You're a good mod. I love ya... don't worry about all this... just keep being awesome =)

We've got much respect for you as well as all the other mods.

im pretty sure most of u (90%+?) dont really care that i got 'ripped,' and are out to save ur own ass in future trades - which is 'perfectly all right,' but yelling at the mods/admins wont help. sure, u can quote whatever im typing up now and start an argument with me (and most likely win cuz i suck at debating...) but that wont help ur future trades either so calm the eff down.
now im as angry as the next guy at how the ruling went (actually, thats not true cuz the next guy didnt lose 2 volcs) but insulting ppl wont help me get my volcs or get u a 'safer' online trading environment. friends from local playgroups have told me to trade within the community so ive started doing that more often recently. to be perfectly honest, ive not made up my mind on whether or not to continue trading here (or trading online in general) but thats beside the point. if u live in a small rural town (like hooskdaddy said he does) and do not have a lot of ppl to trade with, well...i dont have a solution for your problem but insulting ppl over the internet isnt the solution. calm the eff down.

on a side note, hooskdaddy said that he needed his volcs for this weekend to play rug so he ordered 2 for me off ebay from some danbock guy...they came but were more ex than nm...meh. not sure what he said was true but whatever...still pretty sure i was scammed. paragondave posted saying that hes sending me 2 volcs for free and that is fact. they are on their way so big thanks to dave. hes a great guy =)

on another note, i still need 1-2 volcs for something else...ANYONE have any for trade?

in closing, PEOPLE CALM THE EFF DOWN!

I just re-read this entire thread, and I didn't see a single instance where an individual claimed that the ruling was made solely because the accused was Hoosk. Not only did I not see a single person say that, I certainly didn't see "some" (implying at least a few) of us make that claim. As offended as you seem to be about these phantom statements that may or may not have been made, I'm sure the rest of us are equally as offended for being called out by a mod for something none of us seem to have done.

Not gonna lie, portlis, but Jaz is right. I agreed with Josh when he made that comment - hell, even now I am going back and forth on what I think the ruling should be - on whether it's a big deal or NOT a big deal, as more evidence and arguments are brought onto the table (I said this in a previous post). I seem to go back and forth continually. So if a member like myself continues to go back and forth, I can see how HARD it is for a mod to make a decision in this case.
In addition, I can understand how Jaz would be upset about people saying the mods were being partial. Especially me, a member since '01 who Jaz has spent a decent amount of her own time connecting with (when I made a thread about engagement and sex, Jaz was one of the few who openly discussed my concerns with me), and yeah I feel bad, and I can understand where she's coming from. I apologize to Jaz for making her angry - I don't mean it - she has been a great mod, as have ALL the mods here (this is complete sincerity).
The mods have a decision to make.
I, like other members of the MOTL community, feel this decision is a big one. I just think that they made a very quick decision initially on the BTA, but I am just voicing my opinion. If Jaz is mad at me, that's fine - I'd rather not have it be so, but I can understand why she would be.

Being a mod on this site has to be a tough job, as Jaz aluded to when it comes to people who are established members of the MOTL community, who are friends, who just happened to make a wrong decision (ML490 comes to mind for me).
Hell, it would be hella difficult for me, if I were Mod, to be partial in a case involving guys like AGO, Plastered Dragon (boy do I miss him) if they were indeed in the wrong.
Either way, what I am saying is, despite me being a partial culprit, I can fully understand Jaz's current defensive attitude.

But since you asked in a post, I will answer you.
So IF he was telling the truth then he should still be responsible. He didn't bring anything up about leaving town/already left town/about to leave town during negotiation or confirmation or even when i said i sent and told him that canadapost estimated 4 days! All he said was "ill be surprised if its 4 days. I dont think ive ever had anything come that quick from canada lol." Then when we both got the email saying it arrived he suddenly says that he was out of town. Do I think he's responsible? Obviously not. Do I think what he says is a fricken lie? YES!!!
Could he have been telling the truth? I guess its possible, but I just don't believe it. I remember you said in the pm that you doubt a member like him would deliberately rip me. Well I don't know why he would rip me either. According to him he owns an entire cardstore. I wonder if he missed any shipments from his suppliers during those 10 days too.

