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Originally posted by tommartell:
I think what you are observing here is a source of most of the "conflict" with what I've tried to do in my thread. If I want to interact with dealers, I'll go sell to CFB or SCG on their websites or buy from them there or on eBay. I was trying to find other people who are looking to deal near the mid.

If SCG is buying card X for $50 and selling it for $100, there is a ton of room for two non-dealer individuals who want to move a specific card to find a happy solution. But if you are another dealer, then you also want to buy basically at $50 and sell at basically $100 and I am not the person you want to talk to.

I was hoping to find a trading outlet that was like ebay 5 years ago, before any dealers were doing volume business there and the prices were pegged to more or less store prices. I want to talk to the guy about to sell his card to SCG for $50 so I could offer him $75 for it and we'd both be better off. I guess that fellow isn't here either but I do now understand the reaction I've gotten from many of the regulars here.

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This is one thing I can very much agree with, I try to use MOTL to get stuff that is harder to find and/or more in demand locally, and trade/sell off things that are cheap locally and/or easier to get.

It's also nice to have the middle ground, though that tends to work more on big stuff, as opposed to 4-5$ cards, really not much wiggle room there.

and

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
Funny, because by all accounts I've heard Tom's a great guy to hang out with. Maybe you should be less of a condescending douchebag.

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Originally posted by AtriumXP:
(not that other users are making it particularly easy to take the high road

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MOTL has a high road? !!!!

and here I've always been stuck in the trenches...

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Can't believe people are already getting bitter, guess for some this stopped being a discussion awhile ago...which is sad

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Originally posted by fwybwed:I think I would dislike this guy Tom if i met him in a store or game night. Might wanna spill a root beer float on his trade binder...

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__________________
Motl member since November 1, 2000

Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner!

37th in refs on Motl!

First in refs in state of Arizona!

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
I wouldn't say that I'm bitter; I have zero tolerance for people being dicks and saying that they'd ruin other people's stuff, however.

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Wasn't aimed at you, quoted you cause I agreed.

Was more aimed at the guy you quoted.

I see it as being one thing to discuss this, and get both sides points across, I however have no interest in bickering, seems pointless.

Also hate my ability to relay messages over the internet

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Originally posted by AtriumXP:
It's not the haggling... it's the part about arguing the differences between MOTL and eBay as your main point of contention that I've ever had an issue with I actually think this has been pretty overblown, though. It would have gone down much differently if you just said "My counteroffer is X".

I'm also sensing that you're just a proud guy and willing to argue on behalf of your beliefs in spite of the obvious gray area (both sides are basically right). That is, rather than just settling to agree to disagree (not that other users are making it particularly easy to take the high road

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I generally just enjoy arguing too much to give up

Also, while I can completely understand someone not wanting to do business on my terms, I really can't understand the argument that my terms are inherently offensive so I'm willing to defend them pretty vigorously.

I like having more options when I'm trying to find a deal that works and I would rather someone post their offers and terms rather than not post at all. I don't see how driving away possible buyers/sellers is beneficial to anyone unless the terms are truly ridiculous and they are really just spamming.

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Originally posted by AtriumXP:
And what villain would sacrifice a root beer float merely to smite one's enemy?

Out of line, sir. Out of line. >

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and now with everything settled, lets gang up on the root beer float villain!!!! :P

__________________
Motl member since November 1, 2000

Your 2008 and 2010 Motl Siskel & Ebert award winner!

37th in refs on Motl!

First in refs in state of Arizona!

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Originally posted by AtriumXP:
And what villain would sacrifice a root beer float merely to smite one's enemy?

Out of line, sir. Out of line. >

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Originally posted by tommartell:
I would probably trade my entire trade binder for a good root beer float, which would be better for everyone involved I think.

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Defiantly the Root Beer Float, I would be ****ed if I was the
Root Beer Float and I just got dumped on someone, I was made to be consumed!...

Now with all that, back to actual work type stuff, got several binders worth to type out...

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
I wouldn't say that I'm bitter; I have zero tolerance for people being dicks and saying that they'd ruin other people's stuff, however.

