quote:

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Originally posted by BernieB:
Whoa, I thought for sure that Almaster was the last wolf. This means that either Bernek or MasterWolf is the final werewolf. I am thinking Bernek.
Why? I am looking at the votes, he and Liq were really pushing to lynch me in round 5, his votes have been all over the board, he has not voted for the same person twice, he is a werewolf.
Why not MasterWolf? One thing that stands out isthat he missed a vote, no wolf would do that.
Why not me? Liq was really pushing to lynch my in rounds 4 and 5, that says something, I think. Plus I know I am not a hairy.
{voting Bernek}

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So is this what Liq instructed you to do? State how we voted together for you and then come after me. You don't really expect anyone to believe that. If you recall round 1, after ToL pointed out BoT I quickly turn my attention right there.

Round by Round Voting:

Round 1

Bernek - BoT
PGB - Thanos
Masterwolf - Almaster
Bernie - PGB

Round 2

Bernek - Xplicitr
PGB - JackSpade
Masterwolf - None
Bernie - PGB

Round 3

Bernek - Bugger
PGB - Bugger
Masterwolf - GLE
Bernie - Bernek

Round 4

Bernek - PD
PGB - GLE
Masterwolf - GLE
Bernie - Bernek

Round 5

Bernek - Bernie
PGB - Xplicitr
Masterwolf - Xplicitr
Bernie - Xplicitr

Round 6

Bernek - Liq
PGB - Liq
Masterwolf - Liq
Bernie - Liq

Bernie - you tried to build a case against PGB saying he is trying to disrupt the game. Then after Thanos basically clears him you still vote for him. Even after you say Jack makes u suspicious. Then you try to advert the attention towards my direction bringing up how I was upset about the Thanos situation. Had 2 people not brought it up and Almaster actually did his job we could of maybe had the seer longer. I have a right to be upset. You still try for another round to get me lynched and it doesn't work. Then you go off with piles finally. Then you suspect Almaster after he puts himself out there and then he gets lynched. poor play on your part, to bring it up then lynch him to try and save yourself.

As I see it, I feel as though it's pretty cut and dry. PGB you are gonna be the deciding vote this round. Bernie your play has been poor up to this point.

Voting BernieB

This is the game here people I think it's pretty cut and dry. Let's not hand this to the wolves after a round 1 clutch vote!

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

Last night, I was banished from the town of Pogglsworth. I stand unsurprised - I had all but completely blown my cover in the previous week, so it was only a matter of time before the canine monstrosities came looking for me. While I could have easily dispelled their foul stench were they unaware of my presence, I was no match for a targeted attack. I'm not overwhelmingly disappointed, though. I was growing slightly tired of standing guard over PGB's place of residence - despite my ever watchful eye, not once did I manage to snare the intruders. Perhaps my holy sword shall smite more prey in the next village I am assigned to.

I am saddened, however, by my own flaws - namely, the fact that I failed in my role as defender of the town. When their seer, Thanos, was in a time of great peril, I overlooked the obvious signs among the stars and squandered the powers granted to me on insignificance. When I transformed into my human avatar to mingle among the citizenry during the daytime, I voted multiple times for the individuals I had sworn to protect. Error after error. My heart is heavy. It was only in my final moments on earth that I was able to see justice delivered on the one they called "Liq" - and for that, I am thankful.

Now that I have returned to the heavens, all I can ask for is forgiveness from the citizens of Poggleseworth. May their next protector have a more watchful eye than I did. Until then, I can do nothing for them but wish the best of luck. Victory is within their reach - I pray they are able to reach out and grasp it.

This post strikes me as WTF.

quote:

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YES! Ok, 2 down and AlmasterGM to go.
edit: Hi Bernek!

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Unless you weren't paying attention, Bernie, it was blindingly obvious that Almaster was the angel. He was as blatant as you can get. However, MW made a post that was just as WTF right before it.

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Well, I can't disregard AGM just straight up lying...

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Perhaps he did not believe him, no matter how obvious it was. He save a small amount of face with his follow up.

