quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffycow:
OMG, I stay away from the forum for less than 24 hrs and I am already a light-year behind on the dumping spree

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneofchaos:
What Dumping spree?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CrazyBones:
Not sure how reliable this site is

---

Can't speak to each card specifically but mythicspoiler has always been accurate for me so far the last couple sets. The site looks great and they seem to be on the ball, putting up spoilers immediately

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
A company making money off of a popular product while also supporting a format that needs better staple availability is now a scam? God forbid they profit while answering the needs of the playerbase. WOTC doesn't need to hand out gifts to the masses.

---

I didn't say scam, calm down. What i responded to is that you said MM is ENTIRELY for card availability.
The most expensive cards at mythic rarity in a small print run is not going to significantly impact availability.
I understand they don't want to saturate the market, but if it was ENTIRELY for availability it would be a more liberal print run, and i think a tad cheaper and something like Tarm wouldn't be mythic. They could still make a lot of money and do more for the players/format.
They are making it rarer and mysterious so it's the biggest cash cow possible, then after drawing in more players to modern they will probably start coming out with a lot more modern stuff in greater quantities after they 'figured out' the proper quantities to introduce to the market.
I didn't say scam, but yes they clearly are not doing it ENTIRELY out of noble intentions to stimulate the availability. It's an enormous cash cow to them and (as JayC said) the cost to draft/purchase is prohibitive and a far cry from having any real change to the market, long term.

__________________
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, and other vampire females oddities (crimp miscut misprint sign testprint alters etc)

foil
Tarmogoyf

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
A company making money off of a popular product while also supporting a format that needs better staple availability is now a scam? God forbid they profit while answering the needs of the playerbase. WOTC doesn't need to hand out gifts to the masses.

---

LOL right? People are always crying about how WoTC never prints them money staples. I guess there will always be crying, but holy crap. You can open a $100 card in your pack. Enjoy it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilikuS:
LOL right? People are always crying about how WoTC never prints them money staples. I guess there will always be crying, but holy crap. You can open a $100 card in your pack. Enjoy it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by gaeacradle:
Don't you know people just want free stuff for themselves, but not for other people, so their free cards will still be valuable.

---

Man, Wizards has provided so much free money to collectors and players over the years with the way they've run things. There's plenty for everyone. Modern will continue to make random cards you had lying around skyrocket in price. Now that they're pushing it this summer, it'll be even better.

So now you've got EDH driving up casual cards, Legacy making things awesome, Modern doing the same, and Standard. Virtually every playable card is worth something because there's a format to play it in.

I'm sorry Sovarius, I guess I just never understood why people get upset about some cards in a format being super valuable. Building a deck always costs some money, because you can't play with sub par cards, but you can always play something other than the most expensive deck.

The alternative seems to be the way they deal with Yu Gi Oh cards, which I'm not too familiar with, but apparently they just print "staples" at common and make their value crap. Which is kind of nice on one hand, but from a perspective of the longevity of the game, or the cost of your investment it's turrible. Yeah your staples are cheap, but not at the time you need them. So you're spending for cards that you know will become worthless later on. Essentially wasting money.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sovarius:
Can't speak to each card specifically but mythicspoiler has always been accurate for me so far the last couple sets. The site looks great and they seem to be on the ball, putting up spoilers immediately

I didn't say scam, calm down. What i responded to is that you said MM is ENTIRELY for card availability.
The most expensive cards at mythic rarity in a small print run is not going to significantly impact availability.
I understand they don't want to saturate the market, but if it was ENTIRELY for availability it would be a more liberal print run, and i think a tad cheaper and something like Tarm wouldn't be mythic. They could still make a lot of money and do more for the players/format.
They are making it rarer and mysterious so it's the biggest cash cow possible, then after drawing in more players to modern they will probably start coming out with a lot more modern stuff in greater quantities after they 'figured out' the proper quantities to introduce to the market.
I didn't say scam, but yes they clearly are not doing it ENTIRELY out of noble intentions to stimulate the availability. It's an enormous cash cow to them and (as JayC said) the cost to draft/purchase is prohibitive and a far cry from having any real change to the market, long term.

