I hope the lbj thing is no surprise to anyone who actually watches nba. What have been some surprises this season so far to you?

No D-Rose. Get lucky in lotto

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Originally posted by choco man:
I don't watch ESPN anymore because I no longer have TV since I moved.

Playoffs maybe, but winning it all not really.

The NBA is better all around than when Jordan played. Look at how dominant LBJ is and there are still players that will win MVP instead of him.

Kobe's detractors will hate him, but he is the closest player to Jordan since Jordan left (style, personality, skill, effect on the NBA). Look now, how Kobe and 34 yr old Jordan are still scoring in bunches but are too slow to guard elite players anymore

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I'm not sure this is the best way to substantiate that the NBA is better today since Jordan did lose a few MVPs as well.

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Originally posted by wayne:

I'm not sure this is the best way to substantiate that the NBA is better today since Jordan did lose a few MVPs as well.

Anyway, Jordan is still the GOAT which is why he is still revered today. LeBron has the potential to surpass him though, whether he fulfills his potential or not is a different story.

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Yeah, that is so.

Mailman was okay, but not the real MVP compared to Jordan.

NBA does have better players and teams though. Maybe I don't have a definitive way to say competition among teams is better, but for one thing the NBA does have significantly more int'l players now than back then.

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Originally posted by choco man:

The rest of the world plays better basketball and adds to the pool of talented players for the NBA already in USA.

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Yeah, I guess that would support your argument better.

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Originally posted by Kyosukee:
Grand total of like 3-4 moves so far? I hope it heats up i nthe next 20 minutes...

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Originally posted by choco man:
For the most part, the art of building a good and competitive team is lost in the NBA.

le sigh

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Originally posted by speechjew:
With the new CBA, it places a premium on paying max dollars to one or two superstars, and finding quality supporting players. That's why the Heat as they are won't last past next year.

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IMO, the nature of basketball (1-on-1, player affects both sides of ball, etc.) places a premium on paying and locking down 2 "max players."

But there aren't "enough" max players for every team to have two max players. Look at the all-star rosters, not even every player on that is a legit max player.

There should have been a provision in the CBA that allows teams to spend extra money on players that they drafted and not have it count towards the cap. That way you are encouraged to draft well and then not have it count against you when you develop them and they earn more/max money.

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Originally posted by choco man:

There should have been a provision in the CBA that allows teams to spend extra money on players that they drafted and not have it count towards the cap. That way you are encouraged to draft well and then not have it count against you when you develop them and they earn more/max money.

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Originally posted by speechjew:
There sort of is. The CBA allows teams to spend more money on their own free agents. That's why the Mavs could only offer 4 years and $75 million while the Nets could offer 5 years and $99 million. That's why a lot of teams did NOT trade their premiere players. Now the Hawks can sign Josh Smith to a max deal, trade him to a team that wants him, Smith gets his max deal, and the Hawks get something in return in a sign-and-trade.

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It's still not quite enough though. The actual benefit comes in being able to offer that 5th year, but not really in dollars. For instance, Dwight Howard can get a 5 year deal from the Lakers, but only 4 from everyone else. The difference in salary over the course of those first 4 years though would only be about $3.7M in the Lakers favor. Factor in a team like Dallas or Houston with no State Income Tax on at least half your games (vs 12% in CA) and the money quickly becomes a non-issue. In most cases, 4 years from now for a player like Howard (ie: The guys that matter the most for building a Championship team) the money will still be there in 4 years for another contract. In some respects, it might be better for him to get a 4 year deal as then he'll be a FA when he's a 31 year old Center looking for a contract through his age 36 season instead of 32 years through 37. Then being a FA again at 36 looking to hang on for one more contract to 40 isn't too hard a sell at the right price.

They tried to fix this issue with a more punitive Luxury Tax, especially for repeat offenders, and I think that is only going to exacerbate the issue. A team like LA or NY or even Dallas can more easily afford to pay those fines with their local revenue streams. Those same opportunities will never be available in Memphis or OKC or Charlotte. A $20M tax bill is nothing for the Lakers, its downright crippling for Memphis if they don't win it all. If a team manages to get lucky a bit and draft well to end up with two or three top shelf guys they'll inevitably be forced to trade one for financial reasons like Harden or risk losing them to the bright lights of bigger cities like Carmelo and Dwight and Paul.

