quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:

I've got some thoughts but I'd like to hear what others have considered before posting mine.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GLE:

Ill let someone who's without sin cast the first stone, and then jump back in."

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quote:

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Originally posted by ThoughtsofLeppers:

With that said, no stone-casting here; I'll leave that to someone else."

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Read: I don't want to ruffle any feathers early on so I'll wait for someone else to make the first move, thus reducing suspicion on myself. These are fine intentions from a personal point of view, but if this becomes a widespread practice, it could become very dangerous. Like others have said, we need to be vocal this game. But being more vocal does NOT mean just talking about nothing - all that does is create the ruse that more information is being collected when really we're accomplishing little. So if you have suspicions or an accusation, bring it to light for discussion. If you have thoughts that need more time to develop, you don't need to inform us that you have a secret theory you intend to reveal later. We want clear information, not confusion - the latter helps the wolves.

As far as my vote goes...@Liq

My first reaction to your strategy suspicion. If you are a wolf, this plan is sending us to (presumably) our doom. However, after thinking about it, I'm willing to go along with it for two reasons. First, you are known for being one of the game's greatest masterminds, and I trust you've put substantial time into perfecting this plan. If you are a citizen, which you are statistically most likely to be, it probably gives us a good chance at victory. I don't fully understand HOW your plan will give us the win quite yet, but I doubt you would post something of this sort if you didn't know how it was going to pan out. Second, I'm going to trust that the seer will inform us sooner or later if you are leading us astray, in which case we can promptly stop following your "plan" and hopefully recover. At that point, it seems like following your plan is the best move. Minimally, I can't find much else go off at this early point.

So according to you if we go by this plan you have the first 3 rounds figured out to hide the seer. What happens if the wolves eat you? Say they feel that this play is very detrimental to their game. How would we set up the piles?

The seer has gotten nabbed a lot lately. They are afraid to come out after confirming 3 names then including themselves. IMO it is selfish so where can we gain if they aren't willing to come out after 3 names. This is very substantial. Usually after getting 3 names, there are a total of 7 people dead. Now if he gets 3 names, none of which are among the 7 dead that is a total of 11 people. That means there is only 6 names to garnish through.

I think that the seer should keep this in mind as we haven't had the seer help in quite a few games and it is not helping us!

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

I read it over many times to try and figure out what would the purpose be. Tho we would thin out the 7 first posters (me included)

My question:

1- How did "The 7" become your number? What concerns me is that the "The 7" contain names of some pretty good players, some veteran's that one may considered threatening....

2- What constitutes an "Early poster"? As your post was after the last person on your suspect list. With a strategy listed right off the bat, no less.

3- What if none of "The 7" include 1 ww? Scratch this Answered in #5

4- What if the Seer is in "The 7" What if the first block includes the seer and he or she is to be lynched. He or She would have to come out to save themselves before the lynch in order for us to save one Villager. Only because we would not know the true identity of the person he or she is up against on the block.

5- You say you would put yourself up as a lynch if 3 or more Villagers get lynched to prove yourself a Villager looking out for our best interest (The Seer) If you are a Villager then we would lose 4 Villagers on your strategy alone. This would leave the game with 10 players including 3 ww's. Is that room enough for us to find 3 ww's especially if the Seer gets shredded somewhere in between?

I suggested a simple no reveal vote for the first round just so we can see who voted for who after the Lynch.

Tho one person so far has announced a vote for you, liq.I still think its a viable play for the first round.

With your stragety I think its risky as we dont know the players and their roles of course. This is something that would have to be planned on some serious information. Tho the ww's usually have a poster in the first pages after the kill, Im not sure, just as everyone else who to put up. Its all random in the first 2 rounds. What your strategy says to me is that this is a still random, just more organized

As the old saying goes....

I know who my vote is for...

quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
Read: I don't want to ruffle any feathers early on so I'll wait for someone else to make the first move, thus reducing suspicion on myself. These are fine intentions from a personal point of view, but if this becomes a widespread practice, it could become very dangerous. Like others have said, we need to be vocal this game. But being more vocal does NOT mean just talking about nothing - all that does is create the ruse that more information is being collected when really we're accomplishing little. So if you have suspicions or an accusation, bring it to light for discussion. If you have thoughts that need more time to develop, you don't need to inform us that you have a secret theory you intend to reveal later. We want clear information, not confusion - the latter helps the wolves.

