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Author Topic:   Dark Ascension Spoilers/Presumptions
junichi
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posted January 16, 2012 05:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
A bad glorious anthem that can't be destroyed or removed in any way, and stacks with itself as many times as you can make it happen? Better than just a glorious anthem by any standard.

If I am running a token deck, I would rather pay 1W and run Honor of the Pure or Intangible Virtue, which enlarge all my token's butt, than splash black and pay 4 mana for half of an Anthem effect.

Sorin's main problem is, it suffers an identity crisis.

In a token deck, is it really worthwhile to splash black just to run Sorin, instead of playing G/W Township, or U/W Moorland Haunt, which both have a much better mana base than B/W? There are also better option to pump all your tokens, so is it really worth it to play Sorin for the half ass Anthem effect? The token generating is good for a non token deck, but it is definitely a tier below Hero of Bladehold and Elspeth Tirel, and I would run more of those before I would play a Sorin.

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skizzikmonger
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posted January 16, 2012 09:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Predator Ooze
GGG
Creature - Ooze
Predator Ooze is indestructible.
Whenever Predator Ooze attacks, put a +1/+1
counter on it.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Predator
Ooze this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on
Predator Ooze
1/1

That's just wrong


Hellrider
2RR
Creature - Devil
Haste
Whenever a creature you control attacks,
Hellrider deals 1 damage to defending player.
3/3

[Edited 1 times, lastly by skizzikmonger on January 16, 2012]

 
Jtrade77
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posted January 16, 2012 09:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jtrade77 Send a private message to Jtrade77 Click to send Jtrade77 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So happy that ooze isn't mythic. I'll be getting a playset off eBay for like $4 in a month or so.

Also, Gralf's Cage seems good against dredge.

 
Havoc Demon
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posted January 16, 2012 10:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Havoc Demon Click Here to Email Havoc Demon Send a private message to Havoc Demon Click to send Havoc Demon an Instant MessageVisit Havoc Demon's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cage seems like a good way to hose Bribery in EDH too.
 
ryan2754
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posted January 16, 2012 10:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Jtrade77:

Also, Gralf's Cage seems good against dredge.


Yeah, and against Burning Vengeance Games 2 and 3...(this is, if it becomes a big archetype)


With Mayor of Avabruck, Immerwolf, Huntmaster of the Fells, and various other werewolves (Waif, Ironsmith), Wolfbitten Captive, Scorned Villager, I'm extremely tempted to get rid of my G/W Humans (which is getting seriously hated in Dark Ascension) and play G/R Werewolves.
Throw in some Daybreak Rangers, Brimstone Volleys, Devil's Play, Full Moon's Rise, and Kruin Outlaw, and I think I have a deck!

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Th3Sparkl3r
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posted January 16, 2012 11:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Th3Sparkl3r Click Here to Email Th3Sparkl3r Send a private message to Th3Sparkl3r Click to send Th3Sparkl3r an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Th3Sparkl3r's Have/Want ListView Th3Sparkl3r's Have/Want List
Never has a card ruined my anticipation of an entire set's mechanics as grafdiggers cage did when it was spoiled tonight. If it was 4-6cmc I wouldn't be bothered, but 1???? If they attached the ability to a creature, then maybe...but as it stands I'm extremely disappointed.
 
caquaa
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posted January 16, 2012 11:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Th3Sparkl3r:
Never has a card ruined my anticipation of an entire set's mechanics as grafdiggers cage did when it was spoiled tonight. If it was 4-6cmc I wouldn't be bothered, but 1???? If they attached the ability to a creature, then maybe...but as it stands I'm extremely disappointed.

uhm... why? Seems like a trash sideboard card. They pop up all the time and usually do little. Seems like an even more narrow pithing needle. Might be neat in EDH to stop reanimate/bribery and maybe some other things.

 
daner
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posted January 17, 2012 04:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
A bad glorious anthem that can't be destroyed or removed in any way, and stacks with itself as many times as you can make it happen? Better than just a glorious anthem by any standard.

You under value how much importance the +1 to the backside accounts for. Like Also, like Junichi said, if you are going to run some sort of token deck wouldn't you just rather play Intangible Virtue, or Gavony Township instead?

Making X/X's will always be better than making X/1's.

 
caquaa
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posted January 17, 2012 04:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
Dont rule out the possibility of W/G/b tokens. It could always have just a touch of sorin and his land. I'm not sure how good that land is, but it seems it could be kinda nice. Something certainly worth testing.
 
