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Author Topic:   The Rulings Thread, part 43 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
caquaa
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posted July 14, 2009 10:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
21. Shuffling
Shuffling must be done so that the faces of the cards cannot be seen. Regardless of the method used to shuffle, players’ decks must be sufficiently randomized. Each time players shuffle their deck, they must present their deck to their opponent for additional shuffling and/or cutting. Players may request to have a Judge shuffle their cards rather than pass that duty to their opponent, this request will be honored at a Judge’s discretion. By presenting their decks to their opponents, players are stating that their decks are correct, legal, and sufficiently randomized.

After decks are presented and accepted, any player who does not believe his or her opponent has made a reasonable effort to sufficiently randomize his or her deck must notify a Judge. The Head Judge has final authority to determine whether a deck has been sufficiently randomized. The Head Judge also has the authority to determine if a player has used reasonable effort to randomize his or her deck. If the Head Judge believes that either the deck has not been sufficiently randomized or that a player has not made a reasonable effort to randomize his or her deck, the player will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.

At Competitive and Professional level events players must always shuffle their opponents’ decks at the beginning of games. The Head Judge can mandate the shuffling of opponents’ decks at Regular Level Events as long as he or she announces this at the beginning of the tournament. If a shuffling effect takes place during gameplay, players may shuffle and must cut their opponents’ decks after the shuffling effect is completed.

Once players shuffle and/or cut their opponents’ decks, the cards are returned to their original owners. If the opponent has shuffled the player’s deck, that player may make one final cut.

Also note that a cut is simply splitting the deck in two and placing the top half under the bottom half. Anything more is considered a shuffle. I couldn't seem to locate this definition any longer in the floor/game rules but it should still hold true.

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orcishartillery
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posted July 14, 2009 11:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for orcishartillery Send a private message to orcishartillery Click to send orcishartillery an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Shaffer:
Another harms way question, if I cast safe passage and harms way, can I choose to redirect the 2 damage before it gets prevented.

Yes. As the affected player/controller of the affected object, you get to determine which of the two replacement/prevention effects to apply first. If you apply the Harm's Way replacement effect first, then that 2 damage will not be prevented by Safe Passage's prevention effect (assuming the Harm's Way didn't target yourself or a creature you control).

 
gcowhsu
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posted July 16, 2009 11:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
Under the new rules the Morhpling got nerfed since lethal damage will kill creatures and there is no longer a damage stack with combat. Is this true with all sacrifice creatures as well like Mogg fanatic. With the new rules will he be able to kill a creature with 2 toughness?

He would either deal 1 combat damage and then die without using his ability.
Or he would block a creature and then sac himself to do 1 damage to something.

Obviously there are a ton of creatures with abilities like this and they will all be nerfed?

 
caquaa
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posted July 16, 2009 12:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gcowhsu:
Under the new rules the Morhpling got nerfed since lethal damage will kill creatures and there is no longer a damage stack with combat. Is this true with all sacrifice creatures as well like Mogg fanatic. With the new rules will he be able to kill a creature with 2 toughness?

He would either deal 1 combat damage and then die without using his ability.
Or he would block a creature and then sac himself to do 1 damage to something.

Obviously there are a ton of creatures with abilities like this and they will all be nerfed?


There are no rules changes with the creatures. Combat damage simply doesn't use the stack. If they take lethal damage they are dead before you would receive priority.

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Lantis
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posted July 16, 2009 02:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lantis Click Here to Email Lantis Send a private message to Lantis Click to send Lantis an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Lantis's Have/Want ListView Lantis's Have/Want List
I use Twincast on a Bant Charm. Do I get to select which ability on the Bant Charm to use?
 
gcowhsu
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posted July 16, 2009 02:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
There are no rules changes with the creatures. Combat damage simply doesn't use the stack. If they take lethal damage they are dead before you would receive priority.


So then mogg fanatic can not do more then 1 point of damage because it would already be in the graveyard before you can use his sacrifice ability?

 
TerryJ15
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posted July 16, 2009 02:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TerryJ15 Click Here to Email TerryJ15 Send a private message to TerryJ15 Click to send TerryJ15 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by gcowhsu:
So then mogg fanatic can not do more then 1 point of damage because it would already be in the graveyard before you can use his sacrifice ability?

Yes.

 
caquaa
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posted July 16, 2009 02:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lantis:
I use Twincast on a Bant Charm. Do I get to select which ability on the Bant Charm to use?

