quote:

---

Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
It does

Norn's Annex
3{pW}{pW}
Artifact
Creatures can't attack you or planeswalkers
you control unless their controller pays {pW}
for each attacking creature.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Drexus:
will the opponent be obligated to pay the cost if able?

---

No. From the comprehensive rules:

quote:

---

Originally posted by lmdemasi:
No. From the comprehensive rules:

508.1d The active player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it’s affected by any requirements (effects that say a creature must attack, or that it must attack if some condition is met). If the number of requirements that are being obeyed is fewer than the maximum possible number of requirements that could be obeyed without disobeying any restrictions, the declaration of attackers is illegal. If a creature can’t attack unless a player pays a cost, that player is not required to pay that cost, even if attacking with that creature would increase the number of requirements being obeyed.

---

Well thank you....I did not know that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffycow:
Unless there has been some serious rule changes, your opponent can choose not to pay the cost and his creatures just will not attack

---

So what you're saying is that his creatres just won't attack. So Gideon can lure his guys to battle and he can either A. Pay life or W to attack, or B. Choose not to attack...which basically makes him skip his attack phase each turn.

Isn't that still good then? Isn't it like Moat but better in that sense?

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Well thank you....I did not know that.

So what you're saying is that his creatres just won't attack. So Gideon can lure his guys to battle and he can either A. Pay life or W to attack, or B. Choose not to attack...which basically makes him skip his attack phase each turn.

Isn't that still good then? Isn't it like Moat but better in that sense?

Card still seems fine.

---

Norn's Annex looks decent at first, then you realized it is actually not that great against aggro nowadays. The option to pay life instead of mana really hurts its playability. An aggro player probably doesn't care much about his life total when he is playing against control, so at the end of the day, the card will probably read as:

"3, Artifact. When this comes into play, you lose 4 life. Whenever an opponent attacks you with a creature, that player loses 2 life for each creature attacking."

Another thing is, there aren't that many swarm decks in standard right now, other than Kuldotha Red and WW/WG Quest, which they can easily get you down to a low enough life total by turn 3 that you won't be comfortable dropping Norn's Annex for 3 mana and 4 life.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Well thank you....I did not know that.

So what you're saying is that his creatres just won't attack. So Gideon can lure his guys to battle and he can either A. Pay life or W to attack, or B. Choose not to attack...which basically makes him skip his attack phase each turn.

Isn't that still good then? Isn't it like Moat but better in that sense?

Card still seems fine.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffycow:
I was referring to the fact that you implied gideon and the annex was some kind of combo that would drain your opponent's life, I had no comment on what I thought of the card.

---

Yea...and I was referring to the fact that I DID NOT know the cards interacted that way. It's not as good when your opponent can choose not to attack but like I said if they don't attack that A.Only builds up Gideon B.shuts off their attack phase permanently until they do decide to atack C. When they finally do attack they now have to pay life just to bring down Gideon which they probably can't with one attack.

In a aggro vs aggro mirror it seems like an akward Tangle Wire in a sense. When you use to play TW you always got to untap 1 extra permanent, so in the aggro mirror you had an extra attacker each turn so you were ahead in the life race. This is sort of like that. You put in the initial 4 life but then your opponent has to either pay 2 life for each attacker, or pay W, which is probably worse for them to dump mana just to attack.

QUOTE]Originally posted by junichi:
Norn's Annex looks decent at first, then you realized it is actually not that great against aggro nowadays. The option to pay life instead of mana really hurts its playability. An aggro player probably doesn't care much about his life total when he is playing against control, so at the end of the day, the card will probably read as:

"3, Artifact. When this comes into play, you lose 4 life. Whenever an opponent attacks you with a creature, that player loses 2 life for each creature attacking."

Another thing is, there aren't that many swarm decks in standard right now, other than Kuldotha Red and WW/WG Quest, which they can easily get you down to a low enough life total by turn 3 that you won't be comfortable dropping Norn's Annex for 3 mana and 4 life.

[/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by daner:
Ok, well what about the aggro mirror like I just said? You put in the initial 4 life, but your opponent probably pays 6-8 life(or spends turns usuing all his mana) at least in attacking. Isn't that a fine race card?

---

I thought about that as a SB card for RDW mirror, but I would rather bring in Dragon's Claw instead. Once again, until swarm decks are hugely popular, I don't think this card would be as awesome as you think (I thought it was awesome when I first read the card too...).

Anyway, maybe a fog deck can use this!?

