quote:

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Originally posted by Montague:
So why do you consider yourself one of the strongest players again?

You must really be high on yourself because from my point of view your posts are all well thought out, but you havent helped up nab any mafia. Wait, this reminds me of something.... Oh, that's how I play when I'm mafia

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Because there's hardly anyone posting anything of real substance other than trying to dissect my posts assuming there's something in them?

I do think it's ironic that you say that I haven't helped nab any Mafia when I was the person who immediately pointed out at the beginning of R2 how suspicious WCFMo's bandwagon jumping was, and everyone jumped on it once you started posting finally.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:

@XPR: The confirmed citizen has no more insight as to who's Mafia or who's a Cit than anyone else. Why would it be idiotic to use the confirmed citizen and lead him a different direction than you want him to go, especially with no cop or doctor alive? There's no possibility of getting scryed...

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Because this is a game of information and control. For the mafia, a confirmed cit is a "dead" slot, because it's one more obstacle that now cannot be removed by lynching- to eliminate a confirmed cit the mafia must use their night kill. Furthermore, it works towards leveling the playing field in terms of who knows who is what- the mafia know exactly who is one of them and who is a citizen. The citizens know only their own role. It is in the mafia's interests to keep it that way. Anything else gives the cits an advantage.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:

@XPR: The confirmed citizen has no more insight as to who's Mafia or who's a Cit than anyone else. Why would it be idiotic to use the confirmed citizen and lead him a different direction than you want him to go, especially with no cop or doctor alive? There's no possibility of getting scryed...

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MY suspicion of Zakman is now through the roof.

It's a bit baffling to me that, for a supposed first timer, he can make such salient points and have some well thought out analysis as to the mafia's behavior last round, yet fail to grasp the concept of mafia killing known cits.

Also, the wording of this post is strange to me. I'm not sure I know who you are referring to when you say "him". Can you please explain?

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
MY suspicion of Zakman is now through the roof.

It's a bit baffling to me that, for a supposed first timer, he can make such salient points and have some well thought out analysis as to the mafia's behavior last round, yet fail to grasp the concept of mafia killing known cits.

Also, the wording of this post is strange to me. I'm not sure I know who you are referring to when you say "him". Can you please explain?

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Him meaning the confirmed citizen.

I think we're all differing on our game theory here. You're saying it's a disadvantage to have a confirmed cit. I'm saying a good Mafia player can make it an advantage with enough trickery to lead the Confirmed Cit towards lynching other Cits until the time that they find him no longer useful and then nightkill him.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Him meaning the confirmed citizen.

I think we're all differing on our game theory here. You're saying it's a disadvantage to have a confirmed cit. I'm saying a good Mafia player can make it an advantage with enough trickery to lead the Confirmed Cit towards lynching other Cits until the time that they find him no longer useful and then nightkill him.

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This still doesn't make sense. You say you would have 1 or 2 of your Mafia cronies bandwagon with the Confirmed Cit (CC) to start eliminating players, but that only works if the CC doesn't suspcet Mafia. And by keeping the CC around, the chances of that are by categorically less.

Edit - Also, how is bandwagonning any good for the Mafia when that's precisely the reason that WCFmo got lynched last round?

I never said that having a CC around was disadvantageous. It's only disadvantageous if you're Mafia - a point that you seem intent on disputing.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
This still doesn't make sense. You say you would have 1 or 2 of your Mafia cronies bandwagon with the Confirmed Cit (CC) to start eliminating players, but that only works if the CC doesn't suspcet Mafia. And by keeping the CC around, the chances of that are by categorically less.

Edit - Also, how is bandwagonning any good for the Mafia when that's precisely the reason that WCFmo got lynched last round?

I never said that having a CC around was disadvantageous. It's only disadvantageous if you're Mafia - a point that you seem intent on disputing.

Zak, I get the feeling that you're trying to conjure up some sort of pro-town sentiment that flies in the face of reason. There also seems to be some subtle deflection going on here.

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WCFMo got suspected at first because he bandwagonned to "save his own hide" at the end of R1 when he didn't need to, then went crazy when he got enough votes on him to lynch. Bandwagoning can be a valid strategy if it's used right. Regardless, in this case it doesn't matter because the confirmed citizen is gone.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Voting Montague, suspicion list still the same as last post.

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Posted before WCFmo went crazy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
I have my eye on WCFMo, but I don't feel like he's being coached. I just feel that his play is very inconsistent.

Regardless of whether AGM and Bugger are mafia or cit, I don't think voting for either one of them at this time is a great idea. We need their input too much as a town.

I'm switching my vote. To whom, I'm not revealing. I have my reasons behind it. I'll explain it all at the end of the game.

