quote:

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Originally posted by Pippincro:
Second part of this is true, but first part isn't really. There are usually 2 options cited in selling threads:
1) personal payment
2) CC payment, aka goods purchase where buyer adds around 4%

Not sure how things work in US, but for example when sending money through Paypal from my country (European one) - I end up paying the same 4% whether I send as personal payment or as purchasing online goods.
In personal payment case, 4% is automatically calculated by paypal for me, and in second case I manually calculate 4% and add to the final sum (as agreed with seller).

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
Whereas on eBay you'd eat those fees too.

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In terms of higher average price for singles than on MOTL, and inflexible shipping rates... yes.
This is however tied to the phenomenon that most ebay sellers don't send outside USA, so those that do send, get higher prices because there is larger demand and more bidding wars.

My point is that it's not all black and white out there with MOTL seller's being the baddies that store the 13% ebay+paypal fee difference in their pocket.

Since you've replied... let me ask you this. I remember your sell threads on MOTL. What prices did you charge then? Close to those of ebay completed (aka what buyers end up paying), or did you take 13-15% off the lowest ebay completed price?

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Originally posted by tommartell:
Except all sellers require the buyer to transfer the funds as a personal payment so this protection does not apply. This is part of the sellers here wanting to cut their fees and keep the same sell prices.

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Actually, this is slightly more false than you think Tom. We actually are legally not allowed to ask for a personal payment. I know I don't, but some buyers do it that way anyway. And before anyone says it, no, I do not charge for the fees unless the buyer upfront asks me to add them on. Some will calculate it themselves and add it in without telling me, which is a always a pleasant surprise.

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My 2008 Nationals)

As far as selling via eBay values, I'm just going to put this in perspective here. A sale list where everything is 15% off the lowest (or even average) eBay completed listings is going to have nearly everything sell within a week. Think about it for a second, that's NM Bazaars at $170-175, Underground Seas at $85, FoWs at $42.50, Snapcasters at $17 (people BUYLIST these at 18-19) and so on. I know some of you aren't very active on the TA/S forums, but for those who are, have you actually ever seen those prices on cards that DON'T sell VERY quickly? I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that those cards I just mentioned will sell near-immediately at those prices, and that's your 15% off average eBay. If those prices actually seem reasonable to you as opposed to low, do please let me know when you guys set up a sales list. I'll be glad to put in an offer on your entire collection, for that matter.

Most people also don't absolutely "require" personal payment. They just ask you to add 4% if you're paying via goods, and it can often be just a simple matter of haggling that 4%. I've waived that requirement on more than one occasion, though it's usually reserved for people who don't otherwise make lower offers than my asking price, repeat customers or those who buy a large chunk of stuffs.

You know, eBay BINs are also often discounted from people's valuation of average eBay prices, because they're considered "overpriced" and "inflated." In fact, these BINs do still sell, and those prices often reflect the eBay and PayPal fees that the seller knows he is going to be charged. Moreover, eBay BINs are more like MOTL sales because you don't have to wait for auctions to end and hope you win it; you just buy the card. They're far more analogous to our sales lists here than auction-ending prices are, yet sales prices here are nearly always below BIN prices on eBay (not always, but very often). If we're going to start looking at taking 15% off for everything, maybe we should start factoring in eBay BIN prices in our average too. That'll actually probably increase average eBay value by 15%, evening things right back out.

quote:

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Originally posted by rockondon:
I had spaghetti 2 days in a row and the farts I had today were enough to kill a man.

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rockondon has claimed PFS 348 victory.

So call me maybe! (281-330-8004)

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Originally posted by Bagbokk:
@MW: Nah, you can offer whatever you'd like, of course. But then if you post on someone's list that has a Beta dual and ask to buy one for $5, and the guy responds "no thanks" (assuming he doesn't just outright ignore that offer) and you go back to their list and tell them that it's insane for anyone to buy their Beta Underground Sea at $900 and that your offer of $5 is perfectly fine because (insert reasons here), ... yeah. Although, I have a little more respect for Tom since he did end up admitting that his comment in that regard was in poor taste.

As far as selling via eBay values, I'm just going to put this in perspective here. A sale list where everything is 15% off the lowest (or even average) eBay completed listings is going to have nearly everything sell within a week. Think about it for a second, that's NM Bazaars at $170-175, Underground Seas at $85, FoWs at $42.50, Snapcasters at $17 (people BUYLIST these at 18-19) and so on. I know some of you aren't very active on the TA/S forums, but for those who are, have you actually ever seen those prices on cards that DON'T sell VERY quickly? I absolutely, 100% guarantee you that those cards I just mentioned will sell near-immediately at those prices, and that's your 15% off average eBay. If those prices actually seem reasonable to you as opposed to low, do please let me know when you guys set up a sales list. I'll be glad to put in an offer on your entire collection, for that matter.

