quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
WHO CARES. It's lynch or lose for crying out loud, this is not time to do IIoA on a completely moot point. Do some scumhunting. I'm going to go do a read on you and see if this has been your play the entire game.

If I had the power to lynch someone right now, and I had 5 minutes to do it, you would be my choice.

Edit: thror, this applies to you too. In fact, I think everybody should post their top two suspects WITH analysis to support each pick ASAP. If you do not do this, you are probably scum trying to hide. We need to know where people stand on the issues.

---

This seems to be another aggressive play here. Why do you want people to post their suspects. I mean I don't have a problem naming you like I have during the game.

Are you looking for a way to turn people against one another. Manipulate their suspects against one another. It's real convenient that Fwybwed bit the bullet last round. I guess that leaves only one person to suspect you.

Let's see: Xplicitr, Fwybwed, Bugger

Hmm all ended up dead. I feel like you have done enough manipulating this game.

Voting AGM

__________________
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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
This seems to be another aggressive play here. Why do you want people to post their suspects. I mean I don't have a problem naming you like I have during the game.

Are you looking for a way to turn people against one another. Manipulate their suspects against one another. It's real convenient that Fwybwed bit the bullet last round. I guess that leaves only one person to suspect you.

Let's see: Xplicitr, Fwybwed, Bugger

Hmm all ended up dead. I feel like you have done enough manipulating this game.

Voting AGM

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Interesting thought: You say we shoudn't name suspects. Then your entire attack on me is predicated on the fact that those I suspected turned out to be town. If I followed your advice and didn't post suspicions, what evidence would you have against me?

None.

Mmmmmmmm...contradiction. Posting suspicions is KEY to playing the game. Otherwise, there is no way to scumhunt. Seriously, this is Mafia 101. If we all just shut up and vote, we're going to lose, especially this late in the game.

Also, your list isn't even good. Let's look:

XplicitR - Nightkilled
Fwybwed - Lynched, but I didn't vote for him.
Bugger - Nightkilled

Also, at he top of Page 9 you state you think Fwybwed is mafia yet u don't vote for him and vote for Bugger this round. What is that all about?

I thought you voted for Fwybwed, which according your post of scum hunting, if you think he is mafia why not vote for him?

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
Where do I say I don't think we should post suspects????

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
Why do you want people to post their suspects.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
So what if it's aggressive? You are still posting IIoA. You clearly have time to POST, because this is your second one this round, but there's no scumhunting - we don't know who your suspects are.

Your defense is ad hominim. I don't care how bad my track record is - it doesn't excuse your actions.

@nder - I agree with your analysis on Montague and OGB.

---

How is my defense ad hominim? If you don't trust your own anaylsis, how do you expect others to?

And please refresh my memory - how have ANY of your posts been helpful this round? Let's break them down, shall we?

quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
Dear Mafia,
Please put me out of my misery. I can't tell one person from another anymore.

Sincerely,

AlmasterGM

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This coming right after you posted that voting for yourself is NEVER correct. How is asking for a NK any different?

quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
Maybe the Mafia want to coexist with us peacefully and we can all live happily ever after

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Cute.

quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
WCFmo and Zak make this game hard to evaluate because they were such big wagons. I'm not going to lie - that play by WCFmo was brilliant. I know there's a bus going on in there somewhere, but so many people jumped on the wagon that I have no clue who it is. My gut tells me Jaz because 1) it was her quote that started the play and 2) she commits to the bandwagon later, after it has already been made crystal clear WCFmo's play was going to work. However, I have already been wrong about five people in this game, so I don't really trust my own analysis.
I am used to reading certain tells that simply do not apply here at all. ::headache:: I don't know what to think.

---

Another helpful post. Talking about 2 dead players, and incriminating a third. Of course, this whole post is rendered a moot point based on your own confession that you don't trust your own analysis and are confused as can be.

Then you post pot shots at the two people who post directly after you. Seems like an accusation of opportunity.