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It has nothing to do with ruffling feathers and everything to do with observation. I'm watching everyone; if I post often or vigorously stir the pot, it affects their posting. Heisenberg's Principle as applied to WW, let's call it. I'm trying to build a profile of who these wolves are, what they're aiming to achieve, and how they're trying to accomplish that. By posting this now I'm affecting their game.

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
I feel its now time unveil my PD Strategy : Staggered Voting.

As I said before I feel the following 7 players are the most suspicious:

Bugger
Battle_of_Twits
GottaLoveElves
Thoughts of Lepers
fwybwed
PureGoblinBoy
MasterWolf

Now for my game winning strategy based off of PD's Data from previous rounds. I propose the following.

Players voting Thoughts of Lepers :
randon007
Jazaray
Liq
AlmasterGM
Bernek77

Players voting for Liq :
BernieB
koodkkslis
Our_Benefactors
revenger

What this does is not allow the Wolves to control us. I will suggest a 5/4 Staggered Vote for the next round. For Round 3 and 4, I suggest a 4/3 Staggered Vote.

1) If any player disrupts the plan, then that player is a wolf.

By either leaving the 5 pile or making the 4 pile larger or suggesting a 3rd pile equal or greater than the 5 pile, suggest that that player is looking to entrap the Seer. The only players interested in finding the Seer are the Wolves.

2) Since we're not allowing a split vote we hide the Seer.

The Seer's presence is important since the Angel has been eliminated. This strategy allows the Seer to hide within the ranks making it harder for the Wolves to find.

3) The two voter piles are also likely to contain a wolf or two.

I am not suggesting that all 3 wolves are in the 7 player suspicion list I posted. In round 4, the players within these two piles should be closely looked at. Especially if a wolf is found to be in the suspicion list.

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I'll put this bluntly: no. What makes this especially interesting is that you were quite outspoken against Chuck's overusage of math in last game. Why are you so eager to jump for it now?

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
1) I'm not an early poster. I watch and monitor. I've gotten fairly good at it.

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Indeed you have. But nevertheless you are an early poster yourself now. You're also committing a fairly large oversight: the wolves kill someone each round. If they get the seer at some point within the next three rounds, this plan is pointless. Also, (and forgive me if this is obvious, like I said I'm no math savant) wouldn't this make it easier for the wolves to find the seer?

Overall I strongly disagree with Liq's proposal and he has made my suspicion list not simply because of that but for other reasons that may or may not bear fruit just yet. I like the idea of lynching a quiet player this round and if we're going to do that let's float some ideas in that direction. I'm uneasy with a Liq lynch right now because wolf or not he's the strongest player on these boards. For all we know the wolves will keep him alive just so we jump on him and lynch him for them. We have a seer to deal with phenomena like Liq. If he continues to behave in a wolfy manner, then count me on board for his lynch; but not just yet.

Wow, this was kind of a mess. I have to go to class now, expect more to follow around 8:30-9:00 MOTL time (my lunch break).

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

__________________
Originally posted by pyr0ma5ta:
When in doubt, always go with the mom joke. It's classy, and you always win. There can be no comeback.

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
I feel its now time unveil my PD Strategy : Staggered Voting.

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Garbage. I sincerely hope that this is either a drawing tactic or a wolf tactic, because if you're serious about that, there are some huge issues. I neglect to see how the seer is "protected" unless none of the players on your list ever post and thus don't catch the wolves' eye.
Meanwhile, Jaz has already mentioned that nothing protects the seer from coming on the chopping block.

quote:

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Originally posted by AlmasterGM:
Read: I don't want to ruffle any feathers early on so I'll wait for someone else to make the first move, thus reducing suspicion on myself. These are fine intentions from a personal point of view, but if this becomes a widespread practice, it could become very dangerous. Like others have said, we need to be vocal this game. But being more vocal does NOT mean just talking about nothing - all that does is create the ruse that more information is being collected when really we're accomplishing little. So if you have suspicions or an accusation, bring it to light for discussion. If you have thoughts that need more time to develop, you don't need to inform us that you have a secret theory you intend to reveal later. We want clear information, not confusion - the latter helps the wolves.

