quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
A bad glorious anthem that can't be destroyed or removed in any way, and stacks with itself as many times as you can make it happen? Better than just a glorious anthem by any standard.

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If I am running a token deck, I would rather pay 1W and run Honor of the Pure or Intangible Virtue, which enlarge all my token's butt, than splash black and pay 4 mana for half of an Anthem effect.

Sorin's main problem is, it suffers an identity crisis.

In a token deck, is it really worthwhile to splash black just to run Sorin, instead of playing G/W Township, or U/W Moorland Haunt, which both have a much better mana base than B/W? There are also better option to pump all your tokens, so is it really worth it to play Sorin for the half ass Anthem effect? The token generating is good for a non token deck, but it is definitely a tier below Hero of Bladehold and Elspeth Tirel, and I would run more of those before I would play a Sorin.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

That's just wrong

quote:

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Originally posted by Jtrade77:

Also, Gralf's Cage seems good against dredge.

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Yeah, and against Burning Vengeance Games 2 and 3...(this is, if it becomes a big archetype)

With Mayor of Avabruck, Immerwolf, Huntmaster of the Fells, and various other werewolves (Waif, Ironsmith), Wolfbitten Captive, Scorned Villager, I'm extremely tempted to get rid of my G/W Humans (which is getting seriously hated in Dark Ascension) and play G/R Werewolves.
Throw in some Daybreak Rangers, Brimstone Volleys, Devil's Play, Full Moon's Rise, and Kruin Outlaw, and I think I have a deck!

quote:

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Originally posted by Th3Sparkl3r:
Never has a card ruined my anticipation of an entire set's mechanics as grafdiggers cage did when it was spoiled tonight. If it was 4-6cmc I wouldn't be bothered, but 1???? If they attached the ability to a creature, then maybe...but as it stands I'm extremely disappointed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Devonin:
A bad glorious anthem that can't be destroyed or removed in any way, and stacks with itself as many times as you can make it happen? Better than just a glorious anthem by any standard.

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You under value how much importance the +1 to the backside accounts for. Like Also, like Junichi said, if you are going to run some sort of token deck wouldn't you just rather play Intangible Virtue, or Gavony Township instead?

quote:

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
[B]Predator Ooze
GGG
Creature - Ooze
Predator Ooze is indestructible.
Whenever Predator Ooze attacks, put a +1/+1
counter on it.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Predator
Ooze this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on
Predator Ooze
1/1

That's just wrong

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This Ooze is a killer.

OK, GGG is a steep cmc but the again, it's easy to accelerate this in speed-green and boom, once he hits the field it's Over !

And it's a rare? I'm preordering a playset as soon as I see one on Ebay.

How about a G/W deck with this bad boy, some stuff to accelrate and then Day of Judgement plus some white control? Juicy...

quote:

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Originally posted by Jtrade77:
Also, Gralf's Cage seems good against dredge.

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Just dredge? Let me sday this right now. Cage will be the most important card for Vintage in the past 5 years. It shuts off EVERYTHING!

For starters:
Yawgmoth's Will - Can't play cards in the graveyard.
Snapcaster Mage - Same thing.
Dredge - Pretty obvious.
Oath of Druids - Can't get the creature from your library.
Tinker/Blightsteel - Same as above.

The only two decks that the card does nothing against is Shops/Stax and Noble Fish (Bant).

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Just dredge? Let me sday this right now. Cage will be the most important card for Vintage in the past 5 years. It shuts off EVERYTHING!

For starters:
Yawgmoth's Will - Can't play cards in the graveyard.
Snapcaster Mage - Same thing.
Dredge - Pretty obvious.
Oath of Druids - Can't get the creature from your library.
Tinker/Blightsteel - Same as above.

The only two decks that the card does nothing against is Shops/Stax and Noble Fish (Bant).