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But, the game has changed. Assuming he's telling the truth, we have 2 confirmed cits, and then 2 wolves among 4 people. Since we know for a fact that PGB is a cit, I suggest we all just vote however he votes for the remaining rounds. It forces us to live or die by PGB's choice, but it'll prevent the wolves from fixing the vote in their favor. Changing my vote to Liq.

Remember, Unity is the only way we win right now.

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As for Bernek, nothing really strikes out at me as clean or dirty. Nothing that stands out at all. I feel voting patterns can be deceiving at this stage of the game, so I won't spend time analyzing them. In all, I can't vote for someone I am pretty neutral about. That's just silly.

I suspect MW slightly. He's been fighting every step of the way, but lately he's been adamant about following me. Perhaps he is taking the gamble that if I am wrong he'll win. It's one in three at this point. Not bad odds.

I suspect Bernie moderately. His saving grace was his early jump on the Liq wagon last round. It's clear that my word has been law since I was cleared, so that's only a small saving grace. Even if he disagreed Liq would have been overwhelmed anyway.

It's a strange feeling to have this much power with my vote. It felt best to not exercise it right away and slink off a bit. I wasn't going to be suspected, due to my having been cleared, and if i was wrong, it was an easy out for a guilty party to say "I went along with PGB." Sometimes the best thing you can do with infinite power is to not use it, and that felt like the best time.

Well, there are three left. Bernek, MW, and Bernie. Or as I put it, Neutral, Slight, and Moderate. Since I have the final say basically in the vote, I'm going with the moderate

I vote BernieB.

quote:

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Originally posted by MasterWolf:
I actually suspect Bernek a little more than Bernie due to his attempted defense of Liq. It just seems fishy that he would be all for defending Liq until it seemed to be too late. PGB: have you taken this into consideration?

I am submitting a vote for Bernie. I'll check back tomorrow to see if there is any change.

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Yes I defended Liq but I didn't think he was so suspicious. He was playing normal liq play. But like it was said, why is Liq still alive? Would I vote for BoT and delcare it early then change my vote to liq. WHy not try to push more for someone else. It's cuz PGB made a good point.

I already submitted my vote for Bernie.

Here's hoping for the villagers!

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
Yes I defended Liq but I didn't think he was so suspicious. He was playing normal liq play. But like it was said, why is Liq still alive? Would I vote for BoT and delcare it early then change my vote to liq. WHy not try to push more for someone else. It's cuz PGB made a good point.
I already submitted my vote for Bernie.
Here's hoping for the villagers!

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BernieB was a villager.
After the wolf kill, with no angel, the game is over.

Lone surviving wolf feel free to reveal yourself.

I have some serious updating to do.

Chuck, next time you see me on aim, message me, as I need to discuss something with you.

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 9!][My Brute!]

Amirite?

Bernie? Can you count? You have 3 votes on you, you know you are a villager, and all you have to say is "here's hoping the cits win"? Since you knew the cits were NOT going to win, why wouldn't you try to defend yourself?

MM I'm on AIM right now.

quote:

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Originally posted by MasterWolf:
Not that hard to guess with 50/50 odds

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Gotcha.

quote:

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Originally posted by MasterWolf:
Not that hard to guess with 50/50 odds

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I was quite surprised to find that Liq was the leader.

That said, I won't let your lack of charity dissuade me from saying I think you played a brilliant game--block voting with PGB was excellent strategy and there was no harm in it since it only takes one wolf to win--as long as he isn't voting for you. You didn't need to make others trust you, you only needed to make him trust you.

Bernek as usual was completely distracted with Bernie, and Liq pushed his buttons by casting suspicion on a player who was less equipped for defense. This was a lovely triple bluff. I daresay he assumed players would assume that he was casting suspicion on Bernie precisely because Bernie was a wolf, and was "hoping" that his suspicions would be discounted upon his being revealed. But I'll further wager he had pretty much planned on being lynched and revealed far earlier in the game.

My great regret this game was locking on to GLE. His actions made no sense to me if he was a cit--but he was a cit. This is a cautionary reminder to me that I am often unable to make sense of the actions of others, but that doesn't necessarily make them suspicious. Apologies GLE.