My suggestion would be to limit contracts to 5 years for resigning, 3 if you're going to a new team, and 4 for a sign and trade. Most sign and trades bring back garbage (trade exceptions and draft picks that will likely be in the high 20s if the player was worth anything) and are really only done because the team that says no will probably be blackballed a bit in the eyes of potential players.

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Originally posted by CubFan81:
Also, any non-rookie contract signed by a player that your team has controlled since his rookie contract only counts 75% or 80% for cap/tax purposes. The number would have to be worked a bit to make it balance but I think it would help more teams than it would hurt.

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That's really what I'm looking for.

I know that teams can sign their own free agents for more money. But I'm talking about players that their own team specifically drafted and developed the whole way.

What if anything that Chicago ever pays D-Rose doesn't count towards the cap at all? They could offer him max-max money and it wouldn't hurt their competitiveness in getting other good players.

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Originally posted by choco man:
That's really what I'm looking for.

I know that teams can sign their own free agents for more money. But I'm talking about players that their own team specifically drafted and developed the whole way.

What if anything that Chicago ever pays D-Rose doesn't count towards the cap at all? They could offer him max-max money and it wouldn't hurt their competitiveness in getting other good players.

They need a system that better rewards drafting. Right now it's rookie contracts. So you get a cheap LBJ for 3-4 years, but that's it.

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While not the same, that's kind of what the Bird rights are. They allow you to go over the cap to re-sign your own players.

What you're proposing would be extremely tricky. What if that player is traded? Would his salary affect the new team's cap? I wouldn't mind seeing a signing bonus system like there is in the NFL, where bonuses count 1 year against a cap, or can be deferred past the original contract. But NBA contracts are also semi-guaranteed, unlike NFL contracts.

I digress.

The NBA draft is so hit-or-miss, and the generational talent like LBJ comes along so rarely. In the 2009 and 2010 drafts, there have only been 4 players selected to All-Star teams. So many players after the 8th pick or so just go into mediocrity.

Draft is hit and miss. Such is life. Brandon Roy was a hit, but injuries stole away his career (ala Penny Hardaway).

I want a system that benefits a team building strategy more than the current system. In the current system, guys get max money even when they fail to produce near the real max guys. Roy Hibbert? It sucks that crappy teams have to pay max money just to keep the only guy they were able to draft and it makes them unable to do anything else.

In a trade, yes the salary should affect the new team's cap. The CBA and the way teams are constructed (almost every team is near the cap), trades are impossible.

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Originally posted by choco man:
Those Pistons were awesome. I still remember their series vs the Spurs. If Wallace didn't forget Horry in the last inbound in game 1, Detroit would have repeated. No one on that team was a max guy.

Draft is hit and miss. Such is life. Brandon Roy was a hit, but injuries stole away his career (ala Penny Hardaway).

I want a system that benefits a team building strategy more than the current system. In the current system, guys get max money even when they fail to produce near the real max guys. Roy Hibbert? It sucks that crappy teams have to pay max money just to keep the only guy they were able to draft and it makes them unable to do anything else.

In a trade, yes the salary should affect the new team's cap. The CBA and the way teams are constructed (almost every team is near the cap), trades are impossible.

In the NBA, you pretty much have to trade using SCG guides and match $15 mil for $15 mil straight across. We know how stupid that is for MTG, but that's life in the NBA. Even though $15 mil worth of players for one team is way better than the other guy's $15.

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That Piston team was deep. Everyone was above average, except for Darko.

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****Attention****

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Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
That's 12

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Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
last time I checked, 23>12

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I'm only joking, by the by. It's fun poking at homers; seeing as I'm from the Tri-state region, reminding my knicks friends of their seasons of shortcomings is quite a joy.

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Originally posted by Kyosukee:
I think his general point is that one team's impressive winning streak is half of another team's impressive winning streak. Sure, they're both impressive, but one's in the way of like a popsicle stick bridge that can hold a bowling ball, and the other is in the way of a popsicle stick that can hold a bowler.

I'm only joking, by the by. It's fun poking at homers; seeing as I'm from the Tri-state region, reminding my knicks friends of their seasons of shortcomings is quite a joy.

I'm glad the Nuggers are doing so well this late in the season. Iggy was posting some atrocious numbers to start the season, as was Gallo. I'm glad my hairproduct king is rounding back into form.

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