what to make of that.

---

EDIT: {SUMMARY: ryan's TMB=cit thing *could* be cut and paste error.}

That is all.

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 9!][My Brute!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Effective immediately GLE has been replaced by Bernek. Any and all points gained will go to Bernek.

That is all.

~MM

---

Huh.

Are we permitted to know why? (no anger or sarcasm here, just geniunely puzzled)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
Huh.

Are we permitted to know why? (no anger or sarcasm here, just geniunely puzzled)

---

He pm'ed me and asked if it was possible to get a replacement due to that pesky real life thing I keep hearing about.

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 9!][My Brute!]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Effective immediately GLE has been replaced by Bernek. Any and all points gained will go to Bernek.

That is all.

~MM

---

quote:

---

PlayerDirectory
This sheet is used for entering the names of the players, keeping a directory of all WW players, and for handling replacements (when a player backs out of a game and is replaced by another player.)
[...]
Replacement Table
From the perspective of tracking, dealing with player replacements is the most annoying thing you will have to deal with.

The way tracker handles replacements is to continue to identify the replacement by the name of the original player. So if revenger backs out, and ectomanic takes his place, posts by ectomanic will be recorded as posts by revenger. And votes for ecto should be entered as votes for revenger.

In order to tell the tracker who is acting as a replacement and when, you enter the name of the player being replaced in the Player column (column O). In the Replaced By column, enter the name of the player who will replace them. Then in the "After Post" enter the number of the last post prior to the replacement. That should do it, from that post forward the tracker will treat the replacement as if he were the person replaced.

---

EDIT: {SUMMARY: how to handle replacement of GLE with Bernek.}

In the Replacement Table:
Player: GottaLoveElves
Replaced by: Bernek77
After Post: 164

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
Yes, you make big posts with multiple quotes in them but what I was refering to was the size and detail within the post is quite different from the standard PD post.

---

Liq, can you go into detail on this a little bit further...I am intrigued by what you may have found, and would like some evidence, as I personally didn't see it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
@Ryan: It sure seemed like it to me like that was why people were voting BOT, they found him suspicious because he deleted a post..

---

Either way, it wasn't the reason I voted for him. I voted for him because of his quick bandwagon piggybacking AGM's logic.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
This particular part of your post is confusing me, how could it be a "wolf on wolf" vote, when AGM is a cit? I'm not sure what it is, but I find this post very odd from you.

---

So just because my post is confusing, I am suspicious for it? That's some pretty flawed logic.
Plus, you are making assumptions about what I said. I wasn't talking about Bugger's vote on AGM, I was talking about his R1 vote on TMB, then his stay on TMB, then switch to AGM. What I was saying was that hypothetically, TMB and Bugger could both be wolves. Bugger might have placed his vote on TMB during the whole AGM/Bernie debate, thinking that TMB (possibly his partner in crime) was in no immediate danger. I have seen it in this game too many times before, where wolves vote fellow wolves early to allay suspicions later if one comes up as wolf. After the tie, he stays with TMB to stay consistent, and then after AGM's "wtf" post, jumps on that to wrongfully lynch a cit. His vote R1 is still for TMB, which could be used later, but then goes onto AGM to wrongfully lynch cit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
GLE's actually been posting less and less as the games go on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
I didn't have to look very far.
How do you know TMB is a cit? You've indicated him as a cit here twice (underlined). Later in the same post you mentioned Bugger's AGM vote as possibly a wolf-on-wolf vote--but that only works if AGM was a wolf, which you already knew he wasn't because he had already been revealed. Jaz picked up on that earlier.

{SUSPECT: ryan (knew TMB was a cit)}

{SUMMARY: notes ryan identified TMB as a cit twice--how does he know?}

---

To be honest, and this is extremely embarrassing to say but, I get TMB and fwy confused. I have played multiple games with both of them, and ever since I played my first one with them both, I have gotten them confused. As I was writing up the voting analysis, the whole time I was thinking TMB was the individual who got canned by the wolves N2 (To me, they play very similar games [save TMB being silent this game]) with regards to posting content and style, and level of play. After re-reading the thread and realizing my mistake, I went back and deleted the (cit) next to TMB in the majority of his instances, and had though I did that for every instance. Obviously, I forgot to do so in the underlined instances you mention. Thus, it was not a copy and paste error, but a player/N2 kill confusion.

