When we declare our votes in the open we usually give a path to the opposing team to place their votes accordingly during the lynch phase...

I say we still list our suspicions in no particular order and voice our opinions, but not declare our vote for the first round. The first round is always random choices. So it really wouldnt hurt us...I have heard some people bring this up and think it could be plausible for the first round.

Pro...

We hang a Wolf

Con...

We hang one of our own, We possibly would have done this with a declared vote anyways.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't say that the kill gives us no information, but it sure as heck doesn't give us much. All I can glean from this is that at least one of the wolves has been playing long enough (read: one game) with PD to know that he's the most vocal player. To my knowledge, the only players that wouldn't know this are:

randon
Thoughts of Lepers

Although, this assumes that they haven't been lurking to read the other threads. If they have been, well, then all players present know that PD was a big player.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
Aw, we lost the Angel

I don't really have any suspicions right now. But I am NOT comfortable lashing out at silents from the get-go. That was PD's big push last game, to make sure everyone committed out loud, and he was a hairy. I think everyone SHOULD be involved in discussions and suspicions, but I agree with keeping our actual votes hidden at least for the first couple rounds, to see if we can snag the wolves grouping up to kill people.

---

The data (and myself) beg to differ. Simply because he was a wolf does not make the observation invalid. The strongest example is Caitiri. Last round he was a wolf, and he stayed silent. And guess what? He did not garner a single vote the entire game. Communication in this game is key.

quote:

---

Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
Heh. Maybe PD can try his new game out some other time. It's true that PD established himself as one of the strong suits in this game. That narrows possible suspects down to about everyone who has at least watched a round of WW since he's been a part of them. Given that this kill likely carried the objective of stifling town discussion, I vote we go for a silent/poster without substance player first. We can figure out who this should be tomorrow if anyone else is on board.

---

I disagree. It doesn't nessecarily follow that the motivation for a PD kill is as straightforward as that (although it is a possibility). In fact, if the goal were to stifle town discussion, I don't think it's a sign per se that quiet players have the most to gain from that- rather it seems it would be the opposite. The more the thread has activity, the more the silent players are overlooked. If the talkative players are gone, everyone's on equal footing; advantage lost. Stifling discussion to me looks like something a smart wolf would do- they must have been watching how things are going in Mafia and realized if they cut out the dialogue, the game will skate by. Last game Chuck, Ross, and I had a similar strategy- we wanted to knock out the really good players to make the populace easier to steer one way or the other.
However.
It's still the first round, we have many lynches ahead of us. Although I don't agree with your analysis, you can consider me to be on board for lynching a quiet player this round. At best we get lucky and nab a wolf and at worst (well, assuming we don't lynch the seer which would really suck) we eliminate a cit who's going to be nonparticipatory for the rest of the game.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
I wanna suggest we try something for the first round...

When we declare our votes in the open we usually give a path to the opposing team to place their votes accordingly during the lynch phase...

I say we still list our suspicions in no particular order and voice our opinions, but not declare our vote for the first round. The first round is always random choices. So it really wouldnt hurt us...I have heard some people bring this up and think it could be plausible for the first round.

Pro...

We hang a Wolf

Con...

We hang one of our own, We possibly would have done this with a declared vote anyways.

Thoughts?

---

I'm not entirely sold on this right now. Nondeclarations from cits in the early rounds isn't as much of a threat to a wolf as it is in the later rounds. Think about it. When (for the sake of example) two cits both decide to vote to lynch player X but don't declare, if it's late in the game, there is a *much* higher possibility of them lynching a wolf simply due to the smaller vote pool. In the early rounds? Not so much. In fact, pile analysis (by none other than Bernek [hi bernek?]) is what did me in last round. I'm not good enough at math to definitively say whether declaration or nondeclaration piles are better to find wolves in (Chuck would have been good to have on call for that... ), so in short I'll say I'm "meh" on the idea.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

The main reason for this suspicion is that there is always a wolf who likes to poke his head in the early discussion.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
Voting for Kood.

Thanks,
Jazaray

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
I feel that one of these players may be a wolf.

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

The main reason for this suspicion is that there is always a wolf who likes to poke his head in the early discussion.

---

Seems obv. Has this joke been beaten into the ground yet?

__________________
Originally posted by pyr0ma5ta:
When in doubt, always go with the mom joke. It's classy, and you always win. There can be no comeback.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Battle_of_Twits:
Seems obv. Has this joke been beaten into the ground yet?

---

Average Lynch Time: 1.5 rounds

IDK where I stand with my thoughts yet. I do agree that there has already been a wolf posting now all there is left to do is read them and see which one doesn't sit right with me.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Our_Benefactors:
Do you have a reason for this? Or do you go with Amala's pick R1 every game?

---

Hey, gotta stay with my baby girl. I go with Amala's pick every round until I find someone I think is suspicious. So, I'll be voting for kood every round until someone else pops up on my radar. Sorry kood!