My secondary regret is of course attempting to advise XPR. I never should have sent that message. Fortunately the wolves were so capable that it didn't matter the unfair advantage that gave the cits and they deservedly took this game. I fully expect at this point I am probably banned from some number of games, and that's cool. I have a lot to do in my life right now anyway.

My hat is off to you Liq, MasterWolf, and BoT. Well played--and especially you MasterWolf, you may be new but you played like a pro IMHO.

For what it's worth, I am of the opinion that the MVP on the wolf team was probably Liq. On the cit team I think PGB was our most useful asset.

{SUMMARY: Congrats wolves, final thoughts.}

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Jeeze... gimme a little credit. Among the dead players we've been discussing it for the last couple weeks. I suspected you pretty much right after I died because the special-roles activity kept coming to a standstill when you were away from the computer.

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I cant give credit for something you came up with after you met death....oO

quote:

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Sadly nobody else noticed. As a result I thought you were either the wolf leader or the angel.

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Says you...

lol

quote:

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Once it turned out that AGM was the angel I figured it was most likely you and Liq,

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Me too.

quote:

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block voting with PGB was excellent strategy and there was no harm in it since it only takes one wolf to win--as long as he isn't voting for you. You didn't need to make others trust you, you only needed to make him trust you.

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agreed.

quote:

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My great regret this game was locking on to GLE. His actions made no sense to me if he was a cit--but he was a cit. This is a cautionary reminder to me that I am often unable to make sense of the actions of others, but that doesn't necessarily make them suspicious. Apologies GLE.

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Yes, I thought it was to far of a reach you to go after GLE.

quote:

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My secondary regret is of course attempting to advise XPR. I never should have sent that message. Fortunately the wolves were so capable that it didn't matter the unfair advantage that gave the cits and they deservedly took this game. I fully expect at this point I am probably banned from some number of games, and that's cool. I have a lot to do in my life right now anyway.

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With this I knew you were a cit, only becuz it wd be a chance to take if you were otherwise regardless if you were an Angel, Seer, WW. I hope you just get a slap on the wrist, as i have seen others constanly miss votes and its worse for the game.

My choice if asked for MVP would be MW

I am dissappointed about some play styles tho. No offense but players like BB and thanos. your play styles will greatly affect future games, regardless of your roles. your one line suspicions and lack of real input puts you at risk in upcoming games. Re: Thanos's game this game was a wash for sure. alot of people looked at his previous games and he was casted as a liability, there for him getting caught up for a lynch and forcing himself to come out.

Of course PD and me IMed each other after our deaths and he did cast suspicion on MW saying exactly what he told you guys he said and that was a great catch from him.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
I was quite surprised to find that Liq was the leader.

Bernek as usual was completely distracted with Bernie, and Liq pushed his buttons by casting suspicion on a player who was less equipped for defense. This was a lovely triple bluff. I daresay he assumed players would assume that he was casting suspicion on Bernie precisely because Bernie was a wolf, and was "hoping" that his suspicions would be discounted upon his being revealed. But I'll further wager he had pretty much planned on being lynched and revealed far earlier in the game.

My hat is off to you Liq, MasterWolf, and BoT. Well played--and especially you MasterWolf, you may be new but you played like a pro IMHO.

For what it's worth, I am of the opinion that the MVP on the wolf team was probably Liq. On the cit team I think PGB was our most useful asset.

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FYI it is OOC for Liq to change his vote barring a reveal from the seer. I may have changed my vote like 5 times prior to this game.

MW's play in this game was the 3rd best I've seen from a 1st time wolf.

PGB was probably the best asset I've ever had. As long as the Angel protected him, I had clear field to knock out anyone of my choosing which I did. As long as his word was taken as law, his suspicions proved quite useful. The Angel should have never spent a round protecting him.

Overall good game guys.

quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
Jeeze... gimme a little credit. Among the dead players we've been discussing it for the last couple weeks. I suspected you pretty much right after I died because the special-roles activity kept coming to a standstill when you were away from the computer.

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This was in no way the fault of the wolves. MM had our next kill prior to votes being due each time (barring the 2nd kill as MM forgot to assign a new leader).