As for the second part of your post, I already explained above what I meant by the wolf on wolf vote -> Bugger on
TMB.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:

I'm sure I mentioned this already, but I've had my final exams over the course of the last few days. I'm usually much more active than this. This is also why my posts tend to come later in the day- I have exams in the morning, I study in the afternoon, and then let myself have free time only after dinner (when my medicine wears off). That's also why I have been in some cases late to declare- it's the end of the day and sometimes some of the things I want to point out, people beat me to the punch. Also, if you'll check the timestamps on the post where I declare for TMB and PD declares, you'll notice they are (IIRC) three or so minutes apart. I can't type up that large a post in less than three minutes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
What ryan meant (If I understood him correctly) is that if TMB were a wolf as well, I could have voted him to make myself look better should he be lynched late game- but I just waited until a better wagon came along to get off of him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
Do they have any lingo for hedging one's bets on mafiascum? Because that's what I see you doing right here.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
This post is extremely suspicious. IIRC, the last time someone made a 'typo' just like that was GLE a few games ago when he was a wolf. And he couldn't believe he didn't get lynched for his mistake. It's odd that AGM is always listed as a cit, but you stopped listing TMB as a cit after awhile. IDK what to make of that.

{Suspect: ryan2754 (TMB is a cit?)}
{Voting: ryan2754}
{Summary: ryan's post is more of a WTF post than AGM's; Actually, AGM's post convinced me he was a cit}

I should have another post up sometime tonight.

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See reasoning above why AGM is listed as cit (he's dead), and why TMB has instances of (cit) next to his name.

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
Liq, can you go into detail on this a little bit further...I am intrigued by what you may have found, and would like some evidence, as I personally didn't see it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
To be honest, and this is extremely embarrassing to say but, I get TMB and fwy confused. I have played multiple games with both of them, and ever since I played my first one with them both, I have gotten them confused. ... (To me, they play very similar games [save TMB being silent this game]) with regards to posting content and style, and level of play.

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You confuse TMB and fwy because they are similar? Maybe it's just me but I don't find them similar at all. Fwy is reactionary, combative, and a pretty bad player. TMB is not an allstar but he's better than fwy, and typically more reserved. I really don't see how you could confuse them. For the record, if you had said it was a cut-and-paste error I would be more inclined to believe you, but this?

{VOTING: ryan (TMB = fwy? I don't think so.)}

I don't place this vote lightly--I dislike voting a strong player in R2. You're an excellent player, but as a wolf you are potentially very dangerous. And it is precisely because you are an excellent player that I have trouble believing you would confuse two very different players. If it was fwy and Bernek I might have bought it, but fwy and TMB? No. Sometimes a cigar is not a cigar.

{SUMMARY: voting ryan for claim that he confuses fwy and TMB}

quote:

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
Liq, can you go into detail on this a little bit further...I am intrigued by what you may have found, and would like some evidence, as I personally didn't see it.

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The average PD post when accusing someone is about 4 paragraphs with a summary paragraph. A long winded PD post is about 10 paragraphs. This is about 50.

The detail of PD's posting is usually in the form of a string. Unbroken and direct. When referencing another player or event, each tie in with each other. This post however goes into 8 individual players, then casts suspicion on 2 additional players and ends up with a vote upon yet another player. Now that is covering your bases which to me is a standard Liq move.

As per the actual detail:

1. Liq - Liq being Liq
2. ToL - WIFOM
3. Fwyb - Half the post to Respond
4. Ryan - Gaining XP
5. MW - BoT's MIA Post
6. BoT - Deleting Posts
7. AGM - Liabilities
8. XPR - Liq

These are 8 sample cups to be used when necessary. Not the usual PD string.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
{SUSPECT: Liq (OOC by his own yardstick: switched vote, not killed by wolves R0N)}
{SUSPECT: Bugger,Jaz (target of Monty's WW9 diatribe)}
{SUSPECT: BOT (wagoning -- see ryan's argument)}

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After about 18 page scrolls, I see that you suspect Bugger and Jaz because Monty died.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
{VOTING: TMB (silent play)}

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Then there's the standard PD accusation. 4 paragraphs of "lite" level accusation with a summary paragraph on current game state.

To me this post is 2 different PD posts mashed into one.

One long winded PD post (x4) PLUS a standard PD accusation post (a bit on the lite side)

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
...To me this post is 2 different PD posts mashed into one.

One long winded PD post (x4) PLUS a standard PD accusation post (a bit on the lite side)...

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Basically what you are saying is that my post looks very much like one might expect it to look given the scenario I had forewarned about (multiple times in this thread), and the preface and afterward on the post itself.

What a find Liq.

EDIT: {SUMMARY: points out the folly of Liq's "discovery" that the nature of PD's long post is exactly what the post itself said it was}

If you guys think Liq is a crappy player, tell him in between games, talk to him on AIM or something. During the game is where you actually play the game.

Not to mention Liq has been helpful. I'd say about as helpful as he always has. The thing is, with everybody else ranting and raving about how people should play and who sucks and who's ZOMG awesome at this game, there's not much to comment on that's worthwhile. Liq is a minimalist when it comes to this game. The way I see it, he posts what's important in his view, and doesn't coat it with his opinions or whatever. This way, everybody else can get a clear, and hopefully unbiased view of the evidence. I personally think it's more helpful than pages of analysis, because I prefer to take what you all find and hash it out myself. I think that's how it should be. The more points of view you can come up with, the better. The more ideas there are on the table to work with.

