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Originally posted by Vegas10:
One store in my area is selling for $17.50 a pack, I didn't even bother asking Box prices I hung up, since I knew at least 2 other stores charging less ( 1 at $250 box, other $12.50 a pack).

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I don't see why it's bad for them (LGSs) to try and make money. In fact they would be losing profit if they sold at MSRP. Very much like Commander's Arsenal and FTV items. Boxes sell out at 250 on eBay. Even after fees you're looking at like $225... plus the EV of this set is just great. Yes you're not guaranteed anything and it's very easy to be disappointed, but I did 3 drafts at $25 and even though two of those drafts ended up with total crap, and I went 2-1 all three drafts and didn't win anything, I STILL walked away with about $75-80 worth of stuff. eBay value.

I can be fine with capitalism (I'm a business manager, I'd better be fine with capitalism) but there's still a certain level of morality surrounding corporate decisions. Most CEOs may score very high as sociopaths, but they don't all do, and you can still make reasonable profit without resorting to price gouging.

They state things like "We don't care about the secondary market" and then sell limited print items at a fixed cost price to suppliers, who then juice up the price and just pocket a ton of extra money.

If WOTC put ANY effort AT ALL into monitoring the secondary market, and adjusted their production accordingly, there's no reason at all that fair market value shouldn't match the MSRP. That's how MSRP is theoretically generated in the first place. They take production and shipping costs, build in the industry standard markup, and that's what they set MSRP at.

Production volume should be similar. Analysis of the market, demand for the product, and an understanding of past performance should allow them to set production at an amount ideally in the range of about 80% of what they expect the demand to be. They are protected a little by an unexpected flop by not producing to 100% of anticipated demand, and it easily opens the door for later print runs to make up for the shortfall without coming in at production numbers so low that they'd be sold out in an hour at MSRP.

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Originally posted by flam flawless:
Selling and actually selling them are 2 different stories. 17.50/pack is amazing.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
stuff

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But here is the problem that Wizards face.

1) Short-printing and see stores trying to get as much as they can. Some customers will be unhappy that they can't afford (or profit of) the products, or complain about the ethics of store owners.
OR
2) Over-printing and see the secondary market tank. With MM, any hint of it being over-printed will cause market confidence to evaporate. If this happens, the consequences are a LOT WORSE than a few unhappy people.

While I think Wizards is being TOO conservative with the print run of MM (another 10% or 15% increase in products won't hurt the market), I do agree with their approach. Better to be conservative with something like this than causing another mass exodus like the debacle with Chronicles. And this time, the secondary market doesn't have a reserved list to protect the values of Modern staples.

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2) Over-printing and see the secondary market tank.

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They've explicitly stated that outside the reserve list, they don't really consider the secondary market when creating or distributing content. And we've seen plenty of indication that a number of people at Wizards aren't even happy about the reserve list.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
The proportion of cards that see constructed play in MM is easily more than 100% larger than a regular standard set. Given that MSRP for a regular standard set booster is $4, and MM is around $10-12, you are still getting a better deal than most set releases.

Secondly, find better cards to bash than Crushers or Figure of Destiny. Crusher is extremely under-rated in modern, and see play in both legacy/modern aggro loam.

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Getting crusher in MM pack still isn't worth anything along with some other bulk rares in the set

__________________
Term Respect Is Used To Often,Get A Free Token Card In Every Trade!

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Originally posted by flavor_of_the_weak:
Getting crusher in MM pack still isn't worth anything along with some other bulk rares in the set

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Welcome to every magic set ever printed? Seriously, you sound ignorant when you complain that a super small sample size resulted in you getting below EV. It happens. The set is still amazing in terms of drafting, and it's certainly served it's purpose of getting people more interested in modern cards.

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Originally posted by Devonin:
Taking advantage of a supply shortage to gouge on prices is both capitalism and legal, but it's still disgusting.

I can be fine with capitalism (I'm a business manager, I'd better be fine with capitalism) but there's still a certain level of morality surrounding corporate decisions. Most CEOs may score very high as sociopaths, but they don't all do, and you can still make reasonable profit without resorting to price gouging.

At 6.99/pack, businesses are still making what the supplier considers a fair profit over their cost price. And that's a profit margin that they're all provably okay with, since they pretty much only charge MSRP for virtually every other product they sell. To then slap an additional 100% markup on it just because they know they have their hands on limited supply high-demand products is crappy. It makes me want to stop giving them my business.

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Good luck with that. WotC has a ton of respect for brick-and-mortar stores, largely because the business model for most of these stores involves being open 7 days a week for card game players to make use of their facilities, for free, on top of being the best logistical choice for people to come in and play, trade, and socialize for a host of hobbies.

So when some of them go over MSRP on a limited print-run item, the argument doesn't hold a lot of water. MM is as much of a reward to shop owners as it is for players, quite similar to the FTV products.

It's okay. Point one is that it's a hugely amazing format to play. I drafted UR storm and almost got first. Point two is that it was a $32 draft where I pulled a Pulse and nothing else (except a few cool tokens and foils for my all-commons cube). Way too expensive even if that's a fair price, etc.

Set feels actually less bomby than more recent sets since removal is plentiful. And the bombs don't have hexproof. Heck, even the shatter varient they went with has other uses than to destroy target sword of fire and ice.

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Originally posted by dwiz:
This format boils down to play Bonesplitter turn one or lose. Sort of kidding, but not really. Anybody else experience this? Of course, windmill slamming a sword changes things, but everybody plays their BS.

I had a BS plus 2 swords in sealed (all packs were mixed up from many boxes then distributed to 42 players). To quote douchey youth, **** was cray.

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Not really. Just block it, blow up the guy with the sword, or whatever else. I got two epocracite and they were handy for blocking random 2-mana dorks holding splitter until I got my big dudes.

Moldervine was a bigger problem but thankfully I had a million ways to bounce a dude.

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Originally posted by dwiz:
Turn 1 court homonculous, turn two splitter is insane. By the time they catch up, they're at 10 and you're dropping bombs. The format can be quite slow. Sadly, besides the GP I don't forsee drafting/playing sealed with it any further.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Yeah, but god hands are always insane.

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Originally posted by broiler1977:
If you were to guesstimate, what is the avg cracked pack value of MM?

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Ignoring foil goyf? Probably $2. Gofy skews the 'average', until enough MM is cracked.

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Originally posted by HamtaroX19:
Why is everyone opening foil goyf loll?

Just saying

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With the store credit, my 2nd entry was $15. I cracked KotR, Goyf, and Adakar Valkyrie, won r1, dropped, sold the goyf and went home up ~$30 in cash for the day + the Kiki/Shackles/KotR/Valk/assorted other rares. It was a good time.

The store was charging ~$320 for a box, a friend wanted a box and I told him to just get it on ebay and save $70+. He went against my advice. Opened the box right in front of me:

Foil goyf
2 bob
+ who cares

I need luck like that