503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics (name, mana cost, color, card type, supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, loyalty) and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on)

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Lantis
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posted July 16, 2009 08:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lantis Click Here to Email Lantis Send a private message to Lantis Click to send Lantis an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Lantis's Have/Want ListView Lantis's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics (name, mana cost, color, card type, supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, loyalty) and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on)


Thanks. So basically the mode can't be changed. I have to use whatever the opponent picked.

 
JoshSherman
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posted July 17, 2009 10:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Have/Want ListView JoshSherman's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Lantis:
Thanks. So basically the mode can't be changed. I have to use whatever the opponent picked.

That is correct.

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JackSpade
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posted July 19, 2009 10:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JackSpade Click Here to Email JackSpade Send a private message to JackSpade Click to send JackSpade an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hello all, two questions that came up during some casual games the other day.
If a player plays Runed Halo naming Banefire. Can another player later play a Banefire making x > 4 and hit the player with the Runed Halo?
And if I Wild Ricochet my opponents Vampiric tutor, he still gets to tutor and then i get a tutor of my own correct? Or can I get the effect twice?
Thanks for the help.
 
The Decepticons
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posted July 19, 2009 10:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Decepticons Click Here to Email The Decepticons Send a private message to The Decepticons Click to send The Decepticons an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Runed halo + Banefire

Card Text:
As Runed Halo enters the battlefield, name a card.
You have protection from the chosen name. (You can't be targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything with that name.)

Note how runed halo says that you cant be targeted by the named card. paying 5+ makes banefire uncounterable, and not preventable. but since halo says you cant be targeted, he cant cast banefire on you.


Vampiric tutor + Wild Ricochet

Vampiric tutor doesnt target a player or specificly target a card in the deck. it just says you(refering to the player casting) search for a card.

since it doesnt target in any way whatsoever, you cannot cast Wild Ricochet to copy the vampiric tutor

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Our_Benefactors
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posted July 19, 2009 11:02 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Our_Benefactors Click Here to Email Our_Benefactors Send a private message to Our_Benefactors Click to send Our_Benefactors an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JackSpade:
Hello all, two questions that came up during some casual games the other day.
If a player plays Runed Halo naming Banefire. Can another player later play a Banefire making x > 4 and hit the player with the Runed Halo?

No, because runed halo grants protection, which means you can't be targeted by the banefire in the first place.

quote:

And if I Wild Ricochet my opponents Vampiric tutor, he still gets to tutor and then i get a tutor of my own correct? Or can I get the effect twice?
Thanks for the help.


Actually, you'll tutor first because of the way that things resolve. But you won't get to tutor twice because V. Tutor has no targets that you could potentially change.

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JoshSherman
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posted July 19, 2009 12:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Have/Want ListView JoshSherman's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by JackSpade:
And if I Wild Ricochet my opponents Vampiric tutor, he still gets to tutor and then i get a tutor of my own correct? Or can I get the effect twice?
Thanks for the help.

You cannot get the effect twice. Because Vamp doesn't target, you can't switch your opponent's to target you, but based on the wording of Wild Richochet, the Vamp is a legal target for it.

Once Ricochet resolves, your copy of Vamp goes on the stack and will resolve first. Then your opponent's does.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by JoshSherman on July 19, 2009]

 
Gigamaster89
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posted July 19, 2009 10:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Gigamaster89 Click Here to Email Gigamaster89 Send a private message to Gigamaster89 Click to send Gigamaster89 an Instant MessageVisit Gigamaster89's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Terror targets my creature, I respond by sliding it out with Astral Slide. Does the Terror have to re-choose it's target or does it fizzle out?

Does Gilded Light protect my creatures too or is "you" referring to the player itself only? (direct)

 
Cab
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posted July 19, 2009 11:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Cab Click Here to Email Cab Send a private message to Cab Click to send Cab an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gigamaster89:
Terror targets my creature, I respond by sliding it out with Astral Slide. Does the Terror have to re-choose it's target or does it fizzle out?

Does Gilded Light protect my creatures too or is "you" referring to the player itself only? (direct)


1. Terror question: The terror "fizzles." Fizzle isn't an actual term that is used, but everyone knows what it means so no worries. What happens is that Terror targets your creature. Priority is then passed to you and you are given a chance to respond. You respond with sliding out the creature. Terror now checks to see if its initial target is still viable, and since it is not, the terror resolves but nothing is destroyed.

2. The "you" in Gilded Light refers only to the player himself/herself.

Someone else might be able to give a little bit more technically correct response.

