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Originally posted by Pail42:
Anybody got a fun uncommon or bulk rare suggestion to build a deck around? I'm stuck in a rut. Every deck I start to brainstorm lately always seems to end up wanting 4x Blood Artist and 4x Lingering Souls, but I don't have a playset of either. Poop.

I've noticed that my sleeved lands pick up more gunk than my other cards. Probably because I handle them so often tapping and untapping.

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What format? If standard I'd say the new GR 2/2 that gives combo of GR, seems like a budget version of that wouldn't be to hard, and seems fun, to me at least.

As for those playsets, I may be able to help you there some.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
if you rarely are getting screwed w/ real cards, you should shuffle better. I've played 25-26 land control decks and have drawn zero lands, it happens. The decision between 16, 17, and 18 lands should be made by your mana curve. I played last night w/ 3x 6 mana bombs and 4x 5cc creatures so I decided 18 lands was enough to make sure the bombs came online.

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I shuffle enough in real life. I usually didide the deck like this at home:
S L S S L S L S S L S L S S L etc. Then there are usually 2 lands left at the end, which I randomly put in there. WI then shuffle twice, and when I get to the tournament I lay the cards out in front of me facedown making 6 piles, so 10 rounds exactly. I then shuffle two or 3 times more and that's it. The laying out part and shuffling, I do this after every match/leg I play.

I watch my curve, and the color requirements of my spells. I rarely have much high cc cards in it, for example last night I played 3 Essence Drains and another 5cc card but that's it.

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
Lots of people are quick to jump on the MTGO shuffler bandwagon, without thinking that perhaps the digital experience doesn't reflect their offline one because in real life, they are experiencing problems LESS often than they should.

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I haven't played online much yet, just a draft or 8. So that's about 24 matches so far. But honestly, during at least 16-17 of those matches I got manascrewed, and I'm not counting the different legs. A lot of matches I lost 1-2 and got screwed twice.
But this is just when drafting or playing sealed. When I play my peasant Legacy deck I hardly ever get screwed, if at all.

I rarely get this in real life. Sure, sometimes you have days with mulligan bonanza and manascrews, it happens.

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It also may be that you are trying to jam in cards that cost 1WW, 2GG, 3RG, 4RR, GW, and RR all into the same deck and maybe it's not all the problem of MTGO that you got two forests for your double green spells, a plains a mountain, and couldn't play your 1WW and RR spells.

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I understand your thought, but no.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
an orc linked an article..

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This could be the beginning of a good joke!

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Originally posted by Pail42:
Anybody got a fun uncommon or bulk rare suggestion to build a deck around? I'm stuck in a rut. Every deck I start to brainstorm lately always seems to end up wanting 4x Blood Artist and 4x Lingering Souls, but I don't have a playset of either. Poop.

I've noticed that my sleeved lands pick up more gunk than my other cards. Probably because I handle them so often tapping and untapping.

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Try Mill. Haunting Echoes. It's fun!

__________________
/Thunder in the wind/No rain/Peace mourns its passing/

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I shuffle enough in real life. I usually didide the deck like this at home:
S L S S L S L S S L S L S S L etc. Then there are usually 2 lands left at the end, which I randomly put in there. ...I lay the cards out in front of me facedown making 6 piles, so 10 rounds exactly.

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these actions do not make your deck random. obviously, infact, the first one makes it NOT random. the 2nd one only permutes the deck (moves card X to known location Y) and should really not be done either. after '2 shuffles', your deck is NOT sufficiently random. shuffle more, pile less, weave NEVER.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
I shuffle enough in real life. I usually didide the deck like this at home:
S L S S L S L S S L S L S S L etc. Then there are usually 2 lands left at the end, which I randomly put in there. WI then shuffle twice, and when I get to the tournament I lay the cards out in front of me facedown making 6 piles, so 10 rounds exactly. I then shuffle two or 3 times more and that's it. The laying out part and shuffling, I do this after every match/leg I play.

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as mentioned, your deck isn't really randomized at this point. You're essentially stacking your deck, but slightly randomized so as to not ever get caught.

I do pile shuffle, but this is mostly due to alleviate sticky sleeve issues and count my deck. I do it only once, then I split the deck in two and push the halves together. Since the top and/or bottom don't get changed I do this 10ish times. You should be able to start with a completely sorted deck and after shuffling not know that it was sorted prior to shuffling; there should be some land pockets, some spell pockets, some of the same cards should be together, other cards should be an average distance apart, etc.