__________________
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek:
Also, at he top of Page 9 you state you think Fwybwed is mafia yet u don't vote for him and vote for Bugger this round. What is that all about?

I thought you voted for Fwybwed, which according your post of scum hunting, if you think he is mafia why not vote for him?

---

Bugger self-voted and was doing other scummy things. He literally asked to die. I suspected fwy as well, but I could only put down one vote, so I did so on Bugger.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
How is my defense ad hominim? If you don't trust your own anaylsis, how do you expect others to?

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Read this. Your defense clearly falls into the trap. Just because I am not confident about my scumdar does not excusethe fact that your post was certifiably scummy and bad for the town. Interestingly enough, you are still doing nothing except playing OMGUS. Like nder said, more analysis, less wordplay.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
And please refresh my memory - how have ANY of your posts been helpful this round? Let's break them down, shall we?

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Analysis fail. The first two are from before the mafia kill even came in. The third floats a legitimate suspicion of Jaz. And then you leave out the rest of my posts ... awesome.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
Then you post pot shots at the two people who post directly after you. Seems like an accusation of opportunity.

---

And you accuse the first person who accuses you, which reeks of OMGUS. Face it: your posts were bad IIoA, and they mostly still are. If I didn't call you out on them, we'd still be sitting dead in the water. You can say I'm being annoying and aggressive, but at least it is taking us somewhere, unlike you and thror were doing earlier.

Suspicion medium, but unfortunately, I dont know if we can afford to lynch you this late in the game, just to find out you were a cit. So you stick us in a no-win situation.

My top 2 suspects are still Montague and Thanos.

Montague's overall behavior this whole game has had me suspiciuos of him. I can't point to specific posts but throughout the game they havent lined up imo. Probably voting Montague again.

Thanos has apparently just been thanos. I dont even remember a post by thanos. Nothing against thanos, but he's sat in the shadows a lot this game. (@AGM - what happened to lynch all lurkers, btw?)

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
AGM - You have been abbraisive, accusatory, all over the place, and generally behaving like a bad guy the since the start. By 'bad guy' i dont mean mafia, but you certainly arent making any friends/allies. If you're a cit, this behavior is bad because it makes us distrust you and probably gets you lynched. The same is true if you were mafia. So whatever draws you to this strategy should probably be re-thought.

---

Wrong. Only the mafia need allies. As a citizen, you shouldn't need allies unless you are trying to push an agenda without evidence (which is something you should never be doing anyway).

I agree that my strategy causes my political capital to deplete quickly and makes me look suspicious. That is the price associated with this strategy. There is a good edge to the sword, however - you know exactly where I have stood throughout the game, and you can suspect me accordingly. We cannot say the same for half the other people in this game.

(@AGM - what happened to lynch all lurkers, btw?)

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Honestly, I think this is the round I need to die.

If you kill me you remove the entire senerio above and you will have one shot at getting mafia. at that point 1/3 of the players will be mafia, so as long as you can overcome the 2 votes the mafia will place on a citizen, then you have a good chance of nabbing one.

At this point, I have no read or idea on who is mafia. This game kinda went to crap, which I take a lot of blame for not being vocal, but without anybody talking and with the WCF and Zak kills pretty much giving us no information I doubt anybody has a great read.

I'm inclined to think Bernek or Thanos are mafia. Maybe one maybe both, but I am thinking that one of those are for sure mafia.

I don't think that nder is mafia. It would be completely ridiculous and I would lose a TON of respect for MM if he backed out of a game where he was mafia, so at this point I am pretty sure that nder is a cit.

I wouldnt put it past Jaz to be mafia. For some reason this game for Jaz reminded me of the game where I was killed first. People brought up the scuffle me and Jaz had the game before, and nobody thought she would have pulled that move. But she did.

OGB hasnt really added anything, but that isnt necessarily damning for him. Nobody really has that is alive.

AGM I really don't know. I was originally going to say that this was the round he needed to die, but I decided that it would be better for me to die. He has been very eager the entire game, but I never really picked up anything about him that makes him scum, which is why he is probally scum.