Now some of you may be thinking, "Wow...why's this kid flipping out about 4 rev volc islands..?" Well, the reason is that I pool cards with a friend of mine and that the 4 volcs are worth more than half the value of all our traders/collection/decks combined. Just a fun fact - most of you won't care.

But of course rules are rules and they have to be enforced even when they don't make sense. I'm not saying that the mods are at fault or that they were wrong to make a judgment based on the letters of the rule. I'm just saying that the rules don't make sense and do not protect the members properly. I really don't know whether or not I'm saying because this may mean I send first, they claim no receive - I lose cards and postage. Or better yet, I send second and they claim no receive - I lose cards and postage x2 because I have to send their stuff back. Wouldn't it be funny if when I send their stuff back they claim no receive again? Hahahaha.....even refs won't save me.

Anyway, I do agree with you that this doesn't have too much to do with how the ruling went. It doesn't even relate to the topic of this thread lol
Well, I'm going to drop the subject here and take my own advice. Going to calm the eff down and go to sleep now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryusei24:
k guys, as ive mentioned in my last post (a week or so ago..?), all of you need to calm the eff down. none of u have had your mail stolen or have a recipient make up an excuse and say no receive.

im pretty sure most of u (90%+?) dont really care that i got 'ripped,' and are out to save ur own ass in future trades - which is 'perfectly all right,' but yelling at the mods/admins wont help. sure, u can quote whatever im typing up now and start an argument with me (and most likely win cuz i suck at debating...) but that wont help ur future trades either so calm the eff down.
now im as angry as the next guy at how the ruling went (actually, thats not true cuz the next guy didnt lose 2 volcs) but insulting ppl wont help me get my volcs or get u a 'safer' online trading environment. friends from local playgroups have told me to trade within the community so ive started doing that more often recently. to be perfectly honest, ive not made up my mind on whether or not to continue trading here (or trading online in general) but thats beside the point. if u live in a small rural town (like hooskdaddy said he does) and do not have a lot of ppl to trade with, well...i dont have a solution for your problem but insulting ppl over the internet isnt the solution. calm the eff down.

on a side note, hooskdaddy said that he needed his volcs for this weekend to play rug so he ordered 2 for me off ebay from some danbock guy...they came but were more ex than nm...meh. not sure what he said was true but whatever...still pretty sure i was scammed. paragondave posted saying that hes sending me 2 volcs for free and that is fact. they are on their way so big thanks to dave. hes a great guy =)

on another note, i still need 1-2 volcs for something else...ANYONE have any for trade?

in closing, PEOPLE CALM THE EFF DOWN!

hmm...i wonder if ill get warnings for posting this...

---

Dude, seriously? WE need to "calm the eff down"? Look at your own post. I don't think anyone here isn't calm except for you.

I don't even understand how people continue to come here and say that people need to "calm down" or "back off the mods" or anything of the sort. I've looked back through this entire thread and 99% of the posts are extremely calm, on topic, and just discussing the matter at hand as concerned MOTL users. I don't understand what the problem is with that. Yes, some of us have serious concerns about it and are taking it seriously, but no one is flying off the handle unnecessarily here. I don't see many of us YELLING at the admins (maybe 1 person, and that was a week ago?). Heck, from what I can tell, a good portion of the mods themselves disagree with the ruling and are concerned about it too.

Our/my motivation for coming here to discuss this topic is irrelevant. Whether we personally care about you getting "ripped" or not doesn't really matter. Personally, I do feel sorry for you in your specific situation, but I will agree that my main concern here is making sure the same thing doesn't happen to me in future sales / trades. And you know what? I don't think that me being concerned about my future transactions is a bad thing.