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I resent my inclusion in your list--there hadn't been enough said to cast an accusation, so I didn't. My someone without sin casting the first stone remark more or less meant that I wasn't going to pull what I pulled last game and name someone I was voting for arbitrarily. I agree with your sentiment, but don't want to be misconstrued as someone who doesn't contribute.

Meanwhile, with respect to declaring votes, I don't think it has to be such a polar thing. fwy has mentioned trying nobody declaring, but really determined accusations may as well be declarations in most cases anyways. Honestly, I think a person-based model is best: if you want to declare, do it. If you don't, hold your vote--still contribute, but leave some ambiguity in the way that you're going to vote. That way, there's enough information so that a deciding cit will have enough information to decide where their vote is best placed, but we don't let the wolves hide as easily, in some cases perhaps forcing them to co-ordinate votes in order to save one of their own.

As for my suspicions, I'm on lunch and don't have a wealth of time to expound, but Jazaray and Liq head up the list.

quote:

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Originally posted by GottaLoveElves:

As for my suspicions, I'm on lunch and don't have a wealth of time to expound, but Jazaray and Liq head up the list.

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I'm curious; what has Jaz done that raised your attention? Is there something I overlooked?

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Hey Liq, and what if the seer is one of your "sacrifices"? How is this hiding the seer when no one knows who the seer is?

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If the seer is one of the sacrifices, I will gladly go to the gallows.

How this is hiding the seer is that it forces everyone to vote as a set allowing no information to the seer's probing to surface.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
What if Thoughts is the seer? Or the next person you put on the block?

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Accidently lynching the seer is greatest flaw within this strategy. Normally I wouldn't have suggested strategy but with the Angel dead, I feel that this strategy is necessary.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Also, I thought you don't LIKE it when people try to make it a game of math? Isn't that all your proposal is?

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I admit that I don't like making this game a bunch of numbers but I will also admit that it does work if applied properly.

quote:

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Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
Two problems.

Scenario 1: You are a wolf. Obviously you are just gaming everyone if that is the case.

Edit: Scenario 2 has been sarnath'd by Jaz.

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If I'm a wolf, then lynching me in Round 4 is your answer.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
So according to you if we go by this plan you have the first 3 rounds figured out to hide the seer. What happens if the wolves eat you? Say they feel that this play is very detrimental to their game. How would we set up the piles?

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If the wolves decide to eat me, then the seer survives another round. However I doubt the wolves will eat a villager who has a strategy set forth to get them through the first 3 rounds of lynching.

Round 2 Voting : Bugger vs GLE (5/4)
Round 3 Voting : Fwyb vs BoT (4/3)

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
How did "The 7" become your number? What concerns me is that the "The 7" contain names of some pretty good players, some veteran's that one may considered threatening....

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7 became the number because the numbers 5 and 4 were the voting blocks.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
What constitutes an "Early poster"? As your post was after the last person on your suspect list. With a strategy listed right off the bat, no less.

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An early poster is someone who posts within the first 10 posts. This all dependant on the time difference between the posts.

quote:

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Originally posted by fwybwed:
You say you would put yourself up as a lynch if 3 or more Villagers get lynched to prove yourself a Villager looking out for our best interest (The Seer) If you are a Villager then we would lose 4 Villagers on your strategy alone. This would leave the game with 10 players including 3 ww's. Is that room enough for us to find 3 ww's especially if the Seer gets shredded somewhere in between?

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This strategy is highly dependant on the Seer being able to reveal himself with some information. As such I present myself as a Round 4 lynch so that he does not have to waste time seering me.

quote:

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Originally posted by BernieB:
Coming out with a plan like this makes me really suspect Liq, it is not like him to bring out schemes like this, it may be that with PD out of the picture Liq thinks it falls to him to pick up the leadership slack. Just seems too fishy, or rather wolfy, to me.
Voting Liq[B]

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You've forgetting that I brought into use the Zero Mafia Vote Strategy and used it to the full effect of breaking the previous verison of Mafia. I have always been willing to put forth bold strategies if I think they can work.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
[B]I'll put this bluntly: no. What makes this especially interesting is that you were quite outspoken against Chuck's overusage of math in last game. Why are you so eager to jump for it now?