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Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
Goblin Welder
Survival of the Fittest (Edit: well, Vengevine is what I mean)
Fetchland-->Dryad Arbor
Reanimate
Exhume
Unearth
Animate Dead
etc.
Cards with Persist
Cards with Undying
...

It's pretty amazing. Unfortunately.

Also, I agree on the Ooze. Being indestructible makes it very interesting and worth keeping around for a bit. I pre-ordered some at four bucks each, which I think is definitely worth the risk.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

quote:

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
Goblin Welder
Survival of the Fittest
Fetchland-->Dryad Arbor
Reanimate
Exhume
Unearth
Animate Dead
etc.
Cards with Persist
Cards with Undying
...

It's pretty amazing. Unfortunately.

---

Of all those, only Welder and Exhume see play in Vintage and it is very, very little.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Of all those, only Welder and Exhume see play in Vintage and it is very, very little.

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Should have been clearer: I wasn't talking about Vintage necessarily. Just cards that are shut down by it more generally, many of which see play elsewhere. In fact, pretty much everything on that list sees quite a bit of play in Legacy, meaning that it will have a huge impact there, too.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

Edit: saw your edit, Goas. As a strategy, yes, Survival takes some collateral damage from the Cage. The functionality of the actual card, however, remains unchanged.
__________________
2010 Homer Simpson Award Winner

quote:

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Originally posted by caquaa:
uhm... why? Seems like a trash sideboard card. They pop up all the time and usually do little. Seems like an even more narrow pithing needle. Might be neat in EDH to stop reanimate/bribery and maybe some other things.

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i would call this card more powerful than pithing needle. it shuts down so many decks that some people touched on above plus some of the modern targets would be:
past in flames
birthing pod
any card with flashback
snapcaster mage (yes we need to say it again)
summoning trap
cards with unearth

pretty overpowered imo

quote:

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Originally posted by kirkusjones:
Looks like I won't be playing manaless dredge any time soon.

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Play mana+ dredge. Run Abolish, Crash, Crush, Mogg Salvage, Oxidize, Sundering Vitae, etc. in the Board.

quote:

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

Also, I agree on the Ooze. Being indestructible makes it very interesting and worth keeping around for a bit. I pre-ordered some at four bucks each, which I think is definitely worth the risk.

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And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.

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quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
Despite the nice ability and indestructible, GGG makes it pretty unplayable, other than a maybe in G/r Wolf Run, which isn't even running a full set of Dungrove Elder, whom is better than the ooze.

And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.

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How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Care4Cards:
How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.

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Relying on birds/elves to get you the early GGG in a G/X deck is not the best strategy, and it is on the same level as Phylactery Lich where you need to have A to cast B, which we all know how well he performed after the initial reaction from people that "HE IS BROKEN!!!"

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Care4Cards:
How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.

---

[/QUOTE]

Hum, I agree with the red independent thing but the Ooze is not inefficient if not 'enlarged' with +1+1, he's still a great blocker for most of what your opponents throws at you.

If cast early, he's a beast. If cast late, he can stale the game a bit until you set yourself up better.

Either way, he's serviceable.

What if you center your deck around strong defence/stalling, the ooze, days of judgment, etc. In standard, it hold up against most deck I believe and if you introduce a Sun Titan in the mix, you can find a way to cast the Ooze from your graveyard (this could be tasty)

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
Despite the nice ability and indestructible, GGG makes it pretty unplayable, other than a maybe in G/r Wolf Run, which isn't even running a full set of Dungrove Elder, whom is better than the ooze.

And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.

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I agree it probably won't go up much beyond the 2-4 it's at now. That's fine. It's quite easy to cast, however; T1 Dual, Hierarch, T2 fetch + cast. Obviously, that depends on the format under discussion. But I could see it hanging around Legacy and increasing threat density while improving the late-game. It's a threat that needs to be answered, and quickly; that's good enough to justify a copy or two in at least some decks. Your opponent, after all, can only run so many StPs. I wouldn't run more than a couple, but I'm definitely going to be testing it out in a few decks.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari