No one seems to be down with this. I understand cuz we might have hung the Angel or Seer, but now, we have niether so....

I have my vote which will be revealed at the lynch

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

Here are some posts that have caught my eye since then:

quote:

---

Originally posted by randon:
Sorry been a little busy and I didn't realize the post count on this thread shot up so fast thought this was an old thread. Sorry.
As of right now I really don't have a clue as to who might be a wolf. I think I'm just going to go with what Liq said and vote for ToL.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by OurBenefactors:
Uh, when are signups for WW9?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwy:
No kiddin' pretty bold for the seer to suggest such a play. I am one to believe that the ww's KNEW the seer was not in the "The 7" To protect the seer and call out 7 others without knowing.. you had to be a ww or know something...

But I think the silent play for the next round is still an option.

Thoughts.

Post note: I voted for BoT because it was a jump on Jaz's vote for Kood. early in the round. No real evidence just suspicion, which may change as the game goes on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
Well, don't expect a brilliant rebuttal. I don't want to type that much. . I have decided to start using smilies in my posts to convey mood better despite the fact that I find them slightly distasteful . Also, I should explain that I am a very easy-going, laid-back guy, and nothing anyone could say to me on this site would cause me to 'lose my ****' as you put it, or snap at anyone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:

Here are some posts that have caught my eye since then:[QUOTE]Originally posted by randon:
Sorry been a little busy and I didn't realize the post count on this thread shot up so fast thought this was an old thread. Sorry.
As of right now I really don't have a clue as to who might be a wolf. I think I'm just going to go with what Liq said and vote for ToL.

---

Yes, and what's more interesting is how epically he failed to come up with an excuse for posting that doesn't reek of bull****. "Thought it was an old thread" my ass. You signed up here. Don't try and tell us you forgot the name of the thread.

quote:

---

Originally posted by OurBenefactors:
Uh, when are signups for WW9?

---

I agree it's suspicious, but with no behaviour or other data to compare it to it's practically useless anyway. On the one hand it's in line with OB's out-of-game posting style, on the other so was mine when I threw the confetti and I was a wolf. Really, my eye is on OB and revenger chiefly because of their voting for Liq- and OB's more so because of his immediate wagoning onto kood's empty idea of Liq scrying ToL. Kood's a smart player and now I'm doubting that that particular post of his was all at face value. O_B, if you're reading this: yes, I know you did not know Liq cannot seer R0. But that doesn't still excuse the immediate wagoning on what was a slim shot anyway if he had done so.

quote:

---

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fwy:
No kiddin' pretty bold for the seer to suggest such a play. I am one to believe that the ww's KNEW the seer was not in the "The 7" To protect the seer and call out 7 others without knowing.. you had to be a ww or know something...

But I think the silent play for the next round is still an option.

Thoughts.

Post note: I voted for BoT because it was a jump on Jaz's vote for Kood. early in the round. No real evidence just suspicion, which may change as the game goes on.

---

I don't know. Some people, like revenger and fwy, are hell-bent on not declaring their votes (and for the record, revenger, I figured out you had voted last game R4 for kood based in no part whatsoever on anything you had actually posted, so no, it's not a foolproof plan to not post at all). No amount of reasoning is going to change that, they'll just think it's a wolf trying to get them to reveal *sigh*...
However, it is worthy of note that fwy has done little else but push for everyone to hide their votes- and more interesting as well is that he played in mafia. He saw what happens in games where no one declares.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
Well, don't expect a brilliant rebuttal. I don't want to type that much. . I have decided to start using smilies in my posts to convey mood better despite the fact that I find them slightly distasteful . Also, I should explain that I am a very easy-going, laid-back guy, and nothing anyone could say to me on this site would cause me to 'lose my ****' as you put it, or snap at anyone.

---

I smell forced nonchalance. Also, your claim of "being an easygoing guy", I'm sorry to say, has about the same level of validity as someone emailing me for my help with a Nigerian bank account does- very, very little.

Also, you *did* lose your temper in your last post, whether you identify it as such or not.

quote:

---

Or, like I've repeatedly stated, like a citizen who thought that Liq had a good idea if everyone (minus wolves, of course) was on board.