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caquaa
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posted July 19, 2009 11:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cab:
Terror now checks to see if its initial target is still viable, and since it is not, the terror resolves but nothing is destroyed.

Someone else might be able to give a little bit more technically correct response.


Terror never actually resolves. Its "countered upon resolution" aka fizzles.

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Lantis
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posted July 21, 2009 05:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Lantis Click Here to Email Lantis Send a private message to Lantis Click to send Lantis an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Lantis's Have/Want ListView Lantis's Have/Want List
Are shapeshifters (like Thornling) considered every creature type at the same time? I heard this from someone, but can't find the official ruling on it.
 
iheartp9
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posted July 21, 2009 05:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iheartp9 Click Here to Email iheartp9 Send a private message to iheartp9 Click to send iheartp9 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iheartp9's Have/Want ListView iheartp9's Have/Want List
Nah, Thornling only has the creature types elemental shapeshifter. The other shapeshifters have all creature types because they have the characteristic setting ability "changeling".
 
AEther Storm
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posted July 22, 2009 04:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AEther Storm Click Here to Email AEther Storm Send a private message to AEther Storm Click to send AEther Storm an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AEther Storm's Have/Want ListView AEther Storm's Have/Want List
Just checking here:
If I have Akroma, Angel of Wrath in my graveyard and I cast Animate Dead on it, does she stay in play or does the protection ability kick in when she comes into play, and they both die?

Same goes for Inkwell Leviathan. Does the shroud prevent the Animate Dead to become attached to it so they both would be put back into the graveyard?

(Oracle is down at the moment )

thanks in advance

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Hand 'm over!

 
stacker
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posted July 22, 2009 05:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stacker Click Here to Email stacker Send a private message to stacker Click to send stacker an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View stacker's Have/Want ListView stacker's Have/Want List
If the creature card put into play has Protection from Black (or a similar effect that prevents Animate Dead from legally being attached), then it will fail to become attached and it as per Rule 212.4k, which states that an Aura trying to move onto an illegal permanent will stay where it is. Then the Animate Dead will go to the graveyard as an Aura that is not enchanting anything. This will sacrifice the creature as well, as stated by the card text. [D'Angelo 2007/10/20]

shroud only applies for in play, you can enchant graveyard shroud no problem. after it comes into play animate dead is no longer targeting

 
The Decepticons
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posted July 22, 2009 05:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Decepticons Click Here to Email The Decepticons Send a private message to The Decepticons Click to send The Decepticons an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
^topic^

actualy last week i had to animate dead an akroma so i could kill one that was in play

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PortlisX
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posted July 22, 2009 06:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for PortlisX Click Here to Email PortlisX Send a private message to PortlisX Click to send PortlisX an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View PortlisX's Have/Want ListView PortlisX's Have/Want List
Super simple rules question because I'm a complete noob when it comes to actually PLAYING magic these days.

Ghostly prison:

Does it stack? IE, if I have 2 of them in play does my opponent need to pay (4) for each attacking creature?

My friends are trying to tell me that it does not, and even if I have 4 ghostly prisons in play that they still only need to pay (2). I think they are wrong. Are they?

 
Our_Benefactors
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posted July 22, 2009 06:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Our_Benefactors Click Here to Email Our_Benefactors Send a private message to Our_Benefactors Click to send Our_Benefactors an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PortlisX:
Super simple rules question because I'm a complete noob when it comes to actually PLAYING magic these days.

Ghostly prison:

Does it stack? IE, if I have 2 of them in play does my opponent need to pay (4) for each attacking creature?

My friends are trying to tell me that it does not, and even if I have 4 ghostly prisons in play that they still only need to pay (2). I think they are wrong. Are they?


They stack.

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AEther Storm
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posted July 23, 2009 08:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AEther Storm Click Here to Email AEther Storm Send a private message to AEther Storm Click to send AEther Storm an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AEther Storm's Have/Want ListView AEther Storm's Have/Want List
Another reanimate question:

suppose I have a creature into play that I've reanimated with Animate Dead. then my opponent destroys the creature or I need to sac it somehow. Does the Animate Dead trigger again and recur my creature (a bit, but not the same, like the Worldgorger Dragon combo), or has that effect passed?

probably knowing the answer, but still hoping.

Thanks in advance

__________________
/Thunder in the wind/No rain/Peace mourns it's passing/

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those
who mind don't matter and those who matter don't
mind." -Dr. Seuss

Current AEther Storm count: 1384
Hand 'm over!

 

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