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Yes, I was against PD's overusage of math. What I am presenting is simple math with a very specific goal. Hide the Seer. For 3 Rounds. I want to use the strategy because I know it works.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Indeed you have. But nevertheless you are an early poster yourself now. You're also committing a fairly large oversight: the wolves kill someone each round. If they get the seer at some point within the next three rounds, this plan is pointless. Also, (and forgive me if this is obvious, like I said I'm no math savant) wouldn't this make it easier for the wolves to find the seer?

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If the seer dies before Round 4, then this strategy has to be scrapped since it was created in order to protect the seer.

As for the wolves, I have long been more in tune with finding the seer than finding wolves. After considering the possibilities, I feel that this will allow the seer to hide far more effectively than just letting him hide in our background which the wolves tend to look at.

__________________
Your Captain N of 2008

quote:

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Originally posted by Liq:
If the seer is one of the sacrifices, I will gladly go to the gallows.

How this is hiding the seer is that it forces everyone to vote as a set allowing no information to the seer's probing to surface.

Accidently lynching the seer is greatest flaw within this strategy. Normally I wouldn't have suggested strategy but with the Angel dead, I feel that this strategy is necessary.

I admit that I don't like making this game a bunch of numbers but I will also admit that it does work if applied properly.

If I'm a wolf, then lynching me in Round 4 is your answer.

If the wolves decide to eat me, then the seer survives another round. However I doubt the wolves will eat a villager who has a strategy set forth to get them through the first 3 rounds of lynching.

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Thank you for explaining.

quote:

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This strategy is highly dependant on the Seer being able to reveal himself with some information. As such I present myself as a Round 4 lynch so that he does not have to waste time seering me.

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__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

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Originally posted by ThoughtsofLepers:
@Bugger

That seems like an idea any citizen would like. I say we try that out. Chances of having people vote for the seer are much smaller than having people vote for a wolf. And more importantly (and more likely), I think it would be useful to see who actually votes for who and who responds negatively to the plan in general. So next round, it would be me/bugger on the block, with the 5/4 stacked however the masses deem appropriate. Unless something happens that changes my mind, I'm officially voting Liq for the reasons outlined by Bugger, and hope that all fellow citizenry will as well. (And for the same reasons. Assuming Liq isn't a wolf, I think this split vote agreement will help determine who the wolves are and protect the seer. [I was going to outline this point further, but I decided it gives away too much to the wolves.]

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Just one thing- I want to make it clear we can (and should) stagger this round's votes as well- 5 for Liq and 4 for one of us quick-posters. If Liq is a cit, we've got a head start on the strategy. If he's a wolf, well, we'll have two fairly large piles to pick apart- and possibly find something of interest in later rounds.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

I'm confident that his plan will not be followed and I still think we need to look at the quiet/irrelevant players.

Players this game and vote tally

Bugger- 7
Thoughts of Lepers- 4
BernieB- 1
koodkkslis- 1
Battle_of_Twits- 3
randon- 0
GottaLoveElves- 2
Liq- 4
Our_Benefactors- 2
Jazaray- 3
AlmasterGM- 1
revenger- 3(double post)
MasterWolf- 3
Bernek- 3
fwybwed- 2
PureGoblinBoy- 4

Some notes while I was reviewing posts:

ThoughtsofLepers has been willing to hop on any bandwagon. He's the definition of a sheep. Every post of his that I read goes like, "Hey sounds good. Let's do that."

Kood has made one post against voting for Liq. To him I ask, who will you be voting for instead? You say very little.

Randon has said nothing. Most games though, he does exactly the same thing. I expect him to pop in like an hour or so before votes are due to declare/give a list of suspects with little reasoning, and then do the same thing next round.

Bugger is also interested in finding a system that works. He seems to think that Liq's system is good, but he would rather call the shots himself.

GLE condemned Liq's system, but has said little else of consequence.

Now if anyone else disturbs these piles they will look like a wolf trying to stop this plan from executing. the most the wolves can have is a 3 votes towards one player. They will not be able to hang anyone until the third round of voting.