---

Yes, you have repeatedly stated it. Many, many, many times. More than three times per post in fact (without any prompts).

quote:

---

Well, if there was someone who garnered more suspicion, in my eyes it would be more profitable for them to be in the 5-vote pile. (Seeing as how, like I said in that post, I AM a citizen. .) Of course I know that holds 0 weight to anyone but myself and 4 others, (MM and 3 wolves) but I felt I had to mention it.

How is this remotely a change in direction from what I have been stating? You suggested a means to check Liq for sure: I agreed knowing it was necessary from the posts before yours, since several people had expressed suspicion of Liq as a wolf. I just wanted people to agree on what I see/saw [] as a good system. (Obviously, no one figured Liq was the seer. Not even the wolves, I don't think. More on this on a later post)

And I have to go, so I will answer your last quote a little later tonight and post my suspicion list.

---

I hope you realize you've done little to improve your case.

...
As of now my vote is still undecided.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
A few things:
Fwy- everyone hiding does not nessecarily help. The wolves can just each pick their own obscure target. It may be worth an attempt, though.

---

Who would be hiding? All votes are revealed at the lynching...

quote:

---

Originally posted by PGB:
So in the game where we have minimal outside information, you want to remove the information within the game as well? oookay...

---

So far you are the main person who was aginst all theories or strategies thus far PGB...why is is that.

No one is down with the silent vote which would IMO reveal more then a voiced vote as the ww would only "pile on" or "single vote" around it depending on the situation. So it doesnt matter now.

We are guessing right now with no evidence. Why does that differ from a silent vote. When a vote is voiced, you hear why they are voting that way but only because others are voting the same way...

example:

Player A votes PGB on suspicion
Player B votes PGB also but say I agree with "A" blah blah blah...

but if we conceal our votes wolves cant do this....

you say what if we lynch a Villager??? We've done that in the last round already. what have we got to lose.

Thoughts.

Post note: I have placed my vote.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fwybwed:
Who would be hiding? All votes are revealed at the lynching...

---

But that doesn't help us beforehand. It doesn't matter, like I said nothing short of a death or physical dismemberment threat will convince you otherwise- anyone who takes the other stance is clearly a wolf trying to draw you out.

quote:

---

So far you are the main person who was aginst all theories or strategies thus far PGB...why is is that.

---

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but likely it's because so far there's been only two- one was utter ****, and the other is still not all upside.

quote:

---

We are guessing right now with no evidence. Why does that differ from a silent vote. When a vote is voiced, you hear why they are voting that way but only because others are voting the same way...

example:

Player A votes PGB on suspicion
Player B votes PGB also but say I agree with "A" blah blah blah...

but if we conceal our votes wolves cant do this....

---

WELL THEN WHY THE HELL WOULD WE STOP THEM?! One of the many tried-and-true indicators of wolfhood is tendency to wagon. What you're claiming is something bad is actually something good- it gives us piles, lets us figure out how the wolves are going to strategically place their votes, and even gives us a starting list of people to watch. You are really thinking this through badly, fwy. And I'm not so sure it's not deliberate.

quote:

---

you say what if we lynch a Villager??? We've done that in the last 2 rounds already. what have we got to lose.

---

This seems to be the game where people forget how to play it. First kood, then O_B, now you. We've lynched 1 person. ONE.

Last game I made slip-ups, too. Like declaring for chuck during night phase. I'm starting to think maybe that's another possible indicator of wolfhood.

quote:

---

Thoughts.

Post note: I have placed my vote.

I know who my vote is for...

---

Let me take a wild guess: Puregoblinboy.
I wasn't sure who my vote would be for (and still aren't), but dammit if you're not making my decision easier fwy.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

---

Originally posted by MasterWolf:
I agree that there is probably a wolf in the Liq pile. But I'm not sure which to vote for, so I am going to stick to my first round vote, Jaz. She didn't go along with the plan, and her lack of a vote for ToL was just as damning as a vote for Liq.

---

This post doesn't sit well with me. Jaz was not the only person that did not go through with the plan. Jaz, BernieB (sup Bernie), Kood and myself didn't.