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

As I said before I feel the following 7 players are the most suspicious:

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

Now for my game winning strategy based off of PD's Data from previous rounds. I propose the following.

Players voting Thoughts of Lepers :
randon007
Jazaray
Liq
AlmasterGM
Bernek77

Players voting for Liq :
BernieB
koodkkslis
Our_Benefactors
revenger

What this does is not allow the Wolves to control us. I will suggest a 5/4 Staggered Vote for the next round. For Round 3 and 4, I suggest a 4/3 Staggered Vote.

1) If any player disrupts the plan, then that player is a wolf.

By either leaving the 5 pile or making the 4 pile larger or suggesting a 3rd pile equal or greater than the 5 pile, suggest that that player is looking to entrap the Seer. The only players interested in finding the Seer are the Wolves.

2) Since we're not allowing a split vote we hide the Seer.

The Seer's presence is important since the Angel has been eliminated. This strategy allows the Seer to hide within the ranks making it harder for the Wolves to find.

3) The two voter piles are also likely to contain a wolf or two.

I am not suggesting that all 3 wolves are in the 7 player suspicion list I posted. In round 4, the players within these two piles should be closely looked at. Especially if a wolf is found to be in the suspicion list.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
I feel its now time unveil my PD Strategy : Staggered Voting.

As I said before I feel the following 7 players are the most suspicious:

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

Now for my game winning strategy based off of PD's Data from previous rounds. I propose the following.

Players voting Thoughts of Lepers :
randon007
Jazaray
Liq
AlmasterGM
Bernek77

Players voting for Liq :
BernieB
koodkkslis
Our_Benefactors
revenger

What this does is not allow the Wolves to control us. I will suggest a 5/4 Staggered Vote for the next round. For Round 3 and 4, I suggest a 4/3 Staggered Vote.

1) If any player disrupts the plan, then that player is a wolf.

By either leaving the 5 pile or making the 4 pile larger or suggesting a 3rd pile equal or greater than the 5 pile, suggest that that player is looking to entrap the Seer. The only players interested in finding the Seer are the Wolves.

2) Since we're not allowing a split vote we hide the Seer.

The Seer's presence is important since the Angel has been eliminated. This strategy allows the Seer to hide within the ranks making it harder for the Wolves to find.

3) The two voter piles are also likely to contain a wolf or two.

I am not suggesting that all 3 wolves are in the 7 player suspicion list I posted. In round 4, the players within these two piles should be closely looked at. Especially if a wolf is found to be in the suspicion list.

---

I really like this strategy, but how can we bag a wolf if doing it this way (of course that depends, I do not know if the new person playing could be a wolf, but I seriously doubt it.

Perhaps the first poster posting is a wolf, then that could be bugger (he posted first right after PD was killed.) And I do beleive that one of the above posters is a wolf, but I do not get that gut feeling (like I normally do) about anyone in particular this time. I was going to vote randomly, and see if I get lucky or something, but in the end, I decide not to.

I do not normally declare my vote, as imo it helps the wolves, I learned that last game, but in the end I gave my "suspicions" to much weight to go on, and in the end the wolves knew who I was voting for anyways.

With the loss of PD, I do not beleive we cannot win this still, although him being the angel does suck.

~Revenger

__________________
Need a 3rd party trade? Contact me at this email address.

Your 2008 Motl Siskel &/or Ebert award winner!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
I actually like that plan, (I say actually because it looks like it may get me lynched) assuming it's not against any rules. Who would I vote for under that proposed scenario?

---

Um, I do not think it really matters as long as it is not Liq or yourself. Then it would throw off the vote.

~Revenger

__________________
Need a 3rd party trade? Contact me at this email address.

Your 2008 Motl Siskel &/or Ebert award winner!

I'm not buying your conclusions. It doesn't make any sense to me. Please tell us your thought process.

And what good does it do us to have yourself on the block?

1) Liq, you posted right after us 7, which would seem to include yourself in the "people who say something early"

2) Last game PD led the whole game into voting who he wanted them to almost every round that counted. And he ended up a wolf. Why is it a good idea to let someone else tell us what to do again?

3) In your plan, am I not supposed to vote for anyone because you suspect me? Or are you trying to make my vote not matter?

quote:

---

Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
So... let me get this straight. In a list of 7 out of 16 total players, there is likely to be a wolf. Duh? Shall I list off 13 players and tell you that there is likely more than one wolf in it? List all 16 and tell you that all three wolves lurk within?

I'm not buying your conclusions. It doesn't make any sense to me. Please tell us your thought process.

And what good does it do us to have yourself on the block?

In my experience, anyone who tries to manipulate the entire game through a system has been a werewolf. Why should I not think you are one right now?

---

PD did this last game, so now I am thinking differently. The consensus plan if I recall.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? A good plan of Liq's or not to?

~Revenger

__________________
Need a 3rd party trade? Contact me at this email address.

Your 2008 Motl Siskel &/or Ebert award winner!