@ Bugger :

I do not need to convince you that you are a wolf when you know you are not. It does not matter if you do a good job at defending yourself which I don't think you did. What mattered was that I got others to thinking about how they saw your play. As long as the post was able to create a bit of suspicion between you and the others, it was a success.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

quote:

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Originally posted by XplicitR:
I pinned Liq but was surprised to hear about AlmasterGM, what is that 4 special roles in a row?

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Yes, I'm 4 for 4 on special roles ... I have yet to be a normal citizen in this game. Angel is definitely not my favorite.

quote:

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Originally posted by XplicitR:
The reason I discounted him as the angel was that I didn't think that he was that incompetent to not save Thanos...could you shed some light into why you chose otherwise AGM?

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Simple oversight. Thanos as the seer just flew right over my head. Obviously it's pretty clear in hindsight, but at the time I didn't really think much of the big ta-do. GLE was my save for the first two rounds ... he seemed to group well with the first two wolf kills of ryan and Jazaray, so I figured he could be next. For the rest of the game, I saved PGB. I did contemplate abandoning him a couple of times, but everyone had posted that PGB needed to be protected and I had already messed up once ... soo I figured to just play it "safe" and not get myself shot after the game for letting PGB die. Unfortunately, I should've taken the leap - the person I was thinking of protecting instead was ToL, who ended up being eaten. Oh well. My bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
I cant give credit for something you came up with after you met death....oO

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Says you...

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http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3574546631_5eba77aa72_o.gif

There's a redacted bit because my opinion of the playstyle of certain players is irrelevant to the point here, which is simply to demonstrate that I'm not rewriting history and claiming I saw things I didn't. I don't have a self esteem issue and I don't need to take credit for ideas that I didn't have.

Call me stupid, call me arrogant, call me wrong--that's fine. But I don't take kindly to people questioning my integrity. At all.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Yes, I thought it was to far of a reach you to go after GLE.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
With this I knew you were a cit, only becuz it wd be a chance to take if you were otherwise regardless if you were an Angel, Seer, WW.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
I hope you just get a slap on the wrist, as i have seen others constanly miss votes and its worse for the game.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
My choice if asked for MVP would be MW

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
I am dissappointed about some play styles tho. No offense but players like BB and thanos. your play styles will greatly affect future games, regardless of your roles. your one line suspicions and lack of real input puts you at risk in upcoming games.

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quote:

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Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
There's definitely a good argument for MW as MVP--what I don't know is how much of his play was Liq's tutelage at work. But he played an excellent game, and fortunately it isn't up to me.

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I'm a hands off kind of player. I give them a good speech at the beginning and see where they go from there. Our conversations were more or less who we were going to kill next.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

lol jeez, dont get mad cuz no one is throwing any praise your way friend.

Im not saying you never sent the PM, to me its 20/20 hindsight, you watch as the game progresses with out any impact on you to see who has what role, why? because there is no suspicion on you or you try to read othersduring the game. All you do is watch and not worry about gettin lynched or shredded.

Integrity, now your been silly.

As for your suspicion on GLE you based that off of Thanos words that he trusted PGB and suspected GLE. But u know he could only have screened one of these. Tho this was not the basis of your full suspicion i thought it was weak.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
lol jeez, dont get mad cuz no one is throwing any praise your way friend.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Im not saying you never sent the PM, to me its 20/20 hindsight, you watch as the game progresses with out any impact on you to see who has what role, why? because there is no suspicion on you or you try to read othersduring the game. All you do is watch and not worry about gettin lynched or shredded.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Integrity, now your been silly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
As for your suspicion on GLE you based that off of Thanos words that he trusted PGB and suspected GLE.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
But u know he could only have screened one of these. Tho this was not the basis of your full suspicion i thought it was weak.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Don't get upset dude.

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In the interest of not furthering a peeing match with you during MW's victory dance, I'll not discuss the matter further. The last word is yours.

@MW: I understood your response--I know you were teasing. My second response was directed entirely at fwy and not at you. You have every right to be excited and pleased with yourself--you played an excellent game.