Seeing now that Liq was the seer and GLE also was a villager, there is one other person that voted for Liq that wasn't part of the plan and that was Bugger. Not saying that OB or revenger could not also be wolves. I feel there is at least 1 wolf in the Liq vote.

Having the wolves take out one person that voted for Liq helps us out in a way. We only need to vote for 3 people instead of 4.

Bugger had people gone along with the plan Liq still would of gotten liq seeing as GLE and yourself added your names to the Liq vote. I see you were one of the people Liq suspected as a possible wolf due to early posting. GLE was another one but he turned out to be a villager. I think the wolves may have made a mistake with that kill. I know he is one of the better players but if we are looking for a wolf in the pile and there is one they made the pile smaller for us. Just like my campaign to lynch you when you were the wolf. And here we are again making piles smaller for us.

Seeing as there were 7 people named and 5 left this might be something worth considering. The following people are left:

Bugger
BoT
Masterwolf
Fwybwed
PGB

Out of this list the only player that voted for Liq that wasn't suppose to was Bugger. Were you trying to save a fellow wolf in ToL. Because if GLE doesn't vote Liq and everyone follows there would of been a tie? Does this not have significance? I think it does.

Now for not declaring votes. I think we are going to need to. We don't have the Angel or Seer. We are at a bad disadvantage. We need to communicate and play this game as a team or we are gonna get picked a part very fast.

My vote this round is going to Bugger. You have grasped on to this game very quick. You are one of the people Liq suspected, and your vote for Liz could of been detrimental to what the SEER was trying to implicate.

Also, just for the record bringing up Masterwolf. I am very suspicious of him as well and he is also on the Liq list.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
But that doesn't help us beforehand. It doesn't matter, like I said nothing short of a death or physical dismemberment threat will convince you otherwise- anyone who takes the other stance is clearly a wolf trying to draw you out.

---

But its round 2 nothing has been done as of yet, and its not going help before hand anyways, becuz all of the suspicions so far are specualtion.

If I was a Wolf the silent vote would put me in a position to be hung because our votes would possibly spread out. I would have to hope that my fellow wolves would vote in a pile to ensure that im safe or that they are safe...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but likely it's because so far there's been only two- one was utter ****, and the other is still not all upside.

---

Why speak for him at all, unless this is your opinion also. but hey you like his ideas...I like PGB's idea of knocking out a silent player.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:
WELL THEN WHY THE HELL WOULD WE STOP THEM?! One of the many tried-and-true indicators of wolfhood is tendency to wagon. What you're claiming is something bad is actually something good- it gives us piles, lets us figure out how the wolves are going to strategically place their votes, and even gives us a starting list of people to watch. You are really thinking this through badly, fwy. And I'm not so sure it's not deliberate.

---

Sure this is one of the indicators but only when the Seer and Angel are alive. It was viable cuz, the seer could check these piles. Right now all the WW's can lie their butts off, and get away with it.

To me this is new, with the Angel and Seer now gone... with this only been round 2 lynch why not try it out?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
This post doesn't sit well with me. Jaz was not the only person that did not go through with the plan. Jaz, BernieB (sup Bernie), Kood and myself didn't.

Seeing now that Liq was the seer and GLE also was a villager, there is one other person that voted for Liq that wasn't part of the plan and that was Bugger. Not saying that OB or revenger could not also be wolves. I feel there is at least 1 wolf in the Liq vote.

Having the wolves take out one person that voted for Liq helps us out in a way. We only need to vote for 3 people instead of 4.

Bugger had people gone along with the plan Liq still would of gotten liq seeing as GLE and yourself added your names to the Liq vote. I see you were one of the people Liq suspected as a possible wolf due to early posting. GLE was another one but he turned out to be a villager. I think the wolves may have made a mistake with that kill. I know he is one of the better players but if we are looking for a wolf in the pile and there is one they made the pile smaller for us. Just like my campaign to lynch you when you were the wolf. And here we are again making piles smaller for us.

Seeing as there were 7 people named and 5 left this might be something worth considering. The following people are left:

Bugger
BoT
Masterwolf
Fwybwed
PGB

---

This has all been said before, and it's all logically sound.

quote:

---

Out of this list the only player that voted for Liq that wasn't suppose to was Bugger. Were you trying to save a fellow wolf in ToL.