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

~Revenger

__________________
Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner!

This sig is prepping you all for the 2011 Motl Awards! Getting your votes now!

quote:

---

Originally posted by junichi:
I thought about that as a SB card for RDW mirror, but I would rather bring in Dragon's Claw instead. Once again, until swarm decks are hugely popular, I don't think this card would be as awesome as you think (I thought it was awesome when I first read the card too...).

Anyway, maybe a fog deck can use this!?

---

Well I do think this card will find a home somewhere. We still have most of this set to be spoiled and also M12 soon. I have faith this card will show up in decks come GP Pittsburgh. Who knows...they might not reprint Dragon's Claw

__________________
welcome to the wonderful world of card-board crack, please sit down and prepare to get mana-screwed.

things i am working on with friends
http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/Luminosity

http://www.squidoo.com/mmmm-knowledge-bookstore

http://myworld.ebay.com/unixarcade/

http://www.amazon.com/[/small]


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Jazaray on April 12, 2011]

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
hello i know i have been gone for a while and i know this post will probably result in me getting some bad mouth from other players. i recently quit magic paper version, due to lack of jace tms. all i do is draft as drafting makes me money. i was going to come back soon but thx to new phyrexia i am not coming back until it rotates from standard. The new psudeo hybrid ability is <snip>, i do not care what anyone says, i hated when magic intrdoced hybrid to us as it made the cards lie to you and it makes it hard to stragagize for any situation. i can see a broken card coming out that cost just phyrexian symbol(s) and it <snip> powerful, i already see the extract, i think there is far worse to come. i hate this fact because i think i am the only player who likes infect in draft and in standard and in any inviroment, infact i hope we do NOT get any way to remove the counters from the player. We need an infect planeswalker, that would be cool, i might come back for that but this new mana/life cost that makes cards everycolor is kinda worse then hybrid. why do they keep doing this every other set? shards of alara had hybrid and cascade which were bad abilites and now the third set introduces, hybrid 2.0 which is totally warped. i iwll miss standard for a while and i hope to come back to a decnt time period of playing, i think it sucks as this block was looking to be best block ever and now it is almost worst then Kamagawa block, (i can't even spell it right, that how bad the block was) the hex parasite guy is the best card debued so far and he should make a huge impact on the standard enviroment as its going to be infect infect infect and jace tms rulling the battlefeild all day. white will have chance thx to the new knight, but i do not think its enough unless the sword is uber-good.

---

I am not gonna hate on you, but you will be hated on...a lot.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
...stuff...

---

So, magic is bad because it changes? lol...

quote:

---

Originally posted by caquaa:
So, magic is bad because it changes? lol...

also, did you say cascade was bad? really?

---

Cascade was awful.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
rant... and a missuse of the word gay

---

I agree to a certain extent that this new way of paying for spells kinda ignores the color pie, and the mana pool for that matter, but I wouldn;t say it's a bad ability. I just don't liek it flavor-wise.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
i recently quit magic paper version, due to lack of jace tms. all i do is draft as drafting makes me money.

---

If drafting makes you money, why can't you just buy Jaces?

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
The new psudeo hybrid ability is <snip>, i do not care what anyone says, i hated when magic intrdoced hybrid to us as it made the cards lie to you and it makes it hard to stragagize for any situation. i can see a broken card coming out that cost just phyrexian symbol(s) and it <snip> powerful,

---

As you already know, using words like this in context like this is a smackable offense.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
i hate this fact because i think i am the only player who likes infect in draft and in standard and in any inviroment,

---

You need to get out more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
infact i hope we do NOT get any way to remove the counters from the player.

---

Mark Rosewater already said this wasn't going to happen.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
i think it sucks as this block was looking to be best block ever and now it is almost worst then Kamagawa block, (i can't even spell it right, that how bad the block was)

---

We forgive you. Your post is rife with spelling and grammatical errors.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
the hex parasite guy is the best card debued so far and he should make a huge impact on the standard enviroment as its going to be infect infect infect and jace tms rulling the battlefeild all day. white will have chance thx to the new knight, but i do not think its enough unless the sword is uber-good.

---

For someone who doesn't care about Standard, you seem to like theorizing about it an awful lot.

OGB, when someone uses inappropriate words, please do NOT quote them. ~ Jaz
__________________
2010 Homer Simpson Award Winner

__________________
welcome to the wonderful world of card-board crack, please sit down and prepare to get mana-screwed.

things i am working on with friends
http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/Luminosity

http://www.squidoo.com/mmmm-knowledge-bookstore

http://myworld.ebay.com/unixarcade/

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
allow me to explain my reasoning. hybrid cards were annoying as none of them were any good, and as a player i like to gear my mind as a standard machine i know every card legal in standard and when u play mana i start eliminating possible cards you may play, this makes it easier to process and beat most decks.