Care4Cards
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posted January 17, 2012 07:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Care4Cards Click Here to Email Care4Cards Send a private message to Care4Cards Click to send Care4Cards an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
[B]Predator Ooze
GGG
Creature - Ooze
Predator Ooze is indestructible.
Whenever Predator Ooze attacks, put a +1/+1
counter on it.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Predator
Ooze this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on
Predator Ooze
1/1

That's just wrong


This Ooze is a killer.

OK, GGG is a steep cmc but the again, it's easy to accelerate this in speed-green and boom, once he hits the field it's Over !


And it's a rare? I'm preordering a playset as soon as I see one on Ebay.

How about a G/W deck with this bad boy, some stuff to accelrate and then Day of Judgement plus some white control? Juicy...

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MAB_Rapper
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posted January 17, 2012 07:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MAB_Rapper Click Here to Email MAB_Rapper Send a private message to MAB_Rapper Click to send MAB_Rapper an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or SaleView MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Jtrade77:
Also, Gralf's Cage seems good against dredge.

Just dredge? Let me sday this right now. Cage will be the most important card for Vintage in the past 5 years. It shuts off EVERYTHING!

For starters:
Yawgmoth's Will - Can't play cards in the graveyard.
Snapcaster Mage - Same thing.
Dredge - Pretty obvious.
Oath of Druids - Can't get the creature from your library.
Tinker/Blightsteel - Same as above.

The only two decks that the card does nothing against is Shops/Stax and Noble Fish (Bant).

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Goaswerfraiejen
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posted January 17, 2012 07:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Just dredge? Let me sday this right now. Cage will be the most important card for Vintage in the past 5 years. It shuts off EVERYTHING!

For starters:
Yawgmoth's Will - Can't play cards in the graveyard.
Snapcaster Mage - Same thing.
Dredge - Pretty obvious.
Oath of Druids - Can't get the creature from your library.
Tinker/Blightsteel - Same as above.

The only two decks that the card does nothing against is Shops/Stax and Noble Fish (Bant).


Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
Goblin Welder
Survival of the Fittest (Edit: well, Vengevine is what I mean)
Fetchland-->Dryad Arbor
Reanimate
Exhume
Unearth
Animate Dead
etc.
Cards with Persist
Cards with Undying
...

It's pretty amazing. Unfortunately.

Also, I agree on the Ooze. Being indestructible makes it very interesting and worth keeping around for a bit. I pre-ordered some at four bucks each, which I think is definitely worth the risk.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Goaswerfraiejen on January 17, 2012]

 
MAB_Rapper
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posted January 17, 2012 07:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MAB_Rapper Click Here to Email MAB_Rapper Send a private message to MAB_Rapper Click to send MAB_Rapper an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or SaleView MAB_Rapper's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Green Sun's Zenith
Natural Order
Goblin Welder
Survival of the Fittest
Fetchland-->Dryad Arbor
Reanimate
Exhume
Unearth
Animate Dead
etc.
Cards with Persist
Cards with Undying
...

It's pretty amazing. Unfortunately.


Of all those, only Welder and Exhume see play in Vintage and it is very, very little.

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Goaswerfraiejen
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posted January 17, 2012 07:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Of all those, only Welder and Exhume see play in Vintage and it is very, very little.


Should have been clearer: I wasn't talking about Vintage necessarily. Just cards that are shut down by it more generally, many of which see play elsewhere. In fact, pretty much everything on that list sees quite a bit of play in Legacy, meaning that it will have a huge impact there, too.

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OGB
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posted January 17, 2012 07:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for OGB Click Here to Email OGB Send a private message to OGB Click to send OGB an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cage doesn't hose Survival.

Edit: saw your edit, Goas. As a strategy, yes, Survival takes some collateral damage from the Cage. The functionality of the actual card, however, remains unchanged.
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by OGB on January 17, 2012]

 
undersow
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posted January 17, 2012 08:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for undersow Click Here to Email undersow Send a private message to undersow Click to send undersow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View undersow's Have/Want ListView undersow's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
uhm... why? Seems like a trash sideboard card. They pop up all the time and usually do little. Seems like an even more narrow pithing needle. Might be neat in EDH to stop reanimate/bribery and maybe some other things.

i would call this card more powerful than pithing needle. it shuts down so many decks that some people touched on above plus some of the modern targets would be:
past in flames
birthing pod
any card with flashback
snapcaster mage (yes we need to say it again)
summoning trap
cards with unearth

pretty overpowered imo

 
kirkusjones
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posted January 17, 2012 09:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for kirkusjones Click Here to Email kirkusjones Send a private message to kirkusjones Click to send kirkusjones an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Looks like I won't be playing manaless dredge any time soon.
 
ryan2754
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posted January 17, 2012 10:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryan2754 Click Here to Email ryan2754 Send a private message to ryan2754 Click to send ryan2754 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryan2754's Have/Want ListView ryan2754's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by kirkusjones:
Looks like I won't be playing manaless dredge any time soon.