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R2 vote - Zakman votes for AlmasterGM.

Posted today:

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
You're correct: I'm as suspicious as thror or XPR based on my votes. To be quite frank, my voting plan last round got shredded by WCFMo going crazy. I still plan on revealing what I was thinking at the end of the game regarding that.

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How exactly did your voting plan get shredded? You didn't vote for the most obvious person last round, who turned out to be Mafia, and you DID vote for someone you claimed you wouldn't. And to top it all off, apparently it's part of some grand scheme that isn't at liberty to be shared with anyone else.

Given the way you've played this game, I don't see how anybody could think you're "above board", to use your own words.

Voting Zakman86.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
Edit - Please explain this. Why would you vote AGM last round without giving any reason and then omit him from your suspect list this round?

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Because my original plan was to vote MW before WCFMo went crazy and I needed to find someone who I knew wouldn't have votes on them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Because my original plan was to vote MW before WCFMo went crazy and I needed to find someone who I knew wouldn't have votes on them.

Simply put: A Mafia member would have been crazy to vote MW, knowing that he's a confirmed cit. It's called leaving a tell.

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WHAT!!!!! How easy is it to say this after as soon as WCFmo did it, it went to his demise. He was mafia. Again why wouldn't a mafia member do this?

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
I do not like the fact that you did not declare yet you change your vote both rounds and not to either suspect.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
WHAT!!!!! How easy is it to say this after as soon as WCFmo did it, it went to his demise. He was mafia. Again why wouldn't a mafia member do this?

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WCF KNEW he was gone and didn't want to give the town any more information.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
WCF KNEW he was gone and didn't want to give the town any more information.

This falls back on the theory that was in that entire post. Re-read it.

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I fail to see your reason for voting for Masterwolf. That is in no way helpful to try and find Mafia.

O and I am not grasping at straws.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Because my original plan was to vote MW before WCFMo went crazy and I needed to find someone who I knew wouldn't have votes on them.

Simply put: A Mafia member would have been crazy to vote MW, knowing that he's a confirmed cit. It's called leaving a tell.

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So you wanted to vote for someone who you don't suspect at all? How is that productive? This is the type of random vote-hopping that got WCFmo lynched.

quote:

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Originally posted by Montague:
Zak: ... I think you need to re-evaluate your game plan.

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You're probably more correct on this point than you realize.

why would you do that again?

quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
You're probably more correct on this point than you realize.

Basic thinking: "Wasting" a vote is subjective. We already knew that WCFMo was leaving the game. I presumed a sane Mafia member wouldn't vote for MW because either he would be a NK Target or they would use him as a pawn and that other people would see the same thing. Obviously WCFMo wasn't sane, and to keep that vote would have implicated me as Mafia due to the circumstances, thus the switch. Unfortunately, I contradicted myself during the switch trying to find someone who I knew wouldn't have votes on them. Mea culpa.

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I think you've contradicted yourself more than you realize. You said before that you didn't think MW would be the nightkill and now you say you did think that - which is it?

quote:

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Originally posted by Montague:
I'm waiting for you to get to the part where you vote for MW.

why would you do that again?

Edit: spelling

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Because I hoped people would realize that a Mafia member wouldn't vote for a Confirmed Cit if they were going to MK him; they also wouldn't want him to die if they were going to use him as a pawn.

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But a mafia member did and thats what lynched him?!?!?!?

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

I am extremely interested to see what Bugger has to say about Zaks little gameplan here.

Right now, I don't see any reason to not vote Zak this round. Either A) he is mafia which is good for us, or B) he isnt, we don't have to deal with his little "private gameplans" and ego, and we get to evaluate all of the data he left us whether he is a cit or Mafia, which is all good for us.

quote:

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Originally posted by Thanos:
Anyone else think there's a chance that two mafia members act crazy for the third to hid in the madness for the win?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Getting 2 hours of sleep generally does this to me. I posted my vote analysis when I was still awake from caffeine. Right now, it's not there. I'm done posting for the day; hopefully tomorrow I can post something more coherent and this will make more sense to everyone.

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As Zakman goes and rethinks his strategy.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

1) Up to this point, he has offered insightful, meaningful posts. He is certainly not the weakest player in this game. His ego might have gone a little far, but don't pretend that he isn't intelligent.

2) I think I understand why MW was NK'd this round. I agree with Zak, however, that having a confirmed cit around can be useful to the mafia. Unless the CC is closing in on them, the mafia can let the CC live long enough to hopefully send the other cits down a wrong track or 2. CC's don't have any more insight than the rest of us, and are incorrect in their scumhunt more often than not.