The entire last two pages of this topic are a pointless waste of time with people bickering amongst each other and unnecessarily yelling "calm down!" when everyone is calm in the first place. I continue to check this topic only because I want to see if there's been a resolution to the matter entirely, and unfortunately instead we've just got people stirring the pot because they are somehow offended by something or offended because they feel others are offended. It's seriously silly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryusei24:
According to him he owns an entire cardstore. I wonder if he missed any shipments from his suppliers during those 10 days too.

---

More so, why not use his store address over his home adress...why cuz he knows stuff gets taken from there thats why...lol

Except for a few people, I also don't see anyone "yelling" at us mods, or the admins. Just people that are concerned about MOTL's future. Yeah, I'll bet a lot of people don't really care about your case because of you, persay, but because of the implications it would mean to future trading on MOTL. Can you blame them?

I'm also not sure WHY your last thought on that post was wondering if you'd get smacked for it..

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
I didn't see myself as "yelling at people", I saw myself expressing that I was hurt that people would think that I, or any mod/admin, would make a ruling because of anything other than the facts of the case, and the rules of the site. It gets pretty tiring being accused of bias, or playing favorites, or however it's said, when you rule against someone. IE: Animosity vs Tonberry - I was accused no less than three times of ruling the way I did because I was "friends" with Animosity, when the truth of the matter was, I had never even talked to him before that case. Ryusei himself, in his first two sentences implied that he was afraid the case wouldn't even be heard because Hooskdaddy was "well known" and had a lot of refs.

---

Jaime, it shouldn't matter what some people think. The majority of MOTL members know the great jobs you, Jeff, and Ben do with little help and a lot of problems. I know it must hurt...but all I'm saying is don't engage with these people. You as a Mod should know not to engage with thes people. You were selected to set a higher/greater example. Yes, occasionally that may mean you take scrutiny, or someone is gonig ot say something about you you don't want to hear that is their opinion. You have to take it though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
How can you NOT see that saying the case would have been ruled differently had Hooskdaddy been on the other end is an attack on our partiality? I love you tons Josh, but that really hurt. I strive, have ALWAYS strived, to be an impartial judge. You don't think I've had people up on the BTA that I've considered friends? You don't think I've had to rule against them? Ban them even? You think I didn't WANT to rule in their favor, so as not to ban them? I admit it, I would have loved to have not banned iakae, or neo darkside. They were (and ARE) both my friends. Granted, I've never actually met iakae, but I've talked to him for years (and still do), in fact, waaay back when he was still an admin and started talking to me, I had a bit of a hero worship thing going (OMG! iakae is talking to ME?!?). I actually met Neo, he came to the MOTL party, he came to RI and had coffee with me quite a few times. We had a great friendship going, would still have one, if he'd get back in touch (I hope..) I am so very worried about him, as I haven't heard back from him since that case. Yeah, there are quite a few people that I've had to ban, that I would rather not have had to. And yes, on the other side of the coin, there are people that are still here that I would love to ban! But, I do my job. I follow the rules of the site and I enforce them as well. No matter WHO you are.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Hey Daner...Name drop much lol

---

Name drop what? I'm pretty sure people know who Ben, Jeff, and Jaime are if they have been around here long enough. Those are the mods if you don't know....it's not like it's a secret as to the mods first names....we DO make trades with these people. It's not like they are a secret society of internet police. The other name was Josh...who I was reffering to an argument he brought up. His username is JoshSherman....what would you want me to call him? Fiddlesticks McGillacuddy?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Name drop what? I'm pretty sure people know who Ben, Jeff, and Jaime are if they have been around here long enough. Those are the mods if you don't know....it's not like it's a secret as to the mods first names....we DO make trades with these people. It's not like they are a secret society of internet police. The other name was Josh...who I was reffering to an argument he brought up. His username is JoshSherman....what would you want me to call him? Fiddlesticks McGillacuddy?

Nice job at trying to troll though.

---

We're not a secret society!?!? OMG and I thought we wuz special!