It's ironic that everybody does 50x more talking for Liq than he does for himself, but that's how it's been. I think his posts should be viewed with the same grain of salt as everybody else's. No need to get butthurt because he doesn't like your tracker, or because you're not sure what his posts mean.

With all that said, I'd like to move onto my current ideas.

I think the crap about Liq could possibly be an intentional way to derail the thread, and deviate the citizens from making good decisions about wolves. I see that there are now 2 players who are on Liq about his stuff. The latest has been Ryan. Now, I wouldn't put PD on this play because he's regularly annoyed by Liq. So his behavior seems pretty normal here. It's definitely not out of the question that he could be using it as a ploy, but it's definitely not out of character for him to be irritated by Liq. Ryan on the other hand seems to have joined the fray just recently.

What I'm getting at is, I think one of these two is deliberately trying to make this play.

Ryan: I played as a mafia with him in Liq's game, and he was very methodical with his mafia hits. He was the leader in that game, and was PMing me a lot about his theories and ideas about who he wanted to hit next. He was also very very effective at keeping people off his back in that game. I don't think he got a single vote against him, or at least very few votes. I think this sort of ploy could not only be something he thought of, but judging from my experience there, I think it's likely. He was a very sneaky mafia.

PD: PD specializes in information and number crunching. For me, his whole playstyle involves around grabbing as much info as possible, and reporting it. The idea is that the more info you have, the more likely you are to find wolves. Which makes sense. It seems to be what you do with the info more than how much you have, but it's helpful as many of you are using his tracker. You obviously agree. However, I think he might be taking a different, less structured approach to this game. Now, as I said, he could be just annoyed by Liq, but if he's trying to make a play, it's a very bold one for him. He'd be using his own tendencies to hide, which I haven't seen him do as of yet. He spends a ton of time with this game though, so I still can't put it past him.

From what I've seen with PD and when he happens to be a wolf, he shows a difference in his play, at least with how he reacts to me personally. Usually when he's was a citizen, he would pretty much let me know when he thought I had a bad argument. There was much more scrutiny from his posts with regards to mine, and others. When he was a wolf, he eased up and tried to leave me alone. For instance: my random hunches weren't lucky anymore, they were uncanny. Stuff like that. I have noticed this a bit in this particular game. That's always a trigger for me in regards to PD. We've gone back and forth quite a bit, so I feel I have a bit of a better idea with him than most other players who I don't interact with a lot. It's hard to not interact with PD in this game.

I think that one, or possibly both (don't hold me to that though) are possible werewolves. I'm almost hoping this crap about Liq has a werewolf play. Otherwise I call schenanigans.

Hopefully that makes enough sense for you all to see what I mean.

EDIT: Sprucing it up.

__________________
Originally posted by GLE:
And man... what happens when we get past 300 GDs? Will we need a second MOTL?

And then past 300 MOTLs... we'll need a new internet!

Bugger, now that I am playing you can vote for me. Isn't that good news for you. LOL

OK after reading the entire posts till now I have to admit things do stick out to me.

Ryan you didn't get to play last round as you were the R0N kill. I think your play up to this point has been a bit rusty seeing as you haven't played a few games. I would like to see the ryan of old before you get lynched for it.

I am voting for Jaz, up till a few posts ago he didn't post anything with meaning. Then she attacked Ryan. From what I have read hasn't really been that off. As much as I hate to agree with PD who I might add is second on my radar. She likes the return kill. However, more importantly it has cover potential. Why would she do that? It would bring attention to her. Nah she is a veteran. he wouldn't do that. I think that is what she is counting on.

She did do it to me and I def can see her doing it again.

Voting Jaz

Watching PD

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

AFA me being nicer to you when I am a wolf? You are no doubt thinking of WW7, and you did make some uncanny guesses, but it was also the WWs strategy that game to try and keep you in until the end so that the population would have a popular target to vote for, and because you are useful to the wolves, so I had to stroke you a little.

In this game?

Your argument stinks. Jaz didn't "attack" ryan, she asked him one simple question about his post. She marked him as a suspect, and she hasn't commented on his response. Some attack. He has two votes on him and NONE of them are Jaz.

This is just like you Bernek, you lapdog the strong players incessantly and it blinds you to when they actually appear guilty. I warned you about it last game and here you are again defending Liq, defending ryan, and going after the people who've levelled accusations at them.

Liq's out of character by his own yardstick, has been called on it multiple times, and refuses to comment on it.

ryan's claiming to confuse two very different players in a manner totally at odds with his skill level.

But this doesn't interest you at all.

I'm not surprised.

{SUMMARY: torpedoing Bernek's argument}