---

Are you asking me a question? Because questions end in question marks. However, I'll humor you.

quote:

---

Because if GLE doesn't vote Liq and everyone follows there would of been a tie? Does this not have significance? I think it does.

---

Wtf is this supposed to mean? I have no clue what you are trying to say here.

quote:

---

My vote this round is going to Bugger. You have grasped on to this game very quick.

---

Which is why I went up against Liq, and decided to kill someone in my own pile.

quote:

---

You are one of the people Liq suspected,

---

Yes. OUT OF SEVEN PEOPLE.

quote:

---

and your vote for Liz could of been detrimental to what the SEER was trying to implicate.

---

Again, wtf are you trying to say? I literally cannot understand what you are typing.

Bernek, you seem to be doing better in this game, but if you could clear out your thoughts so they're not the typing equivalent of talking with a mouthful of marbles it would really help your case.

I think you have had a large increase in self-confidence due to your success last game, and you're getting a little too overconfident here. I would HAVE tried to get attention away from ToL last round so I could what? Go after him this round like I am? You're not making any sense whatsoever, even when what you're typing vaguely resembles coherence. You're looking to relive last game, Bernek. This is not last game.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
This post doesn't sit well with me. Jaz was not the only person that did not go through with the plan. Jaz, BernieB (sup Bernie), Kood and myself didn't.

---

That's true. But I voted for her R1 because she came out and straight up said "nope, not following the plan."

Other suspects include Bugger and Bernek.

Bugger's posting has me uneasy. I don't know what it is that's raising my suspicions, it might be nothing. I don't have enough to change my vote off Jaz, but he's my next suspect.

Bernek didn't vote ToL either, same as Jaz, so he's suspected by default.

--------

As an aside, there are two other strategies we can try:

S1) Vote off each of the original 7 one by one until you hit a wolf.
Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

quote:

---

Originally posted by BernieB:
MAsterWolf, I am fine with that plan, I always have said that wolves cannot hide when they vote, the only person in both your lists is Bugger. Sorry, Sean, but my vote is for you this time.

Hey Bernek!

---

Not Sewan ( )

EDIT: O_B, Bugger = Sean.

Okay, it looks like I'll be lynched this round. I'll have to tabulate my suspicions again as such:

ThoughtsofLepers- emotional swinging player, if wolf probably guided by stronger player.
Our_Benefactors and revenger- For being the other two left in the Liq pile.
And I have a nagging feeling that one of the extremely quiet players (randon, revenger, Jaz, etc- anyone with a 5 or less post count basically) is a wolf skating by.
Keep an eye out for any 1 person dominating the discussion and direction of the thread. There's at least 1 smart wolf calling the shots here IMO, someone who knows how to play the field.
I know I'm a cit, but like it's been said for the umpteenth time that means jack squat without a seer around. If it's my neck in the noose this round then so be it. I just hope you all can find something of use and help in anything I've seen so far once I'm gone.

My vote will be for ThoughtsofLepers.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

---

Originally posted by Our_Benefactors:
Bugger- you have how many votes declared on you? Two? I appreciate that you're getting your thoughts out to us, but from here it doesn't look like you're out yet.

---

Three, actually. But you're right; I'm probably being melodramatic.
I'll see how tomorrow goes, I certainly don't want to make a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Randon: if you are there, answer me. What are your thoughts? Your suspcions? Anything? Or are you mistaking this for a dead thread again?

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

I believe that we have to lynch Bugger, followed by revenger.

I also think that we should declare votes, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to declare my votes and you guys can do what you want to do, in that area. I am tired of seeing fwyb's "I know who my vote is for..." every single post. Yeah, we get it, you're not declaring. Whoopie.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazaray:
MW: You're voting for me, because I was against the stupidest plan ever initiated in a ww game? Honestly, I don't see how anyone would be FOR it. I really wish someone would explain that part to me. Liq's plan was horrendous. (I <3 you Liq, I really do)

I believe that we have to lynch Bugger, followed by revenger.