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Originally posted by revenger:
Question: Could I go to another site, salvation, channelfireball, a site that uses references, and say "I'm buying X cards, you send first as I've been a long established member of magictraders.com for over 10 years "? I honestly think I would be laughed right out of there.

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Those are stores. They are subject to a different set of rules and I have easily obtainable legal recourse against them should there be a dispute. They are established public personas greater than "ScreenNameXYZ". Incidentally, several major retailers will also advance me cards on credit under the assumption that I am good for it, as they have known me a long time. But that is not really the point of your argument.

From a practical application point, I actually changed my terms on this a while ago and stated that I would pay first for anyone with a lot of references. My logic here is that they functionally are stores themselves so it really doesn't matter. My initial stance was from the fundamentally misguided view that this was a much more grass roots venue that dealt with more one-off participants than it actually is.

However, I still think from a principles standpoint that if I insisted on everyone shipping first, there is nothing wrong with that. Some people would choose to not do business with me because of it, but others would find the opportunity to sell cards to me to be more important than the risk incurred by shipping first. It is a market. It self-corrects for these sorts of terms.

And Zak I am not a douche bag, I take offense. You are acting like I came to your buylist and started haggling or telling you to cut prices in line of ebay fees or something that I care not about! GAWD~!

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Originally posted by tommartell:
Giving you another option to achieve liquidity is not acting like I am better than you. It is providing you with another outlet to sell a card you might not otherwise get to sell. If you cannot understand this concept then we really have very little to say to each other.

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Originally posted by rats60:
You're the one that is having trouble understanding the concept, there are better outlets than you to sell cards to. The guy who is selling low to SCG is either doing in person because he needs cash or wants to deal with someone who is 100% reliable. No matter the high opinion you have of yourself, you are not that guy and no one on here is either. They will also buy it all, you just want to cherry pick. Those who want to sell for more will look for a dealer who pays more or sell their card on Ebay.

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So if I offer you more than a dealer is going to give you and more than you'd get on EBay after fees, but less than the actual "sell" price on EBay, you'd say no? Seems pretty short-sighted to me.

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Originally posted by rats60:
You're the one that is having trouble understanding the concept, there are better outlets than you to sell cards to.

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So don't sell to me? Problem solved!

I've bought several cards so far via this site, so clearly other people do find my offers to have value.

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Originally posted by tommartell:
So don't sell to me? Problem solved!

I've bought several cards so far via this site, so clearly other people do find my offers to have value.

You realize what a difficult hole you've dug for yourself, right? You are trying to prove that I offer literally no value to any potential seller by insisting that they send first. I am arguing that some sellers (not necessarily you, as you seem like someone I would never want to deal with) will find value in me publicizing my buylist even with that caveat attached. Short term anecdotal evidence suggests you are wrong.

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
So if I offer you more than a dealer is going to give you and more than you'd get on EBay after fees, but less than the actual "sell" price on EBay, you'd say no? Seems pretty short-sighted to me.

EDIT: I've actually had a prospective seller tell me he wouldn't go below EBay price on multiple occasions. I declined and went to EBay instead. He lost out on a sale that would have gotten him more money than the EBay seller netted.

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If you came on here with 0 references and told me I had to send first, I would absolutely say no, even if you were willing to pay more than Ebay. I guess if someone is desperate to sell their cards you'd get some buyers.

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Originally posted by rats60:
If you came on here with 0 references and told me I had to send first, I would absolutely say no, even if you were willing to pay more than Ebay. I guess if someone is desperate to sell their cards you'd get some buyers.

By the way, you do realize that this guy isn't offering more than dealers or Ebay less fees on all his cards don't you?

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Originally posted by rats60:
Seeing as you're the one trying to buy cards and I have many of the cards you want, it's your loss. I don't deal with people like you who act like thet're better than anyone else. I don't need your money. There are plenty of other outlets to sell to my cards to.

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You are either doing a great job of trolling or you are unbelievably stupid. I'm honestly not sure which.

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Originally posted by revenger:
Question: Could I go to another site, salvation, channelfireball, a site that uses references, and say "I'm buying X cards, you send first as I've been a long established member of magictraders.com for over 10 years "?

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Sure, people do that all the time.