Thror I feel like jumped onto my bandwagon with Xpr and Bugger and never really wanted to jump off. So far everybody who has died and thought I was mafia turned out to be cits, so who knows.

Sorry I don't have anything more to add. I might post tomorrow before the lynch if I get a chance, but I hope you guys see my point of view and vote for me.

Even though I am making myself look like a hyprocrite for doing this, I feel it is the right move.

__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!

All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

It. Is. NEVER. Acceptable. To. Self. Vote. Ever. Under ANY circumstances WHATSOEVER. I don't care what your logic is. It is wrong.

quote:

---

Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
People need to stop thinking that sacrificing yourself is pro-town. Allow me to educate you:

It. Is. NEVER. Acceptable. To. Self. Vote. Ever. Under ANY circumstances WHATSOEVER. I don't care what your logic is. It is wrong.

End of story.

---

I already explained why this needs to be done. I use to think the same thing, but basically if I live past this round and we DON'T get a mafia this round then the cits lose. period.

Yeah, I know nder. Sorry. But basically it is put your backs against the wall or give the game to mafia. I guarantee you that if I am around the last round that I will not be able to talk myself out of the noose.

Bernek: I still think he's mafia, for the reasons I stated before. I also find his "Why do you want to post suspects" line a bit odd, even after he clarified it. It just makes no sense to me, of COURSE people want others to post their suspicions. Also, accusing AGM of manipulating the game, which to ME means manipulating the cits to vote where he wants, is ridiculous for the reasons that AGM stated already.

Monty: I STILL think that he's suspicious. Even after that nice speech. I think he's more than capable of arranging a "sacrifice play".

AGM: You are not helping the town by acting the way you are acting and you KNOW it. WHAT is up with you these last two games? You didn't used to act this way.

MM/Nder: I agree with Monty that MM asking to be replaced probably means nder is a cit.

Thanos: Typical Thanos. Not posting anything useful, practically not posting at all.

OGB: I got nothing from him. I don't think he's mafia. Although a point to note, if AGM turns out to be mafia, I would revisit this. I don't like the "Especially considering you and I haven't so much as spoken to or about each other this entire game." line. If AGM is mafia, it looks like OGB is trying to distance himself from him.

Thror: Not posting anything really useful: "Suspect Monty, but I don't know why" "Suspect Thanos, for acting like he always does and I don't know why" And then asks about lynching all lurkers, trying to sway the vote towards Thanos. Does not look good to me.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Montague:
I already explained why this needs to be done. I use to think the same thing, but basically if I live past this round and we DON'T get a mafia this round then the cits lose. period.

---

The problem with this logic is that if you're a Cit and off yourself, we're in exactly the same situation, just it's this round that we MUST nab a Mafia, not the other way around. Either way, we have precisely the odds and chances, IF you make the fallacious assumption that you are necessarily going to be lynched. In reality, you're actually making the chances even worse, as without committing hari-kari, there's a chance you won't be voted off at all.

Granted, all of this applies if and only if you're a Cit.

__________________
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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

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I think you can understand what I meant to say if you can get through my jumbled mess, but I'll correct it all anyway.

I meant to say that the round we must nab Mafia was NEXT round if he offed himself, not this one, obviously, and that we must hit a Mafia this round if we go along with Monty's theory that he's going to die next. Also should have had "precisely the same" odds and chances. Just didn't want to do any edits or delete and reposts, since I really dislike those in Mafia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
My analysis:

Bernek: I still think he's mafia, for the reasons I stated before. I also find his "Why do you want to post suspects" line a bit odd, even after he clarified it. It just makes no sense to me, of COURSE people want others to post their suspicions. Also, accusing AGM of manipulating the game, which to ME means manipulating the cits to vote where he wants, is ridiculous for the reasons that AGM stated already.

Monty: I STILL think that he's suspicious. Even after that nice speech. I think he's more than capable of arranging a "sacrifice play".

AGM: You are not helping the town by acting the way you are acting and you KNOW it. WHAT is up with you these last two games? You didn't used to act this way.