Now granted if he turns up a wolf after the 4th round then we only need to find 2 more. and then we have numbers gained. and if we don't lose the Seer and he comes out after the Liq kill if he survives that long, then we will have the names of hopefully 3 alive players.

I am one to trust the likes of Liq and GLE and I have stressed this thoroughly. Even though Liq coming out early with a plan it really might work.

GLE what about Liq's plan don't you like?

Sup Bernie!

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.

quote:

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Originally posted by puregoblinboy47:
I don't think Liq should be lynched this round. I agree with Bernek that he is by all odds the number one seer target right now.

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I'm not gunning for a Liq lynch nessecarily, I was asking him if he were open to that kind of compromise. And I agree that it is telling that Thoughts of Lepers immediately jumped on what he perceived as a wagon. And not to belabor the point, but a Liq lynch this round would effectively be a seer scry for us- we'd know his identity. He can leave at least three of us able to execute the plan in his absence should he be a cit, and if he's a wolf well then that's good too.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bernek77:
I understand where Liq is going with this. Bugger you have a valid point as well.

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Why thank you.

quote:

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But, here is what it is. Liq is one of the better players and with this strategy in play, if we are able to hide the seer and not have him check the names of the 5 vs 4 leader and 4 vs 3, have him check the lesser vote getter.

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That's a good point I think. Are you saying that every round, the seer can scry the 4-vote earner and the 5-vote earner will be lynched? It sounds good, but OTOH the wolves can slow the seer down by killing the 4-vote getter if the seer so chooses to scry in that way. I think it'd be better for the Seer to scry somewhat randomly- then there's less of a chance for the wolf kill and the seer scry to coincide. But that's just me. It's up to the seer him (or her) self.

quote:

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Bugger is also interested in finding a system that works. He seems to think that Liq's system is good, but he would rather call the shots himself.

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I don't know about "calling shots" per se. I'm a newb at this still. I'd rather submit my thoughts to examination by the other members of the populace- that way anything I missed can be addressed, and I can contribute without manhandling the round (which something like the consensus system does quite roughly).

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 3!]

quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
Cue local radio station

**The danger in Pogglesworth is great. Not only have there been reports of large vicious unidentified animals, but also a body has turned up in an alley behind the local hardware store. The coroner identified the body of PlasteredDragon. Local authorities report that PD's body hs some strange markings all over it, but none more strange than the two on it's back.**

Deputy Jones " The wounds on the victims back appear to be the most puzzling...almost as if he hwad wings plucked right from his body"

**[Authorities say they have no leads and no suspects at this time**

Villagers your vote is due Saturday Night (9pm eastern/6pm Motl time)

~MM

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Votes are due tomorrow night I thought...

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

quote:

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Originally posted by MeddlingMage:
**We interrupt this program to remind the citizens of Pogglesworth that that votes are due saturday night.Get them in**

~MM

---

Wah?

~MM

__________________
[Help me PIMP my Slide!] [Join Us,or DIE!][Refs][Me] [Werewolf 3!]

I'm still not sold on the Liq strategy, considering he didn't respond to my compromise offer. I like PGB's idea of knocking out a silent player, and nothing else has been big enough to turn my head yet. I know whom I'm voting for, and depending on how next round (and saturday's lynch) goes I'll reveal my reasons why.

__________________
You know, I get it that people are just looking for a way to fill the holes. But they want the holes; they want to live in the holes; and they go nuts when someone else pours dirt in their holes. Climb out of your holes, people!
-Hugh Laurie, House

As of now, I'm going with the only other posted plan: examine the silent players. (Ooooh look, bandwagoning again!)

Now, should the seer die while going through Liq's piles then we can vote him off. If he turns out a wolf then we can all go back and check out people that complied with this theory.

This of course would include me and I would be willing to sacrifice myself to prove I was a villager to get someone else.

My only other person that I suspect is Masterwolf. Coincidence? There was something about his post that did not sit right with me. I don't know if I can pinpoint what about it. Just going back over ther posted threads there was something that just said to me this doesn't feel right.

__________________
How many times do I have to have sex with your mom before you realize we have something special.