Most people also don't absolutely "require" personal payment. They just ask you to add 4% if you're paying via goods, and it can often be just a simple matter of haggling that 4%. I've waived that requirement on more than one occasion, though it's usually reserved for people who don't otherwise make lower offers than my asking price, repeat customers or those who buy a large chunk of stuffs.

You know, eBay BINs are also often discounted from people's valuation of average eBay prices, because they're considered "overpriced" and "inflated." In fact, these BINs do still sell, and those prices often reflect the eBay and PayPal fees that the seller knows he is going to be charged. Moreover, eBay BINs are more like MOTL sales because you don't have to wait for auctions to end and hope you win it; you just buy the card. They're far more analogous to our sales lists here than auction-ending prices are, yet sales prices here are nearly always below BIN prices on eBay (not always, but very often). If we're going to start looking at taking 15% off for everything, maybe we should start factoring in eBay BIN prices in our average too. That'll actually probably increase average eBay value by 15%, evening things right back out.

I think people also overestimate the availability of certain cards sometimes. Some of those foils have zero auctions going on, you either buy a BIN or you don't (well, sure, you can do some "best offers" too, no different from haggling on here though; some people will haggle with me via ebay messages even if I don't have an OBO set up). I mean, I guess you could try your luck with that "NM-" Metalworker that doesn't have a scan/picture up, for $67 (the lowest listed that's close to NM), free shipping & ebay bucks (so around $65.50 if you want to factor that in)... or you can just buy it from MAB for $65+shipping and from personal experience he's happy to provide scans so you know exactly what you're getting, and seemed to ship out next-day?

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OK, so instead of eating 15% in EBay Fees, let's say you price it 5% lower. You're making more money than EBay, and the seller's paying less. Why is this an issue? Not to mention Ebay Bucks, buyer protection, etc. There are a lot of intrinsic benefits to EBay that you're not considering in this. The majority of sellers demand that you eat the fees here in addition to charging the same as EBay.

Not this post, as it's a post for stuff, and well, stuff is pretty vague.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyosukee:
People's post etiquettes are on the ways down.

Not this post, as it's a post for stuff, and well, stuff is pretty vague.

But I want to posit a question. If you see someone being a D to someone on another thread,would you post on that thread and more or less derail it to call that person out?

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Personally, I wouldn't do it there. Bring the fight to this thread instead!

__________________
MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - 2007, 2008, and 2009
(My 2008 Nationals)

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyosukee:
Tom, I just met you... and this crazy... but here's my number.

So call me maybe! (281-330-8004)

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Just don't start droppin names...aight!~~

FNM in your town:

"Yeah me n Tommy {Tom M} chatted it up laast night through text..."

"You know Tom M???"

"Yeah of course!!! Don't you???"

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
OK, so instead of eating 15% in EBay Fees, let's say you price it 5% lower. You're making more money than EBay, and the seller's paying less.

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Originally posted by gaeacradle:
Unless a card is hot AND/OR I have other ways to get rid of it for the price I want, usually, I would opt to go lower than Ebay averages to entice people to buy from me. But I still need to charge people whatever the cost of shipping is.

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Sure. I'm not saying charging shipping is bad. Shipping is a cost just like anything else. There's plenty of room to make more money than selling on EBay while helping fellow Magic players get good deals.

EDIT : Out of curiosity, what % can a collection worth over 15k be sold at (considering its mainly high legacy cards + foils)?

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Originally posted by Zakman86:
(Side note: I generally offer free shipping because $2 isn't that big of a deal to me, but I may be the exception rather than the norm.)

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Obviously there are pros and cons in using both MOTL and eBay, and a certain site might be better than the other for certain reasons. Availability issues aside, if a certain card is priced the same shipped on both sites, I'll certainly buy it on eBay rather than on MOTL. Considering the benefits both sites provide, ebay definitely provides more value for the same amount of money with their buyer protection policy and eBay bucks. As a buyer I'll definitely want the the seller on MOTL to provide me some sort of incentive to buy from him/her, be it slightly cheaper cards or doing a bulk deal to save my time etc. It seems totally ridiculous if the seller would want me to gift him a payment (or pay his Paypal fees) and still charge me the same price as eBay. I'll just buy off eBay, no question about it.

