Here are the essentials, as I see them, for the new site based on the feedback we've gotten so far:

- Trade Matcher
- Price Guide, actively updated
- Reference lists, transferred if possible!
- Mods/Admins (Same, some of the same, or new?)
- A "line of inheritance," or some other plan for when the Captain decides to abandon ship without telling the crew.
- Forums/boards
- Trading, both Magic and Non-Magic
- H/W lists (uniform input mode or per user as it is currently?)
- A "bad post report" button, or community karma smack feature.
- Anti-spam measures (taken care of primarily by updated code?)
- Better security a-la John Strickland (what does this look like?)
- Messaging system
- Karma system
- Account frozen after 1 year inactive, must answer security questions to re-activate.

We have had some other suggestions so far but this is what struck me as the "essential" stuff. This thread is intended not only as an arena for discussion and further suggestions, but also to help figure out what the leadership/ownership framework might look like. As previously mentioned, ParagonDave has offered potentially to fully fund the new site, and would then be sole owner; he is also willing to partially fund, so long as he has a voice/vote on the "council" or what have you, as per my understanding...I am sure he can clarify if necessary. Is there anyone else who is interested in putting forth either funding, having a say in the running of the site as a result, or has alternate ideas for sourcing funds? The Stack was mentioned as a means of acquiring some dough. Primarily we would need it to pay the coders, but there may be other expenses along the way.

Anyone's thoughts are welcome/appreciated, let's try to keep it constructive though folks. Thanks!

My question to the current Mods here would be whether or not they think more of them is necessary. If their work load is high, manageable, or low.

As far as 'The Stack' goes, I envisioned it going like this.

MOTLers send in some stuff to donate to the stack. This is how it was done in the past, and I remember it being pretty good. If Dave is on board for funding, it couldn't hurt to give him a boost with this fundraiser. Not only does it help him, but it lets everyone sort of "be a part" of building the new site. I know there are a lot of members who are passionate about this place.

Once donations start coming in, my idea was to start up a TCG Player account. I sell at TCG on a small scale (about 3 orders per day), and it moves stuff pretty fast, and pretty reliably.

quote:

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Why don't you guys make a society? Also known as a non-profit corporation (basically a corporation that does not pay dividends and has members instead of shareholders).

Have it own the site, including the domain. Makes it much easier to "pass the torch" and decisions can be made by a board of directors that meet every so often.

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Love this idea.

I honestly think the biggest hurdle would be transferring the reference list. I'm under the impression that would be impossible, so we'd need a way still to reward those members that have put their time in and garnered 500+ refs (I'm only around a 100, so not a huge deal for me, but I would like to still keep them if I could).

Another issue on my mind is we would need to somehow verify names as people signed up. For example, what would prevent me from signing up on MOTL 2.0 under the moniker "paragondave", and posing as Dave to rip new members? Even if I don't want to rip people but just be an ******* and steal the name, we certainly don't want to introduce that level of confusion. I imagine we could have some sort of confirmation email and make sure it matches up to the MOTL email or something. I'm just thinking out-loud, but it's a concern.

quote:

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Why don't you guys make a society? Also known as a non-profit corporation (basically a corporation that does not pay dividends and has members instead of shareholders).

Have it own the site, including the domain. Makes it much easier to "pass the torch" and decisions can be made by a board of directors that meet every so often. I'd offer to do it except that I'm a Canadian so I can only do a BC or Canadian such entity.

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I also really like this idea. Flood control is another feature that needs to be added to the above list as well.

quote:

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Originally posted by coasterdude84:
Love this idea.

I honestly think the biggest hurdle would be transferring the reference list. I'm under the impression that would be impossible, so we'd need a way still to reward those members that have put their time in and garnered 500+ refs (I'm only around a 100, so not a huge deal for me, but I would like to still keep them if I could).

Another issue on my mind is we would need to somehow verify names as people signed up. For example, what would prevent me from signing up on MOTL 2.0 under the moniker "paragondave", and posing as Dave to rip new members? Even if I don't want to rip people but just be an ******* and steal the name, we certainly don't want to introduce that level of confusion. I imagine we could have some sort of confirmation email and make sure it matches up to the MOTL email or something. I'm just thinking out-loud, but it's a concern.

I would certainly donate to the Stack.

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The reference thing is my biggest concern as well. I am not a super-prolific traders, so it has taken me the entirety of my MOTL career to build up the 150 or so I have; I'd really hate to lose them!

But seriously to do this we'd have to get someone like harbingerofthevoid on board to help figure out how to do things technically in a way that makes sense...with something more up-to-date and secure than MOTL (come on it stores our passwords in plain text).

I'd hope MOTL just sticks around but with the admins ignoring things and us not even know if MOTL turns into a pumpkin (site not getting renewed) there isn't long to do this.

is everyone here also on the facebook group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7111992674/

I also created a reddit sub but nobody really goes there yet
https://www.reddit.com/r/MOTL/

quote:

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Originally posted by AGO:
Could we run a kickstarter or a go fund me to get this rolling? Cash talks and will make this dream a reality.

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Pretty much right, we need to get the funds together. Never done the kickstarter thing, but I can look into it tomorrow afternoon and see what it entails...I imagine it's fairly simple. I can handle it or somebody else can, I have no preference regarding that.

quote:

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:

But seriously to do this we'd have to get someone like harbingerofthevoid on board to help figure out how to do things technically in a way that makes sense...with something more up-to-date and secure than MOTL (come on it stores our passwords in plain text).

is everyone here also on the facebook group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7111992674/

I also created a reddit sub but nobody really goes there yet
https://www.reddit.com/r/MOTL/

i just want to make sure that if MOTL does disappear we have a way to verify who each of us are from motl and know where we can continue to discuss.

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For my part I'm a member of the Facebook group, have posted there about this thread as well. I have discussed this with harbingerofthevoid, I believe he said he was gonna post up here shortly....he is on board to work on the coding, and to varying degrees BoltBait, Nder and Myy have said they could do the work/help as well. So indeed, we need to get the money together.

What about server space?

- Price Guide, actively updated
-- honestly, i've done ebay api work and can't quite duplicate the old functionality

- Reference lists, transferred if possible!
--

- Mods/Admins (Same, some of the same, or new?)
--

- A "line of inheritance," or some other plan for when the Captain decides to abandon ship without telling the crew.
-- should and would come with a new forum software

- Forums/boards
-- should and would come with a new forum software

- Trading, both Magic and Non-Magic
--

- H/W lists (uniform input mode or per user as it is currently?)
-- would need some work depending on a consensus about how much control in pigeon holing user input

- A "bad post report" button, or community karma smack feature.
-- should and would come with a new forum software

- Anti-spam measures (taken care of primarily by updated code?)
-- should and would come with a new forum software

- Better security a-la John Strickland (what does this look like?)
-- needs looking at

- Messaging system
-- not sure what this would be, IMs?

- Karma system
--

- Account frozen after 1 year inactive, must answer security questions to re-activate
-- should be able to come with a new forum software

IMO most issues besides what I think made MOTL MOTL could be locked up with a new forum. The other stuff, should be done with, and I hate to say it, "minimal" coding.

__________________
NEQUAQUAM VACUUM

Seems like money will be our biggest hurdle.
What about something similar to a kickstarter (or just a kickstarter) where we could have a friends of Motl awards.
This could be based on your donation level.
If you give 50.00 you get 'x' cool badge on your personal page. 100.00 gives you 'y' cool badge. It wouldn't cost us anything as "prize support" but would allow for those who are lifers on here to literately show it on their New profile page. It could even show up on all posts going forward. We could even come up with other digital awards. Not sure what it would look like though.

Just a thought. I do love the stack fundraiser as well, but this would be a low investment way of bringing in some money.

As is this site would not take hardly anything for resources to run. harbingerofthevoid tell me what you think you need to do this and I can begin going through what would be most suitable.

So we got pugowar on board to help with data mining and Child offering server space, better and better! I like the idea of medals or badges or something for donation levels to the kickstarter too, very cool.

quote:

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Originally posted by mm1983:
There could also be different links on the site that directs people to different stores like star city, tcgplayer, troll and toad, miniature market, da card world, etc if any of those stores or other stores want to provide X amount of funding to a new site like motl they can have a link to their store on the site.

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I can tell you that the site will be renewed when the time comes however, if you're very worried about that. Or, at least, I've talked to Nouv about it.

I am normally able to contact Nouv just about any time, and he usually answers me, or at least acknowledges that I've messaged him.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

Some other desiderata (though hardly baseline necessities):

*An articles forum or section! In my mind, we could it to post original content when we have it, but we could also use it to link to articles elsewhere on the internet (the way this works elsewhere is that one quotes a couple lines, usually some sort of thesis statement, and then links to the article), and invite discussion. Original content should go through an editor, but members could create new posts to discuss articles from elsewhere on the webz. (By the by, I'm happy to be an editor, when the time comes. At this point I've done quite a bit of it, and since I can't code it's pretty much all I can really contribute to the effort, other than my presence on the new site.)

*FAQ

*A spellcheck button?

A couple more thoughts:

*No pictures (in sigs, or as avatars)! (Pure personal preference, but I really don't like the clutter on a page.)