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
Like I said, I like it; provisionally, anyhow. (Although I should probably add I'm a cit, so it might be more fruitful to switch the bulk of the vote to someone else, and I'd take the other slot, but whatever). I'd at least be very interested to see how the votes go if everyone does agree on this. And anyway, I have no real suspicions as of yet, so why not try it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
I feel its now time unveil my PD Strategy : Staggered Voting.

As I said before I feel the following 7 players are the most suspicious:

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

Now for my game winning strategy based off of PD's Data from previous rounds. I propose the following.

Players voting Thoughts of Lepers :
randon007
Jazaray
Liq
AlmasterGM
Bernek77

Players voting for Liq :
BernieB
koodkkslis
Our_Benefactors
revenger

What this does is not allow the Wolves to control us. I will suggest a 5/4 Staggered Vote for the next round. For Round 3 and 4, I suggest a 4/3 Staggered Vote.

1) If any player disrupts the plan, then that player is a wolf.

By either leaving the 5 pile or making the 4 pile larger or suggesting a 3rd pile equal or greater than the 5 pile, suggest that that player is looking to entrap the Seer. The only players interested in finding the Seer are the Wolves.

2) Since we're not allowing a split vote we hide the Seer.

The Seer's presence is important since the Angel has been eliminated. This strategy allows the Seer to hide within the ranks making it harder for the Wolves to find.

3) The two voter piles are also likely to contain a wolf or two.

I am not suggesting that all 3 wolves are in the 7 player suspicion list I posted. In round 4, the players within these two piles should be closely looked at. Especially if a wolf is found to be in the suspicion list.

---

OK Liq I see what you are trying to get at , but here is my question. What about the remaining villagers/wolves? This isn't like Mafia where we can just go to 2 piles from the beginning and go after the pile where someone doesn't get lynched. Wolves DO get a vote.

Now I am not saying that you are a wolf but why put yourself in the lesser pile is what I am curious about? And why not include others in this plan? What reasoning is behind this that can be concluded only including these people?

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
I actually like that plan, (I say actually because it looks like it may get me lynched) assuming it's not against any rules. Who would I vote for under that proposed scenario?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by revenger:
Um, I do not think it really matters as long as it is not Liq or yourself. Then it would throw off the vote.

---

Exactly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
I'm not buying your conclusions. It doesn't make any sense to me. Please tell us your thought process.

---

Its simple. I want to hide the Seer so that information can be gathered. In order to do that, we have to be willing to sacrifice 3 villagers for that information.

quote:

---

Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
And what good does it do us to have yourself on the block?

In my experience, anyone who tries to manipulate the entire game through a system has been a werewolf. Why should I not think you are one right now?

---

Every time I suggest a new strategy, I will put my name on the block. I have always been willing to die for the Seer.

As I said before, should we agree to this strategy and someone goes against it, then that player has "revealed" himself as a wolf.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
2 things:

1) Liq, you posted right after us 7, which would seem to include yourself in the "people who say something early"

2) Last game PD led the whole game into voting who he wanted them to almost every round that counted. And he ended up a wolf. Why is it a good idea to let someone else tell us what to do again?

3) In your plan, am I not supposed to vote for anyone because you suspect me? Or are you trying to make my vote not matter?

If you think this'll work, I'd be willing to try it for a few rounds, but it's gonna look real suspicious if you have us lynch 3 cits in a row.

---

1) I'm not an early poster. I watch and monitor. I've gotten fairly good at it.

2) This plan is to hide the Seer and allow him to gather information. If you feel that is a bad idea, then perhaps you should be on the block with me.

3) My plan calls for you to vote for whoever you wish for except for those one the blocks.

I'm not going to lie to you. I do think 3 villagers may get lynched. And I believe that may be necessary for information that the Seer will attain should he be successfully be hidden. If at Round 4 we do not have a Wolf, I will gladly put myself on the block to be killed. I'll even vote for myself.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

What if Thoughts is the seer? Or the next person you put on the block?

Also, I thought you don't LIKE it when people try to make it a game of math? Isn't that all your proposal is?

I'm sorry, but I'm with PGB on this one, it accomplishes nothing as far as I'm concerned, except for Liq getting to decide who we lynch. And frankly, I'm surprised that no one else (except pgb) seems to have a problem with that, when PD is ALWAYS accused of trying to lead us like sheep, even when he's not. This is BLATANTLY leading us and that's FINE because it's Liq? Hypocrites.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:

Its simple. I want to hide the Seer so that information can be gathered. In order to do that, we have to be willing to sacrifice 3 villagers for that information.

---

Scenario 1: You are a wolf. Obviously you are just gaming everyone if that is the case.

Scenario 2: The seer is among the 7 you listed. You put them up on the block to die and cause us a huge deficit.

Those are two huge giant flapping gaping flaws in your system. If we use it, the game can easily end before it begins. Why is your system better than conventional logic like I am using now?

Edit: Scenario 2 has been sarnath'd by Jaz.