Sellers want a higher price for their items, and buyers would always want cards at a lower price. It is up to the seller and buyer on MOTL to negotiate a price where everyone is happy with the outcome. I feel a reasonable number would be somewhere in between the price on eBay and the price after fees. Not necessarily exactly in between these prices, but possibly how much the buyer values the cost of the added value eBay provides is worth. If a buyer and seller could agree on somewhere in between these two prices which would ultimately benefit both parties, why not? Sellers often fix their prices of their BINs to offset fees, but you still can find a good amount of BINs on eBay that are asking extremely close to MOTL prices.

Some issues buyers *might* have on this site are due to sellers charging them prices equal or higher than on eBay, and yet asking them to pay via a personal payment or settle the eBay fees. It is quite obvious sellers are clearly reaping all the benefits in this transaction. Not to mention there isn't much buyer protection from DC due to the previous ruling. All these adds up additional costs for the buyers, and to simply put this makes the price of an item unattractive.

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Originally posted by Magik321:
I have had no issues passing the close to or the entire fee discount for my items on eBay if dealt privately. eBay fees for top rated sellers is now 20%. You get an additional 5% off till 31st May for meeting some other requirements. I appreciate having some buyers giving me a little more than the amount I get after fees. Still that is just a bonus for me since on eBay I'll never get that extra cash.

Obviously there are pros and cons in using both MOTL and eBay, and a certain site might be better than the other for certain reasons. Availability issues aside, if a certain card is priced the same shipped on both sites, I'll certainly buy it on eBay rather than on MOTL. Considering the benefits both sites provide, ebay definitely provides more value for the same amount of money with their buyer protection policy and eBay bucks. As a buyer I'll definitely want the the seller on MOTL to provide me some sort of incentive to buy from him/her, be it slightly cheaper cards or doing a bulk deal to save my time etc. It seems totally ridiculous if the seller would want me to gift him a payment (or pay his Paypal fees) and still charge me the same price as eBay. I'll just buy off eBay, no question about it.

Sellers want a higher price for their items, and buyers would always want cards at a lower price. It is up to the seller and buyer on MOTL to negotiate a price where everyone is happy with the outcome. I feel a reasonable number would be somewhere in between the price on eBay and the price after fees. Not necessarily exactly in between these prices, but possibly how much the buyer values the cost of the added value eBay provides is worth. If a buyer and seller could agree on somewhere in between these two prices which would ultimately benefit both parties, why not? Sellers often fix their prices of their BINs to offset fees, but you still can find a good amount of BINs on eBay that are asking extremely close to MOTL prices.

Some issues buyers *might* have on this site are due to sellers charging them prices equal or higher than on eBay, and yet asking them to pay via a personal payment or settle the eBay fees. It is quite obvious sellers are clearly reaping all the benefits in this transaction. Not to mention there isn't much buyer protection from DC due to the previous ruling. All these adds up additional costs for the buyers, and to simply put this makes the price of an item unattractive.

Just my 2 cents (and no, this isn't directed to anyone).

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+1. This is pretty much what some of us have been saying, but dealer wannabes hate it when you try to rock their boat.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
+1. This is pretty much what some of us have been saying, but dealer wannabes hate it when you try to rock their boat.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Omega:
11th week strike now... and the government has yet to propose something...

EDIT : Out of curiosity, what % can a collection worth over 15k be sold at (considering its mainly high legacy cards + foils)?

Nobody bothered to reply me on the T/V -.-

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I would like to take a side but I just can't. The students are acting like spoiled kids and the government doesn't want to make a deal.

The students need to realize that they aren't fighting for their right to live, they're fighting against a slightly over-the-top increase in tuition. And the more stuff they break, the less likely it is that the government is going to negociate with them.

quote:

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
rockondon has claimed PFS 348 victory.

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Motion to dedicate PfS #349 to Don's Spaghetti Farts

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Motion to dedicate PfS #349 to Don's Spaghetti Farts

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pippincro:
In terms of higher average price for singles than on MOTL, and inflexible shipping rates... yes.
This is however tied to the phenomenon that most ebay sellers don't send outside USA, so those that do send, get higher prices because there is larger demand and more bidding wars.

My point is that it's not all black and white out there with MOTL seller's being the baddies that store the 13% ebay+paypal fee difference in their pocket.

Since you've replied... let me ask you this. I remember your sell threads on MOTL. What prices did you charge then? Close to those of ebay completed (aka what buyers end up paying), or did you take 13-15% off the lowest ebay completed price?

Also - why is MTGO tix valued at around 1$ (fixed retail value) on secondary market? Sometimes it comes to even above 1$ due to buyers having to cover paypal fees. Reason is very simple - there is more than just USA market out there.

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