---

If I were to drop some toothpicks on the floor, could you instantaneously tell me how many there were? Or perhaps how many minutes until Wapner?

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
you introduce cards that lie to you and i get brain cramps and it is very headacheish. i also do not like that the color pie is told to go f--- itself all day. cascade was bad because there was no skill involved, it was "i tap mana and oops i win" when ur opponent's best move was to scoop it up and try again next game. infect requires some skill, not much but some.

---

If you're bemoaning a deck that you claim has no skill involved, and championing a deck that is only slightly more skill-intensive, you probably shouldn't concern yourself with memorizing every card in Standard.

__________________
2010 Homer Simpson Award Winner

__________________
welcome to the wonderful world of card-board crack, please sit down and prepare to get mana-screwed.

things i am working on with friends
http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/Luminosity

http://www.squidoo.com/mmmm-knowledge-bookstore

http://myworld.ebay.com/unixarcade/

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
allow me to explain my reasoning. hybrid cards were annoying as none of them were any good, and as a player i like to gear my mind as a standard machine i know every card legal in standard and when u play mana i start eliminating possible cards you may play, this makes it easier to process and beat most decks. you introduce cards that lie to you and i get brain cramps and it is very headacheish. i also do not like that the color pie is told to go f--- itself all day.

---

Demigod of Revenge
Kitchen Finks
Ashenmoor Gouger
Augury Adept
Boggart Ram-Gang
Fulminator Mage
Inkfathom Infiltrator
Manamorphose
Memory Plunder (EDH bomb, btw)
Mirrowweave
Mistmeadow Witch
Murderous Redcap
Oversoul of Dusk

just to name a few of the good ones; and many more beyond that.

quote:

---

cascade was bad because there was no skill involved, it was "i tap mana and oops i win" when ur opponent's best move was to scoop it up and try again next game. infect requires some skill, not much but some.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
unintentional, staggering flamebait

---

1) Effective communication skills, learn 'em, live 'em, love 'em.
2) Yes, you will get flamed, and you will most probably also get karma smacked for your use of inappropriate language. Was it worth it?
3) Let me get this straight, you're complaining about how a new mechanic would make it difficult for you to play effectively in a format you no longer play in? What, so wizards is supposed to cater to your needs even when you're not a paying customer? The sense of entitlement is flabbergasting.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
stuff

---

There is no reason to get upset about a new set when only 24 cards have been spoiled. Wait till they spoiled a new counter spell that can be paid with phyrexian mana, then you can bitch all you want.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

1.Magic has to basically re-invent itself every year with some new mechanic. Some are obviously better than others(Cascade is more powerful than Phasing). Magic MUST do this though bc if it does not it will stay yhe same. It will get stagnent and that would lead to the game dying off.

2.There is a power curve. Sometimes it will go up, sometimes it will go down. If you want WOTC to keep making 4th edition every set again, it will eventually lead to their demise. New cards have to be added with each set...some are VERY powerful, some are balanced, and some are Moonlace.

3.Not playing standard bc JTMS is too expensive, or you don't want to beat someone without them bc you feel like it's a bad win is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. First off JTMS can be beat, the decks it is in can be beat. Yes, the card is roughly $80 a piece, welcome to inflation/economics 101. Ten years ago if they had mythics in Invasion block Urza's Rage, Undermine and Absorb would have been $50 each if the roles were reversed. I can remember when all those cards were $20+ each. That was over a decade ago. If the current set in 2011 was Mercadian Masques Rishardan Port would be over $50. Remember $20 Spirit Mongers? $20 Vindicates? $25 Call of the Herd? $30 Arcbound Ravagers? Every set has cards that end up being the gems of the set and command a high price. You have to look at it as an economic point of view, price for Magic cards/packs have gone up...hence the prices for cards that are REALLY good and everyone wants will also go up. Mythic really does not inflate the price as much as it devalues the price for non-mythic cards. Each set has what? 8-10 mythics? that breaks down to one specific mythic per box and a half? That's about the same odds for cards like Lin-Sivvi, Rishardan Port, Call of the Herd, etc etc back in oler sets. Did you bitch 10 years ago when you had to pay $100 for a playset of Lin-Sivvi's? It's the same thing as Jace now.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
allow me to explain my reasoning. hybrid cards were annoying as none of them were any good, blah blah blah blah blah

---

Silly me, I guess only idiots ever thought Firespout, Kitchen Finks or Figure of Destiny weren't bottom of the barrel cards.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
what the heck is wapner??

---