I get what you're saying daner. I know you and I have clashed a bit over the years ourselves, so coming from you, that means quite a lot. So, I will apologize for bringing that onto the boards, Josh and I (and ryan and I) have spoken privately and have resolved any issues between us, if there were, in fact, any issues at all.

I know you all say that I should just take all the mudslinging that I get, and most of the time, I do (OK, so I complain via IM/mIRC to some select few at times. ) Sometimes, it just all builds up and erupts. I am only human. I have my faults too, I'm not perfect. I will try to do better.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Fiddlesticks McGillacuddy

---

oh ****-- how'd you figure out my real name?

What I said is an extremely poor representation of what I meant, which implied that if a BTA case were to be filed in the instance I brought up, that it would not be handled with utmost respect and impariality by the staff working the case. I truly regret the disparity between the two-- what I meant to say and what I actually said. I stand by what I meant to say, though, but am not interested in entering further discussion about it-- including clarifying it further-- at this time. No, I was not coerced into making this apology. Really.

"Why not just use thier MOTL User tags instead of their real names cuz Im sure MANY do not know their real names...in a thread where alot of traders do not know the mods personally or on a level as you...

You name dropped to show some kind of kinship which is sad.

admit it cuz there is no other real reason to use their actual names lol

SAD...And dont reply please and thank you."

Ok, since you are such a MAN to hit and run I'll respond so that everyone can see it...bc you said not to respond to you.

I do not know Nderdog(Jeff), Jazaray(Jamie), ThaGunslinga(Ben), or Inca911(Forrest) on a personal level. I know their names because after being here for over a decade, and making a lot of trades, I just know their names by now. JoshSherman's real name is....Josh Sherman. How shocking! My real name is....Dane I know what a blowout! Bet you thought it was Phillip.

I've met Josh once at a Pre-re and he lives relativly close to me, the amount of arguing we have done I couldn't count given a army of hands. Jazaray and I have had numerous documented run-ins. Nderdog and I have had heated discussion, I've even bickered with Inca. The only person I've not bickered with is Slinga....I've met him once at a GP. ONCE!

Yea, I'm in the "in" crowd for sure.

If you think I have some sort of kinship with the moderators you sir are in fact the sad one. Not only are you sad but you are dead wrong, and you assume way too much. You're being paranoid.

Again, their names aren't a secret...and many MOTL'rs don't even address Jazaray as Jazary, it's usually Jaz or Jaime.

But again...paranoid. I seriously just love how you wont even talk to me about it...rather just try to force your opinion down my throat without response.....but you get it anyway. Thx for playing.

EDIT: Here, let me give you my real opinion on the subject and the rest of how this migh turn out.

The ruling, I feel, was wrong. It is NOT the Mods fault and people should try as best as possible not to direct anger at them. The mods did not fail us, the system failed us. I understand that some have, and some will continue to do so because they ARE the only people you can turn to for questions.

A lot of members have made it clear that a policy change would be nice, and given that every other major site uses DC as proof we should too. Yes, we can still be ripped...but no way is fool proof...so why not just be like everyone else so we have a CLEAR understanding, and we are also not different than any other site. Nobody can cry...well that's not how it's run on "blank".

-
-

the thread.

On that note, I feel that a good deal of online trading is based on good faith. When it's not good faith, we take our little advantages, such as asking one person to send first. Even then, however, we operate under the faith that they will send something, and won't just empty envelope us.

To me, the rules seem fine as is, unless we want to remove good faith from the internet (it was even in the internet to begin with? That's how awesome online trading communities are.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Stuff

---

Very strange thing to bicker over...

I refer to most people by their real names too on here, if I know them.

We (Dane & I) refer to each other by our real names all the time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thanos:
Very strange thing to bicker over...

---

Trust me I'm almost as confused as I was frustrated that someone would say that. What I don't get is that he wants me to admit to it...but then doesn't want me to respond to him.