I also think that we should declare votes, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to declare my votes and you guys can do what you want to do, in that area. I am tired of seeing fwyb's "I know who my vote is for..." every single post. Yeah, we get it, you're not declaring. Whoopie.
Thanks,
Jazaray

---

Ahhh, I have been waiting for one more to come out against the undeclared votes. Of course you are against it Jaz, it would be hard for you and PGB to figure out how to lay your lynch vote for when no one would declare their vote. The villagers dont know how much this would hurt the ww's more than us, the villagers. But Im past that now, I think I may have my suspects.

Liqs plan wasn't stoopid, his timing was and been the Seer made it worse. Maybe, just maybe you have some brothers in sheeps clothing in "The 7" this is why you did not want to follow that strategy.

Side note:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PGB:
This is why I really think Liq's plan was less than good. He's a sharp guy. He knew the flaws in the plan. It's a terrible plan if he had the seer lined up to die. It was obviously a plan that alienated himself and looked crazy suspicious. In my eye, he had to have had a role, otherwise that plan just would not have worked. I had him pegged as the seer after about a day and a half. I was hoping that I could steer people away from him by explaining that with such a radical idea, he would be the first one targeted by the seer. No dice though. I wish I could have come out and said, "Hey guys! Liq is the seer!" but that's obviously a bad move too.

---

I was like "What ever!" when I read this. If you pegged him why not go along with him instead of going against him. You did nothing to protect him, and please, dont say you did not wanna look suspicious in defending him cuz tho he was lynched he was a villager and a the seer you would have looked trustworthy in that case.

PGB to Liq:

-In my experience, anyone who tries to manipulate the entire game through a system has been a werewolf. Why should I not think you are one right now?

-Two problems.Scenario 1: You are a wolf. Obviously you are just gaming everyone if that is the case.

-I don't think Liq should be lynched this round. I agree with Bernek that he is by all odds the number one seer target right now. I'm confident that his plan will not be followed and I still think we need to look at the quiet/irrelevant players.

This is what you say to save yourself in case he does get lynched...

-If this is the direction that WW games are headed, I will not be participating in any future ones. The method of predetermined voting patterns goes entirely against spirit of the game. There is no skill. It's as Liq so succinctly put it, "plug and play that discourages any other players from doing any sort of work." Perhaps we should "consider 1 game suspension" for Liq bringing this up?

This is going by my theory that the ww's do not want a concealed vote, and who would want to avoid that strategy.

Suspects:

Jaz
PGB

IMO, Bugger is not suspect, more on this if he makes it past the lynch.

That Mafia game proved that non-declaration of votes killed the cits. The mafia swept the whole game. because the cits weren't working together. Because they weren't declaring. What did the mafia members have to say about them not declaring? They said that it didn't make much of a difference. So, it was REALLY bad for the cits, and didn't matter for the mafia. IMHO that makes it good for the cits, no? Whatever, you don't want to declare, then don't. I will continue to declare MY votes.

Liq's plan WAS stupid, plain old, run of the mill, STUPID. Not because of whom he was lynching, but because the WHOLE idea was stupid. And it was stupid ON PURPOSE, he knew he'd be eaten and not be able to provide us with any names at all, so he did something suspicious in order for the wolves to feel they could justify a vote for him.

Edit: Why do you think that bugger is not suspicious? That would be helpful to know BEFORE he gets lynched, don't you think? If you think you know some reason he shouldn't be lynched, why are you keeping it to yourself?

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

So Bugger is getting lynched? Is that what you are saying?

If so I want see who voted for him, cuz I didnt. Bugger had not been entirely on the "Liq stragety" wagon, nor the "do not declare" wagon, but he wasn't entirely against it either. so Im still on the fence about him. He stated that if liq put himself up and was a villager he would be willing to continue on with the strategy. "Page 5"

This goes against what i wanted to accomplish. I wanted to see who would vote for him in the lynch. And the Mafia game I had played was not a silent game nor was it any whare close to been non declared....look the thread over. I was a Cit who played the quiet game, but it was manipulated by people who knew how manipulate votes and where to pile and not pile.

XRkron - Mafia: The vote discussions have helped me to pull my suspicions together. So I want to make sure I put mine in while I have a free moment.