*On ripper security: It would hardly be foolproof, but perhaps there's a way of interposing New-MOTL directly into the trade process. Here's what I'm thinking. In order to conclude a trade via New-MOTL (and get the New-MOTL ref), one has to use New-MOTL to send one's trade partner trade confirmation form that has each party fill out the relevant details (cards to be traded, conditions, addresses, $, etc.). This acts as proof of trade (not sending, of course!) for dispute purposes. We also allow members to click a button or some such that searches the BTA for matches with email addresses/names/physical addresses (or perhaps the form can do it automatically, and give a warning if there's a match). What happens if there's a match is up to us; probably, people should be allowed to continue, since it's an imperfect measure (people move, have the same names, etc.). When the trade is concluded, both partners log in to the form and leave feedback. There could also be a button that leads straight to a BTA form (perhaps even autofilled with the relevant details). Trades can still happen with non New-MOTL members, but they won't count for New-MOTL references.

I think it would simplify the grievance process, since we'd at least have explicit trade confirmation (no more relying on emails/PMs) and dates. I also think it would be a fair bit safer, since it would ensure everyone runs at least a cursory BTA search prior to trading, it would cut down on rippers being able to spam their ebay buyers/create a lot of new email accounts for references so they can look legit on MOTL, and it cuts down on using email addresses that are close but not identical to members' real addresses.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

- Increase the social aspect of the boards to allow more posts. I've always disliked that there are one or two "mega threads" that are basically post everything in this thread. Lots of threads in a forum are a good thing. Increase the Off-Topic boards. I'd like to get to know people better, and it can build trust when trading with people as well.

- Increase the private message capacity! I hate that it only stores 50 messages. Does a private message take up that much data that it has to delete them?? Sometimes my PMs are deleted before a deal is even finalized, and it sucks, which brings me to my next point

- Have some way of adding current or ongoing trades to your account. For example, tt would be wonderful to be able to keep track that I agreed to trade Bob cards abc for his xyz, and the status of the trade is I have sent, and he has not yet shipped.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
PucaTrade might be a nice site for inspiration. It's somewhat ironic that we collectively **** on it when he posted about it here, but it's a pretty successful trading site. And it ain't cheap either for membership.

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Basically copy it without the points add forums and all the great stuff that makes MOTL what it is.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:
So I'm going through the kickstarter thing, and invariably they're gonna ask me for an account number to connect to it.

Who do we want handling this money? Do you guys want/trust me to do it? Do we want somebody else to do it? A mod? Somebody with X amount of refs? Totally open to suggestions here folks.

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Before we jump the gun on that, perhaps it would be best to get it organized however it's going to be. We should have all our ducks in a row before we hit kickstarter. We should first define:

1. a funding goal
2. Organization method - Society, single-ownership, etc.
3. board of directors
4. member responsibility
5. Site functionality, including everything that's been discussed here.
6. timeframe to accomplish
7. kickstarter rewards (people want kickbacks, even if it's something stupid)

quote:

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Originally posted by AGO:
Basically copy it without the points add forums and all the great stuff that makes MOTL what it is.

Also we should be able to add photos and such to the site. This is not 1998.

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No, no, no, no. No photos, no imgs, no avatars. No crap like that. You're right, this isn't 1998, this is the age where everyone thinks it's funny to post imgs and pics and the like that are NOT appropriate for a family-themed site, which I expect this new place will be?

The mods (on any site) have quite enough to do (for free) that they sure as hell don't need to go around policing photos and crap as well.

There are also a LOT more things that need to be thought about. Remember, Leshrac is a lawyer, he knew how to phrase the rules and regulations of this site so as to protect himself, his staff and his site. He may not be willing or able to update the site or do anything he or his representatives have said they'd do with the site, but I can assure you, if the site were being sued or the like, he'd be right on it.

Plus all the stuff Coaster said needs to be thought about, a name as well, as I'm fairly sure Leshie has MOTL trademarked or copywritten or whatever the word is.

As for the account thing, you guys are more than welcome to use my PP account to link to, if you'd like, up to you. I don't really know how kickstarter works though.

I'm also not quite sure that here is the place to discuss this sort of thing.. :-\ It seems rather disrespectful to Leshrac. *Shrug*

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

Jaz, nothing against you, but you personally do NOT want anything like that linked to your pp account. Because paypal will send you tax forms for it.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
"As for the account thing, you guys are more than welcome to use my PP account to link to, if you'd like, up to you. I don't really know how kickstarter works though."

Jaz, nothing against you, but you personally do NOT want anything like that linked to your pp account. Because paypal will send you tax forms for it.

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Ahhh, ok then. Nevermind, because that would come back to bite me in the butt with our building as well. Heh.

Sorry!

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.