---

Right, you said "almost like a scam". It's like almost insulting someone, but not really because you said "almost"...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
Regardless, I suggest you actually read the original announcement by Forscythe on MM, and why they aren't being more liberal with the size of the set, namely the backlash that was caused by the print run of Chronicles, and what that did to the collectible nature of some Legends and Arabian Nights cards.

---

Link? I'd like to read it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CrazyBones:
Link? I'd like to read it.

---

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/218

EDIT - For the ultra-lazy, here's the relevant part about chronicles -

There will be inevitable comparisons of this set to Chronicles, a much-maligned release from 1995 that flooded the market with reprints of highly sought-after cards from Magic's first few expansions. The outrage from collectors with regards to that set led to the creation of the Reserved List, and our hands are still tied from the effects of those compounded mistakes 17 years later.

Chronicles was brought up internally time and time again as Modern Masters evolved. Our R&D and Brand teams have spent many hours contemplating what Chronicles was trying to accomplish and where it went wrong. I ultimately feel that its biggest sin was that it did not respect people's existing collections—a sin we have no intention of repeating.

A glance at print run numbers available in the public domain shows that Chronicles likely increased the number of some cards in existence by a factor of ten or more! Cards that were rare and highly collectible were suddenly ubiquitous. The error was one of scale, and while I understand what the people working here at the time were trying to accomplish, in retrospect it was handled badly. Granted, they were adding their cards to what was then Type 2 (now Standard) and we are not, but I have to think there was a better way for them to solve the problem.

We won't make that mistake again. We don't want to turn cards from scarce to abundant in the blink of an eye, but we do want to alter the availability by a matter of degrees, all with the goal of growing the reach of the Modern format. Ideally, over time, any short-term drop in desirability of older cards you may own will be recouped as more players enter the format. I can't say it enough: our print run is very small, especially compared to what we're making for our current headliner sets like Return to Ravnica. We're playing in a very delicate space, and we know that, but the promise of the Modern format was that we would address card availability issues, and we are focused on figuring out the best way to do that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thanos:
Kinda disappointed most of the cards recently spoiled are the old art and not new.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flam flawless:
Stop whining.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
Right, you said "almost like a scam". It's like almost insulting someone, but not really because you said "almost"...

---

Don't use quote marks at me when you are not even quoting me. I never used the words 'almost' or 'like', but my bad i didn't make it clear that i don't think it's a scam. I was disagreeing with whomever said that and 'rough term' was pretty vague.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
Regardless, I suggest you actually read the original announcement by Forscythe on MM, and why they aren't being more liberal

---

I suggest you actually read my post, particularly the part where i said i understand they don't want to saturate the market. I obviously read the article, disagreeing doesn't make me stupid.

I don't have a major issue with Masters on the whole, but i don't think my concerns are unfounded. It's fine they want to make money. But i find it hard to have so much faith i would say they ENTIRELY designed this to add copies of modern staples.

I find high prices to be prohibitive to gaining new players to the format. The game is indeed in a golden age, and sure you are whiner if you complain someone's deck costs too much, but it makes it unattractive to new players.
And is also quite a hurdle if you want half a decent deck in legacy or vintage. Well, the latter probably wouldn't even be a big thing anyway. So, you got Legacy 'making things awesome' but for a good few of those cards, most obviously duals, they continue to be harder to get a hold of. We probably aren't seeing any set or FTV specific to legacy in any meaningful shape any time soon, either.

I'm still excited for it though, like whomever said, the value from the uncommon slots should be great and will be the main factor in getting beginners on their feet in the Modern world. For the $10 rares i hope we are seeing like $5 after a while

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thanos:
Kinda disappointed most of the cards recently spoiled are the old art and not new.

---

Same here, a LOT of the same art. But, did you see the new art for swords of LS/FI in the style of the SOM block swords by Rahn?

__________________
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, and other vampire females oddities (crimp miscut misprint sign testprint alters etc)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sovarius:
Same here, a LOT of the same art. But, did you see the new art for swords of LS/FI in the style of the SOM block swords by Rahn?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by choco man:
New art...or new new art? I think Kiki-Jikki was spoiled with the new art. Glad they kept the old art for Elspeth and
Progenitus.