@LIQ: I see, in that case I agree that MW is clearly the wolf MVP. WRT PGB, he did foment the wagon on you, so that was key. I still think he was the cits MVP. If not him, then who? Thanos? Unlike fwy I thought Thanos played fairly decently given a very challenging position for him to be in (yes it's true he was in that position because of his behavior in the previous game, but we don't base MVP awards on events that transpired in other games). He dropped the requisite hints and prevented the crowd from wasting a lynch, and he got his information out to the players without straight up revealing. Had the angel focussed on him, we'd have had an R2 save which would have given us another round.

WRT to the standstill during MW's absences; The best lead I had was completely coincidence, but right anyway? LOL! Awesome. I guess a broken clock is right twice a day. Another cautionary tale not to draw too many conclusions from the metagame. Thank you for setting me straight.

Liq did most of the killing, and he made some brilliant plays:

1) Taking the big risk of killing PD after GLE got lynched, leaving himself open as the last "bigname" player left. It was a bluff that worked, as people didn't lynch him thinking that's what the wolves wanted. But he showed a lot of faith that I'd have a good chance even if he died.

2) Avoiding taking out Thanos once the info that he was "special" dropped. He didn't want to risk an angel save early on. Liq is a very good strategist. He was killing "random" people but it worked. I would have probably killed different people, and that may have cost us the game in hindsight.

Other observations:
I wonder how the game would have played out if Liq and I saved BoT and voted off Thanos R1. There would be no safe PGB, and we'd have 3 wolves. But I wonder if that would have ended up getting us killed in the end due to piles.

AGM playing "suspiciously" was actually a pretty good strategy on his part, as it caused us to leave him alive for the majority of the game because we figured he'd get lynched eventually.

The deck was stacked against us from the beginning. We had to deal with, basically, Thanos, PGB, AGM, PD, and XPR being mostly-confirmed cits, narrowing the field greatly.

I do have some questions however about all the revealing. It doesn't seem to be fair that the seer/angel can come out and state that they are ____ and so please don't kill them. I thought that was the point of "Once the Seer reveals himself and his information, the Angel can no longer protect him". Thanos effectively revealed himself without officially revealing himself, and if AGM had been paying attention, they would have had a protected seer for the whole game.

I feel like you should not be able to imply you have a special role as it skews the game.

The game should have been over after the ToL kill, but AGM implied he was the angel and saved his skin.

If we continue to allow this, then we run the risk of wolves using that as a strategy. "omg don't lynch me, you'll REEEEAAALLLY regret it" implying they are innocent but actually being guilty.

quote:

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Originally posted by MasterWolf:
I do have some questions however about all the revealing. It doesn't seem to be fair that the seer/angel can come out and state that they are ____ and so please don't kill them. I thought that was the point of "Once the Seer reveals himself and his information, the Angel can no longer protect him". Thanos effectively revealed himself without officially revealing himself, and if AGM had been paying attention, they would have had a protected seer for the whole game.

I feel like you should not be able to imply you have a special role as it skews the game.

The game should have been over after the ToL kill, but AGM implied he was the angel and saved his skin.

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This is a huge issue that I feel needs to be addressed before next game. If implied seer revealing is not banned and still allows angel protections, what would stop the citizens from executing the following strategy

1) The seer strongly "implies" they are the seer. It's not a 100% reveal, but clearly enough so that the majority of the players in the game catch on.
2) The angel protects that person until he himself is killed. Even if the angel doesn't pick up on the hints, the mere threat of protection will probably stop the wolves from trying to take out the seer (for example, the PGB issue). This would be especially true considering the wolves would be playing against the clock - every angel-save round is 1 more name for the seer.
3) Each round, the seer posts a suspicion list just like any other citizen. However, because we are all "pretty sure" this person is the seer, we can take the suspicion list as being 100% accurate.
4) If any wolf were to lie about being the seer, they would immediately be investigated and caught by the real seer. Their lie would also be exposed if they ever directed us to lynch a citizen or if the real seer was lynched accidentally.

This plan effectively makes the seer invincible until the angel is found. There are probably other additions you could make to the strategy to hide the angel and other such things - the possibilities with large numbers of confirmed citizens are endless. I'm not sure if this would break the game or not, but it would certainly make it much, much more difficult for the wolves.

Thoughts? Clearly, this plan seems illegitimate. However, according to the current rules, it's perfectly acceptable, as this is exactly what happened with the Thanos situation.