MM/Nder: I agree with Monty that MM asking to be replaced probably means nder is a cit.

Thanos: Typical Thanos. Not posting anything useful, practically not posting at all.

OGB: I got nothing from him. I don't think he's mafia. Although a point to note, if AGM turns out to be mafia, I would revisit this. I don't like the "Especially considering you and I haven't so much as spoken to or about each other this entire game." line. If AGM is mafia, it looks like OGB is trying to distance himself from him.

Thror: Not posting anything really useful: "Suspect Monty, but I don't know why" "Suspect Thanos, for acting like he always does and I don't know why" And then asks about lynching all lurkers, trying to sway the vote towards Thanos. Does not look good to me.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

Thanks for the list. I can more or less agree with most of those. I'm a little worried that there seem to be a couple "if A is Mafia, than B" scenarios, as this late in the game that really narrows our options, but we'll have to deal with that if and when it comes.

__________________
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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

Report rules violations.

Montague, I don't care how bad you think my mafia skills are - at least I'm not trying to get myself killed based on some delusional notion that it will help the town when it will do no such thing. You are 100% wrong here.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
AGM: You are not helping the town by acting the way you are acting and you KNOW it. WHAT is up with you these last two games? You didn't used to act this way.

---

I've been town the last two games - I used to always be either mafia or a town powerrole. I don't understand why you think I am being unhelpful - your statement to this effect is a mere assertion. What exactly about my play is unhelpful and why? What modifications would make it better? How does my play compare to a player who you do consider to be protown?

This accusation has been brought up time and time again. The reason it continues to perpetuate is because nobody will ever resolve it with a detailed explanation. This is good for the mafia - they like when an intangible dislike of a player floats around, and that player can't effectively respond to it. So let's talk about this now.

I'm most interested to hear what you have to say in your own words in response to my questions above, but for the moment, here is my take on things.

Let's look at what some of the dead protown players have accomplished:

PlasteredDragon - Suspected Gawain, self voted. We have never gone back and evaluated his posts from D1. Did he help the town?
Zakman86 - He expressed himself logically and cohesively. He made some arguments that were absolutely brilliant. This got him lynched. We never went back and evaluated what he said when he was alive. Did he help the town?
XplicitR - Hid in the shadows, suspected only Montague and myself. We are going after Montague now, but it definitely isn't because XplicitR said to. He clearly accomplished very little during his time alive. Did he help the town?
Bugger - Did Bugger ever lead us to mafia? Did he give us heaps of data to sort through? Did he help the town?

We generally consider these players to be protown. But when we look at what they have accomplished and how we treated them in death and life, we don't see anything special. Now, I'm not claiming to have accomplished much - I've been wrong on several occasions, and it's possible I will be wrong again. However, PD, Bugger, XplicitR, and Zak were wrong at different points of the game too. They weren't as blunt as me, but that didn't mean anyone listened to their posts - to the contrary, we have never gone back and taken what they said to heart. It seems to me that this "AGM sucks" argument is based on nothing more on preconceived notions of who is protown and who is not. This is a common psychological phenomenon, so I'm not surprised it exists - but that doesn't make it a good thing.

Get them in.

Voting Bernek

We'll see how it goes.

quote:

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Originally posted by Montague:
If people have such a problem with me trying to help.

Voting Bernek

We'll see how it goes.

Edit: Out of town. Won't be posting today. Good luck.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
I'm voting Montague.

Montague, I don't care how bad you think my mafia skills are - at least I'm not trying to get myself killed based on some delusional notion that it will help the town when it will do no such thing. You are 100% wrong here.

---

AGM, if you're looking for reasons why people think you're not playing pro-town, this is a shining example.

If you're 100% convinced that his death won't help the town, why on earth would you vote for him? Doesn't that make your own actions 100% wrong as well?

I'm really whether to vote for Monty or not, but that's only because I'm not at all sure if he's pulling a Mafia stunt or not. You seem convinced he's a Cit, which means voting for him is voting against the town.

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All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please!

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