So Vedalken Shackles is mythic and new art according to the spoiled picture?

---

What picture was spoiled where?
It's not on wizards image gallery yet, but MythicSpoiler has Shackles appearing as a rare

__________________
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, and other vampire females oddities (crimp miscut misprint sign testprint alters etc)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sovarius:
Don't use quote marks at me when you are not even quoting me. I never used the words 'almost' or 'like', but my bad i didn't make it clear that i don't think it's a scam. I was disagreeing with whomever said that and 'rough term' was pretty vague.

I suggest you actually read my post, particularly the part where i said i understand they don't want to saturate the market. I obviously read the article, disagreeing doesn't make me stupid.

I don't have a major issue with Masters on the whole, but i don't think my concerns are unfounded. It's fine they want to make money. But i find it hard to have so much faith i would say they ENTIRELY designed this to add copies of modern staples.

I find high prices to be prohibitive to gaining new players to the format. The game is indeed in a golden age, and sure you are whiner if you complain someone's deck costs too much, but it makes it unattractive to new players.
And is also quite a hurdle if you want half a decent deck in legacy or vintage. Well, the latter probably wouldn't even be a big thing anyway. So, you got Legacy 'making things awesome' but for a good few of those cards, most obviously duals, they continue to be harder to get a hold of. We probably aren't seeing any set or FTV specific to legacy in any meaningful shape any time soon, either.

I'm still excited for it though, like whomever said, the value from the uncommon slots should be great and will be the main factor in getting beginners on their feet in the Modern world. For the $10 rares i hope we are seeing like $5 after a while

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sovarius:
What picture was spoiled where?
It's not on wizards image gallery yet, but MythicSpoiler has Shackles appearing as a rare

---

I'm looking at the picture with the 13 mythic rares on it. Missing one spot for Ryusei and then there's a booster pack wrapper on the bottom row.

The reason I'm not too keen on a product like modern masters is that I'm not going to really get to play it.

I love playing magic and I like to use their products. I just dislike when I don't get to use the product. MSRP for a pack is suppose to be what, 6-7? If I'm able to get some at that price cool, but I'm not going to be dropping 12-15 on a pack of cards(which I'm thinking will be the price).

Saying all of this clearly illustrates this product is not for me. That's the part I don't like about it. Before anyone jumps down my throat about how entitled I feel I am, I don't.

WOTC doesn't owe me anything, but I can still dislike-disagree with them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by choco man:
I'm looking at the picture with the 13 mythic rares on it. Missing one spot for Ryusei and then there's a booster pack wrapper on the bottom row.

Vedalken Shackles is very good in cube (which MM draft is going to be like?), so making shackles a mythic seems reasonable to me. I'm just guessing that the art of that wrapper is Shackles and that it's new art.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcelraca:
I love playing magic and I like to use their products. I just dislike when I don't get to use the product. MSRP for a pack is suppose to be what, 6-7? If I'm able to get some at that price cool, but I'm not going to be dropping 12-15 on a pack of cards(which I'm thinking will be the price).

---

i dont think you'll have any trouble getting a few packs at MSRP. even with the current spoiler, there are a lot of 'misses' at rare/mythic.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
<@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeckk:
I don't know how you can assert that a special set designed entirely to add more copies of modern staples to the market to be a scam.

---

Just looking at the current spoilers there are a lot of cards that aren't modern staples. Jugan, Ryusei, Verdeloth, Sarkhan Vol? They seem to be doing better on the common/uncommon front, but if Wizard's only goal with this set was to improve card availability they could have just gone to a list of the most popular (or expensive) cards in modern and printed the first 229 cards that are not basic lands.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pail42:
Just looking at the current spoilers there are a lot of cards that aren't modern staples. Jugan, Ryusei, Verdeloth, Sarkhan Vol? They seem to be doing better on the common/uncommon front, but if Wizard's only goal with this set was to improve card availability they could have just gone to a list of the most popular (or expensive) cards in modern and printed the first 229 cards that are not basic lands.

There are obviously other design decisions behind MM than just making expensive and/or popular cards available to more people.

---