Tho none of the mafia stated that they did not like the nondeclared vote it was never a thought that entered our minds. They(Mafia) all sat back spit out names and suspicions and laffed as we all cut each other down. They sed their peace and sat back as the others joined in thier suspicions. They had piled on many piles and i wentfor the single votes. None of them even drew a sweat. That was a good game. But each game can be and is different depending on the players, their style and role.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bernek77:
This post doesn't sit well with me. Jaz was not the only person that did not go through with the plan. Jaz, BernieB (sup Bernie), Kood and myself didn't.

Seeing now that Liq was the seer and GLE also was a villager, there is one other person that voted for Liq that wasn't part of the plan and that was Bugger. Not saying that OB or revenger could not also be wolves. I feel there is at least 1 wolf in the Liq vote.

Having the wolves take out one person that voted for Liq helps us out in a way. We only need to vote for 3 people instead of 4.

Bugger had people gone along with the plan Liq still would of gotten liq seeing as GLE and yourself added your names to the Liq vote. I see you were one of the people Liq suspected as a possible wolf due to early posting. GLE was another one but he turned out to be a villager. I think the wolves may have made a mistake with that kill. I know he is one of the better players but if we are looking for a wolf in the pile and there is one they made the pile smaller for us. Just like my campaign to lynch you when you were the wolf. And here we are again making piles smaller for us.

Seeing as there were 7 people named and 5 left this might be something worth considering. The following people are left:

Bugger
BoT
Masterwolf
Fwybwed
PGB

Out of this list the only player that voted for Liq that wasn't suppose to was Bugger. Were you trying to save a fellow wolf in ToL. Because if GLE doesn't vote Liq and everyone follows there would of been a tie? Does this not have significance? I think it does.

Now for not declaring votes. I think we are going to need to. We don't have the Angel or Seer. We are at a bad disadvantage. We need to communicate and play this game as a team or we are gonna get picked a part very fast.

My vote this round is going to Bugger. You have grasped on to this game very quick. You are one of the people Liq suspected, and your vote for Liz could of been detrimental to what the SEER was trying to implicate.

Also, just for the record bringing up Masterwolf. I am very suspicious of him as well and he is also on the Liq list.

---

After reading this, I have realized this is almost what I have been trying to say. With the exception of Masterwolf. I am just can not come up with all these high tech and eloquent words you all can come up with.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bugger:

Bernek, you seem to be doing better in this game, but if you could clear out your thoughts so they're not the typing equivalent of talking with a mouthful of marbles it would really help your case.

---

I see this as a way to start an argument, and make it a focus point of bickering and fussing back and forth. PD did it last game (I know I am making alot of references to PD, but I am sorry, I am trying to not to be the one led to the slaughter, what PD did last game to us.) So with this, I see an argument between you two and thus divert us from the real wolves.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:

I believe that we have to lynch Bugger, followed by revenger.

I also think that we should declare votes, but that's just my opinion. I will continue to declare my votes and you guys can do what you want to do, in that area. I am tired of seeing fwyb's "I know who my vote is for..." every single post. Yeah, we get it, you're not declaring. Whoopie.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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I understand Liq's plan somewhat. I think, but I could be incorrect, he wanted to hide the seer (himself) for three rounds to seer 3 people, to find out who is and who is not what they truly are. He stated he would gladly go to the gallows after 3 rounds, being since he would have seered 3 people and prolly would have revealed what knowledge he could have obtained. I might be mistaken, but we will not know until the game is over.

You want to lynch Bugger, then myself. I have learned to not take this game with so much emotion now, so if by my death I can help us out to win, I will gladly do so. Previous past I think I would have launched into a retort, a defensive nature. Knowing I am cit, that means the "piles" get smaller and smaller and the wolves cannot hide as well. Like previous game, I know my death proves to the ones who suspected me wrong, so in that, I am satisfied.

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Originally posted by randon007:
I am almost 100% sure that one of the wolves voted for Liq. This leaves Bugger, Our_Benefactors, and revenger. Now of these three I really have no idea. I'm honestly leaning toward revenger, but I really have no hard evidence for this suspicion. I'm going to save my vote for a little and see if any of these players does something suspicious.