Play mana+ dredge. Run Abolish, Crash, Crush, Mogg Salvage, Oxidize, Sundering Vitae, etc. in the Board.

And doesn't Cabal Therapy take care of this card?

 
TimeBeing
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posted January 17, 2012 10:58 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

Also, I agree on the Ooze. Being indestructible makes it very interesting and worth keeping around for a bit. I pre-ordered some at four bucks each, which I think is definitely worth the risk.


Yeah i like I, will go well with dungrove elder deck. Pre-ordered them for 2$ off SCG, since they are pre-selling for 3-5$ on ebay.
 
junichi
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posted January 17, 2012 11:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
Despite the nice ability and indestructible, GGG makes it pretty unplayable, other than a maybe in G/r Wolf Run, which isn't even running a full set of Dungrove Elder, whom is better than the ooze.

And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.

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TimeBeing
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posted January 17, 2012 11:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.


I agree, just going into a green stompy deck. May not be t1 but will be fun to play. 2$ each isn't much to pay for a few rares, just surprised to see them pre-selling for 3-5 currently.
 
Care4Cards
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posted January 17, 2012 11:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Care4Cards Click Here to Email Care4Cards Send a private message to Care4Cards Click to send Care4Cards an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Despite the nice ability and indestructible, GGG makes it pretty unplayable, other than a maybe in G/r Wolf Run, which isn't even running a full set of Dungrove Elder, whom is better than the ooze.

And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.


How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.

 
junichi
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posted January 17, 2012 11:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Care4Cards:
How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.



Ball Lightning has haste and trample, and doesn't require a lot of turns to set up, so it is just as good to draw it on turn 7 instead of turn 3. It is also in red, which is a color with plenty of removals, and could get away with not splashing a second color to deal with opponent's creature.

Relying on birds/elves to get you the early GGG in a G/X deck is not the best strategy, and it is on the same level as Phylactery Lich where you need to have A to cast B, which we all know how well he performed after the initial reaction from people that "HE IS BROKEN!!!"

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Care4Cards
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posted January 17, 2012 12:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Care4Cards Click Here to Email Care4Cards Send a private message to Care4Cards Click to send Care4Cards an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Care4Cards:
How about G/W with Birds of paradise and some elves, the G/W land that puls +1+1 counters, etc. There's something there (I'll work on it)

GGG is really easy to pull of, more so than UUU or WWW for example.

Back in the days, Ball Lightning was a staple at RRR and this ooze, being indestructible, could become a real buzzkill for most of the field facing it.



Ball Lightning has haste and trample, and doesn't require a lot of turns to set up, so it is just as good to draw it on turn 7 instead of turn 3. It is also in red, which is a color with plenty of removals, and could get away with not splashing a second color to deal with opponent's creature.

Relying on birds/elves to get you the early GGG in a G/X deck is not the best strategy, and it is on the same level as Phylactery Lich where you need to have A to cast B, which we all know how well he performed after the initial reaction from people that "HE IS BROKEN!!!"

[/QUOTE]

Hum, I agree with the red independent thing but the Ooze is not inefficient if not 'enlarged' with +1+1, he's still a great blocker for most of what your opponents throws at you.

If cast early, he's a beast. If cast late, he can stale the game a bit until you set yourself up better.

Either way, he's serviceable.

What if you center your deck around strong defence/stalling, the ooze, days of judgment, etc. In standard, it hold up against most deck I believe and if you introduce a Sun Titan in the mix, you can find a way to cast the Ooze from your graveyard (this could be tasty)

No?

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted January 17, 2012 12:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Despite the nice ability and indestructible, GGG makes it pretty unplayable, other than a maybe in G/r Wolf Run, which isn't even running a full set of Dungrove Elder, whom is better than the ooze.

And when was the last time a CCC creature was playable?

The ooze is a fun card no doubt, but I wouldn't buy a bunch just to think it would go up in price, because it won't.


I agree it probably won't go up much beyond the 2-4 it's at now. That's fine. It's quite easy to cast, however; T1 Dual, Hierarch, T2 fetch + cast. Obviously, that depends on the format under discussion. But I could see it hanging around Legacy and increasing threat density while improving the late-game. It's a threat that needs to be answered, and quickly; that's good enough to justify a copy or two in at least some decks. Your opponent, after all, can only run so many StPs. I wouldn't run more than a couple, but I'm definitely going to be testing it out in a few decks.

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Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
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