For practical purposes, after a search effect the deck should still be somewhat random, then the purpose of shuffling becomes to randomize the deck enough so you don't know where the cards you just saw are located rather then to fully randomize the deck. Find whatever you're looking for, then giving it just a quick two or three shuffles at this point seems acceptable.

When I'm paying attention, and not shooting the shot with my opponent between games, I riffle seven times. I forget where I read that seven was optimal. If my deck can't win fairly, I'd rather not win.

When I don't think my opponent has sufficiently randomized his or her deck, I casually bring up the seven riffle thing while I shuffle their deck, just to let them know if they didn't. Not trying to be a dick, just helpful.

We had an issue a while ago with someone double-nickeling. When a player that knew what to look for noticed it, he had to call me over because the "offender" refused to let him shuffle, and got all defensive about it. I don't think he was actually being shady, but he could have been. He ended up asking me to shuffle instead of the opponent, which I was ok with.

Anybody who does matrix transformations knows how easily they can be undone, if the operation is as simple as riffling. Riffle shuffling can be undone by simple pile shuffling. Two perfect riffles can be undone by piling into four piles and so on. Naturally it gets too complicated for pregame shuffling after four riffles and errors creap into the process pretty fast.

Piling the deck into any number of piles is never counted as shuffling, as there are algorithms for unscrambling the piles and if the deck was sorted you can tell where the cards are in the piles. Then side shuffle, and you can have the top part of the deck in the exact sequense you want. Also it's easy to get four copies of sideboard card into different quarters of the deck, so there will be a larger chance of drawing one in the early game.

Naturally good sleight of hand artists can fake shuffling and manipulate the cards in other ways, so the best way is to always shuffle your opponents deck. Never rely on just cutting your opponents deck, as it's easy to undo and if he has manaweaved, cutting does not help.

Also don't pile shuffle your opponents deck into three piles, if you suspect mana weaving. Just let the judge know and let them handle it. Piling weavers into no lands/all lands is cheating, and knowingly cheating. Meaning a fast DQ and a year long break from tournaments.

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Originally posted by thror:
these actions do not make your deck random. obviously, infact, the first one makes it NOT random. the 2nd one only permutes the deck (moves card X to known location Y) and should really not be done either.

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This might apply to the first game I'm playing. I do shuffle a lot after I make the 6 piles (maybe 6-10 times). After the first leg of the first match, I scoop up the cards, shuffle 3-4 times, make 6 piles, then shuffle 6-10 times again.

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Originally posted by caquaa:
as mentioned, your deck isn't really randomized at this point. You're essentially stacking your deck, but slightly randomized so as to not ever get caught.
I do pile shuffle, but this is mostly due to alleviate sticky sleeve issues and count my deck.[b][quote]

Exactly about the sticky sleeves thing. When you have 2 groups of cards and shuffle them together, there is a large chance that groups of cards will blend together, creating land pockets or non-land pockets. That is why I, with face down cards, stack it. I don't check or remember the order of my cards so I don't know what card is going where, I'm no cheat or anything. Hell, I don't even remember what I had for dinner last night.

[b][quote]..then I split the deck in two and push the halves together.

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I can't do that **** (EDIT: other word for poop). My deck always flies over the place when I try that.

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Since the top and/or bottom don't get changed I do this 10ish times. You should be able to start with a completely sorted deck and after shuffling not know that it was sorted prior to shuffling; there should be some land pockets, some spell pockets, some of the same cards should be together, other cards should be an average distance apart, etc.

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So far, this is the exact result of how I do it.

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You did point out exactly why I always shuffle my opponents decks at tournaments as well.Never trust your opponent to completely randomize their own deck. They even may believe they are doing so, but in reality they don't. Give it quite a few good shuffles to be on the safe side. I do find it highly amusing when we both present decks and my opponent quickly cuts my deck, I pick their deck up and start shuffling, then my opponent grabs mine to shuffle it only because I shuffled theirs.

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In drafts, I never shuffle unless my opponent hardly shuffles at all.
In constructed events, I always cut and shuffle. As does everyone else by the way.

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Originally posted by Default User:
Five optimal shuffles is statistically enough to get a deck of 52 cards into random permutation. Since manual shuffling is never optimal, DCI has agreed that seven is a good number. Also perfect riffle shuffling (1,2,1,2,1,2...) is not shuffling, unless some random effect is introduced.