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Care to share why you are leaning towards me? I am curious as to why I would be even considered, but then again, everyone has suspicions of everyone I think about right now.

Once again, just my thoughts. Care to analyze everyone.

~Revenger

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After we take out the Liq pile we need to look at the remaining 4 names on the other list. IMO the vote order should go: Bugger, OB then revenger.

After this is done we need to look at the early posters Liq pointed out. If Bugger isn't a wolf we might have 2.

If anyone else likes this Idea LMK. I am putting in my vote for bugger!

__________________
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~Revenger

__________________
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Originally posted by Bernek77:
I htink this is one of your best posts yet IMO. And After reading this I don't think your a wolf however, there are 3 people alive in the vote. Bugger is the only one in both piles we need to look at.

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And it never occured to you that this might be done intentionally? Were he still alive, GLE would also fit in both piles.

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After we take out the Liq pile we need to look at the remaining 4 names on the other list. IMO the vote order should go: Bugger, OB then revenger.

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Then you propose we run down a list of 9 people when we only have 4 lynches to use? I'm no longer so certain that a wolf is in the Liq pile. It's certainly possible, but since I'm the only one left who voted for Liq for any reason other than following his plan, there's not much evidence left. I was trying to force something that might not be there. Now, I know you guys aren't going to listen to this candidly until you find out I'm a cit, but just let me explain:
There are 2 voters (after my death) in the Liq pile. Both of them voted Liq because essentially he told them to. That in itself doesn't absolve suspicion, but remember this is only two people out of 14. Neither of which were in the "lucky 7" group (And it seems like PGB's talking to himself here, but saying that there's likely a wolf is in that seven is like saying it's probable the sun will rise tomorrow- it's an entire half of the population. Of *course* there's likely to be a wolf there. Anyway). In retrospect there isn't as much a case there. I can't control anyone from lynching anyone else, but I will say that there's a hell of a lot less reason to lynch either of them right now as all things considered it's a weak link.
*NOTE: Please, if anyone is having trouble getting what I'm trying to say here, let me know so I can try to elaborate.

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After this is done we need to look at the early posters Liq pointed out. If Bugger isn't a wolf we might have 2.

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Wait, what? This really makes no sense, and in this case it's not because something was lost in translation (more on that later). Bernek, what you're saying is empty and likely wrong. The mere fact of my cithood (theoretical for now, let's say) somehow makes it more likely that with a smaller size of the populace there are more wolves in it??? If anything it should stay the same. Presuming that there's an inverse relationship between a group's size and the net number of wolves in it is really quite nuts, I'm sorry. I hope you just said it wrong or something and didn't actually mean that.

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If anyone else likes this Idea LMK. I am putting in my vote for bugger!

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I for one don't like the idea (suprise, suprise). I'm just frustrated that the pile analysis method is pointing so damningly wrong. I hope that in later rounds when previous piles are examined that you guys take a more overall look at the trends- not just who voted where for a single round. I can almost guarantee at least 1 wolf will be voting for me.

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Originally posted by Fwybwed:
IMO, Bugger is not suspect, more on this if he makes it past the lynch.

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Um, not to be too demanding fwy, but do you think maybe you could expound on this *before* the lynch?

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This is going by my theory that the ww's do not want a concealed vote, and who would want to avoid that strategy.

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Now I know what PGB felt like when no one heard him point out that Liq's statement of 1 wolf in 7 was a stupid idea:
I called it. Fwy is going to think anyone who tries to get him to reveal his vote, or tries to get anyone else to do the same, is a wolf. There is literally nothing you can do to change his mind on that.

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I was like "What ever!" when I read this. If you pegged him why not go along with him instead of going against him. You did nothing to protect him, and please, dont say you did not wanna look suspicious in defending him cuz tho he was lynched he was a villager and a the seer you would have looked trustworthy in that case.

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I'll say it, then, because I thought the same thing. I strongly suspected Liq had a role after he refused to answer my offer to verify the validity of his plan. I was worried he was the seer for a while, which is why I said I didn't want to lynch him that round. But the more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion "naah, he can't be the seer. Liq's not that stupid to come up with a plan like that if he's the seer". I was wrong.