Shrug. Weird.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:I'm baffled as well. As you said Daner, most people call me either Jaz or Jaime. When I find out someone's a MOTLer (IRL) I first introduce myself as "Jaz" and then my real name, and I'll respond to any of the three. I, myself, switch from calling (or referring to) Jeff as Jeff or nder and Ben as Ben or 'Slinga. Depends on the mood I'm in. Quite frankly... I don't think we're "famous" enough to even consider calling it "name dropping" lol. Shrug. Weird. Thanks,Jazaray

---

__________________
Motl member since November 1, 2000

Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner!

38th in refs on Motl! - 4 behind whocares

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Hey Daner...Name drop much lol

---

Am I the only one that saw the 'lol' at the end of this? Doesn't that sort of mean, ummm laughing? Everyone has such thin skin. How about we get back to fretting over the stuff that matters, like the name of the thread?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Trust me I'm almost as confused as I was frustrated that someone would say that. What I don't get is that he wants me to admit to it...but then doesn't want me to respond to him.

Some people's kids. :/

---

It is something that was meant as a joke, I explained that I knew the people he was speaking of...and I never meant for it to be demeaning or insulting. I did tell him that originally it was meant to be a joke, and seeing as he took it so seriously and was offended, I felt then maybe I hit a nerve. My bad...

Now he calls me a liar lol WOW!

But I was informed by others that this is his nature and is bit of a "personality" so I will leave it at that.

Roger

But back to biznezz at hand...Any results or new info in regards to the actual thread

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
It is something that was meant as a joke, I explained that I knew the people he was speaking of...and I never meant for it to be demeaning or insulting. I did tell him that originally it was meant to be a joke, and seeing as he took it so seriously and was offended, I felt then maybe I hit a nerve. My bad...

Now he calls me a liar lol WOW!

But I was informed by others that this is his nature and is bit of a "personality" so I will leave it at that.

---

Yup...my "personality" flaw if you will. Nobody else would take that pm as a direct jab, especially when it's not true. Like I said I'm baffled by getting called out for name dropping....I'm even more baffled now that I have a "personality" bc I responded to the pm.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
I'm baffled as well. As you said Daner, most people call me either Jaz or Jaime. When I find out someone's a MOTLer (IRL) I first introduce myself as "Jaz" and then my real name, and I'll respond to any of the three. I, myself, switch from calling (or referring to) Jeff as Jeff or nder and Ben as Ben or 'Slinga. Depends on the mood I'm in. Quite frankly... I don't think we're "famous" enough to even consider calling it "name dropping" lol.

Shrug. Weird.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

Would it be more weird if I called you the "Queen" of MOTL? I mean, sicne we didn't have the 2011-12 MOTL Awards you still are reigning Queen. I just don't want to have someone say I'm sucking up to you if I refer to you as the "Queen" of MOTL. *shrug* You can never win with people on the internet...you'd have thought I'd have learned this by now.... -_-

EDIT: 11 days and counting on this....well, just THIS actual topic/thread. Do any mods know if and when we might be hearing from Leshrac?

Last I remember he was pretty hard to get a hold of during the big MOTL crash, and Inca mentioned a few times I think about being in permanant control/buying out the site from him of some sorts.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

---

Originally posted by thror:
Yea, it has been two weeks since this crapstorm started, are we anywhere close to a resolution/policy change/policy clarification?

---

You need to drop some names if you want your questions answered.

Dane we met once at GP Columbus and I don't remember you having a personality.

OK enough of the terrible jokes.

I have recently posted a trade list and have been browsing lists . I have noticed a lot of people adding a rule to circumvent this system flaw. I have the utmost faith in the Admins to fix this and the Mods to uphold any and all rules . While most people are "afraid" of something like this happening to them just remember the people who run and enforce this site are of the highest quality.

Special note to Jazaray ( I normally call you Jaz but I don't want to get anyones panties in a bunch by dropping names)

You being upset is a good thing for the community. It goes to show how much you care. You should never take anything personal on the internet . I know you know that . It's hard to not take something personal when your passionate about it.