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Have these calculations taken into account that decks could have sticky sleeves and (groups of) cards could cluster together? Most sleeves are quite adhesive, at least, those around here. Unless they're brand new, then all it takes is 1 shuffle and the next thing you know you find yourself sprawling over the floor trying to collect your deck from everywhere.

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Also it's easy to get four copies of sideboard card into different quarters of the deck, so there will be a larger chance of drawing one in the early game.

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*puts on Ace Ventura voice*
Rea-ea-eally??
PM me. We should talk.

On a whole different note, I just won my first Online tournament! Hell yeah!! Black/White Exalted for the win!
I even won a mirror matchup and overcame a mulligan (yep!) in the finals!

computer shuffling rules .

Who tha man?!

__________________
/Thunder in the wind/No rain/Peace mourns its passing/

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Originally posted by Demilio:
If your list has the same cards in your wants and your haves I am moving on to the next list. If your list has cards in your haves that say *decked* I am moving on to the next list. Just sayin

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Welcome to the problem with trading on MOTL. Hence why I only deal with the Sales forums.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals
MOTL's Pro-Tour Winner 2007-2009
Tower Magic Facebook

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Originally posted by Demilio:
If your list has the same cards in your wants and your haves I am moving on to the next list. If your list has cards in your haves that say *decked* I am moving on to the next list. Just sayin

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Never understood the same cards on Haves as Wants, the decked part or the this isn't for trade, etc bit I hate and do skip myself.

The first however could simply be, sure I have 4x, I don't need more, but assuming you have nothing else I need, I could trade for more.

It normally saves me time, because most of the haves list is doo-doo and they put their only good cards there. The entire list is normally disorganized and bulk, the little extra time they put in listing their good cards helps you.

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Originally posted by choco man:
I don't mind the "decked" section or similarly the VHTG labels.

It normally saves me time, because most of the haves list is doo-doo and they put their only good cards there. The entire list is normally disorganized and bulk, the little extra time they put in listing their good cards helps you.

I just trade and make offers as if they weren't even there.

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I stop cause I ran into to many I valued my decked stuff at 2-3x market...

otherwise yea, I could see your point.

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Welcome to the problem with trading on MOTL. Hence why I only deal with the Sales forums.

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I go in and out of trading as my many hobbies fight for attention. However, I recently noticed a few posts like this and was wondering what the deal was.

Do some see this site as being soured? What other sites are you trading on?

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
I stop cause I ran into to many I valued my decked stuff at 2-3x market...

otherwise yea, I could see your point.

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well, even fair offers made on lists that don't have "decked" sections are a shot in the dark.

so you do what you can do.

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Originally posted by choco man:
well, even fair offers made on lists that don't have "decked" sections are a shot in the dark.

so you do what you can do.

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Fair enough....why I haven't kept a H/W list up in a while, just make offers when I see stuff...

Sometimes I hear back, most times I don't.

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Originally posted by Demilio:
If your list has the same cards in your wants and your haves I am moving on to the next list. If your list has cards in your haves that say *decked* I am moving on to the next list. Just sayin

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I agree with having same cards on have want lists, but it realyl does depend on the card. Some cards people and have a ton of because it's trade bait.

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Originally posted by dputz:
I didn't get my soda yet.

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Originally posted by choco man:
which soda do you prefer?

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I'm a Sun Drop kinda guy!

http://i.imgur.com/A9fgeW8.png

Seen a lot more of this over the last week, mostly newer members.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
What's with the sudden influx of people expecting to sell things in T/A at SCG (AKA Retail) Prices?

Seen a lot more of this over the last week, mostly newer members.

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It's just that - newer members. The market dynamics of supply and demand should make themselves evident when they don't get any offers.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
It's just that - newer members. The market dynamics of supply and demand should make themselves evident when they don't get any offers.

On that note - Anyone else notice a TON of new members in general? Two thirds of my last 10 trades have been with new guys.

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Yea, I have seen a abundance of newer members.

EDIT: Also seeing a influx of people who seem to want to play dealer, but don't know what it actually entails.

and in other news, no good deed unpunished...lol people these days...

~MM

__________________
Blah, blah, blah werewolf. Smackity-smack not a werewolf. Suspicious of this fruit loop.
My vote this round will be for Player X.

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Originally posted by Drexus:
related to sodas and funny at the same time... double win

http://i.imgur.com/A9fgeW8.png

"The best opening hand in magic"

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LOL nice!