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
Ahhh, I have been waiting for one more to come out against the undeclared votes. Of course you are against it Jaz, it would be hard for you and PGB to figure out how to lay your lynch vote for when no one would declare their vote. The villagers dont know how much this would hurt the ww's more than us, the villagers. But Im past that now, I think I may have my suspects.

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This has my attention. In fact, Fwy, I think you are a wolf. Everyone bear with me for a minute:

1. Fwybwed is supporting me.
Last game, when things were looking bad for Chuck, we decided he'd try to bring down at least 1 other cit with him. He chose kood, as kood had made motions of support towards him earlier. The idea was to buy a round *after* his lynch by setting up kood to look bad. Now I'm worried fwy is doing the reverse: if he's a wolf, he knows I'm a cit and if (and when) I get lynched he'll look better for having supported me. He did support me, right? Well, not really. He just said he thinks I'm innocent and (this is the important part) he'd elaborate more afterwards. Fwy: if you think I'm a cit, why are you waiting? Are you worried everyone's going to go after you instead? Or are you just trying to throw in some token support to improve your image when you're gone?

2. His suspicions.
Right now Fwy has the next two strongest players in the game on his suspicion list: Jaz and PGB. The other three strong players? Lynched or killed. And again, why does he ignore the fact that I'm campaigning for revealed votes in favor of putting it on Jaz and PGB? Is it because they're bigger fish to fry?

3. His strategy.
On the surface, it looks like a strategy that you'd practically have to be a cit to endorse. After all, anyone who disagrees is giving information to the wolves. And it's proven that it foils the wolves. But does it? In the short term, yes. Not in the long-term. Take Mafia. No declarations, and the mafia won in a clean sweep. I said before I thought it was likely that at least 1 of the wolves was a mafia player and knew that stifling discussion helped the mafia. I think it's you, fwy. Especially because you've been so one-dimensional in your support of it. What else is your strategy for the cits to win? Nothing. What is the only basis for your suspicions list? People who have campaigned for votes.

4. More of 3 and 1/2: Fwy defending his position.
When PGB points out errors:

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So in the game where we have minimal outside information, you want to remove the information within the game as well? oookay...

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So far you are the main person who was aginst all theories or strategies thus far PGB...why is is that.

No one is down with the silent vote which would IMO reveal more then a voiced vote as the ww would only "pile on" or "single vote" around it depending on the situation. So it doesnt matter now.

We are guessing right now with no evidence. Why does that differ from a silent vote. When a vote is voiced, you hear why they are voting that way but only because others are voting the same way...

example:

Player A votes PGB on suspicion
Player B votes PGB also but say I agree with "A" blah blah blah...

but if we conceal our votes wolves cant do this....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
WELL THEN WHY THE HELL WOULD WE STOP THEM?! One of the many tried-and-true indicators of wolfhood is tendency to wagon. What you're claiming is something bad is actually something good- it gives us piles, lets us figure out how the wolves are going to strategically place their votes, and even gives us a starting list of people to watch. You are really thinking this through badly, fwy. And I'm not so sure it's not deliberate.

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Sure this is one of the indicators but only when the Seer and Angel are alive. It was viable cuz, the seer could check these piles. Right now all the WW's can lie their butts off, and get away with it.

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you say what if we lynch a Villager??? We've done that in the last round already. what have we got to lose.

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I feel VERY strongly that Fwybwed is a wolf. And while I would still prefer to not be in the noose this round per se, if proving my cithood is what it takes for you all to take a harder look at Fwy, then I'll tie the noose myself. Because I really do think he's a wolf. Everything the wolves have done, his suspicions, his gameplay, all of it. To me it's too perfect.

I know who my vote is for.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

I've been thinking the same thing about fwyb trying to get the next two strongest players (pgb and I) lynched. I was going to change my vote, as of the last post by fwyb, but I didn't feel I had a strong enough case against him.

One thing that I disagree with, is that I never tried to get fwyb to declare his votes, just expressed my opinion on the subject and he was after me anyways.

I'm willing to switch my vote this round to fwyb, and I would encourage others to do so.

Voting fwyb

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
I know who my vote is for.

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... I hate you. :P

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.