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Author Topic:   The Rulings Thread, part 43 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
caquaa
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posted July 28, 2009 11:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Gigamaster89: the way you're describing it is pre 6th edition rules. Back in the dark ages, lol. You benefit (as the player with the force spikes0 because if you cast two at once if they can't pay for both they choose to pay for neither leaving them one extra mana available.

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Malice327
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posted July 29, 2009 10:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Malice327 Click Here to Email Malice327 Send a private message to Malice327 Click to send Malice327 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I am a bit confused by how Open the Vaults interacts with aura's. If the board gets wiped, and my opponent has every eventide / shadowmoor two color aura known to man and 2 scuttlemuts in his graveyard, and he open the vaults, everything comes into play at the same time correct? Does this mean that he isn't able to enchant creatures coming into play with aura's because they were not legal targets as the aura came into play? or do effects like open the vaults allow the controller of the spell to pick the order stuff comes into play?

Thanks for the help.

 
caquaa
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posted July 29, 2009 11:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malice327:
I am a bit confused by how Open the Vaults interacts with aura's. If the board gets wiped, and my opponent has every eventide / shadowmoor two color aura known to man and 2 scuttlemuts in his graveyard, and he open the vaults, everything comes into play at the same time correct? Does this mean that he isn't able to enchant creatures coming into play with aura's because they were not legal targets as the aura came into play? or do effects like open the vaults allow the controller of the spell to pick the order stuff comes into play?

Thanks for the help.



212.4j. If an Aura is coming into play under a player’s control by any means other than by being played, and the effect putting it into play doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura comes into play. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects. If no legal choice can be made, see rule 212.4k.

212.4k. If an Aura is coming into play and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard instead of coming into play.

The enchantments and artifacts all come into play simultaneously so an aura can't enchant an artifact creature being brought back by open the vaults.

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flavor_of_the_weak
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posted July 30, 2009 01:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for flavor_of_the_weak Click Here to Email flavor_of_the_weak Send a private message to flavor_of_the_weak Click to send flavor_of_the_weak an Instant MessageVisit flavor_of_the_weak's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What happens if you can't return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand does Cruel Ultimatum 2 other abilities still happen? 'draw three cards, then gain 5 life.'


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[Edited 1 times, lastly by flavor_of_the_weak on July 30, 2009]

 
stacker
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posted July 30, 2009 01:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stacker Click Here to Email stacker Send a private message to stacker Click to send stacker an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View stacker's Have/Want ListView stacker's Have/Want List
yes, the only thing it requires is there to be a target opponent, the rest it'll do as much as possible, e.g. even if opp has no creature to sac
 
Gigamaster89
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posted July 31, 2009 06:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Gigamaster89 Click Here to Email Gigamaster89 Send a private message to Gigamaster89 Click to send Gigamaster89 an Instant MessageVisit Gigamaster89's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I play something, he Circular Logic while he has 1 card in the graveyard, he response to his OWN logic, he discared 2 cards to an on field mongrel, making 3 cards in the grave.

Do I have to pay 1 or 3 for the logic? (It was 1 when he played it but 3 when it resolve.)

 
Our_Benefactors
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posted July 31, 2009 07:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Our_Benefactors Click Here to Email Our_Benefactors Send a private message to Our_Benefactors Click to send Our_Benefactors an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gigamaster89:
I play something, he Circular Logic while he has 1 card in the graveyard, he response to his OWN logic, he discared 2 cards to an on field mongrel, making 3 cards in the grave.

Do I have to pay 1 or 3 for the logic? (It was 1 when he played it but 3 when it resolve.)


You pay for how many cards he has in his yard on resolution.

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Iron-Man
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posted August 02, 2009 11:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Iron-Man Click Here to Email Iron-Man Send a private message to Iron-Man Click to send Iron-Man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Question: Does Wheel of Sun and Moon prevent taking the damage from Megrim via discarding?

it came up in a friendly game and neither of us were 100% sure which way to go with that.

 
The Decepticons
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posted August 02, 2009 11:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Decepticons Click Here to Email The Decepticons Send a private message to The Decepticons Click to send The Decepticons an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
If a card would be put into enchanted player's graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is revealed and put on the bottom of that player's library.

the card going to the bottom of the deck instead of the graveyard is a replacement effect. however is something causes you to discard a card and it is replaced by going elseware, its still concidered discarded, so your still going to take the 2 damage from megrim.

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gar
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posted August 02, 2009 01:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gar Click Here to Email gar Send a private message to gar Click to send gar an Instant MessageVisit gar's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gar's Have/Want ListView gar's Have/Want List
I have a Wheel of Sun and Moon in play, enchanting myself.

Opponent casts Telemin Performance, I have no creatures in my deck.

Did I just get milled?

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iheartp9
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posted August 02, 2009 01:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iheartp9 Click Here to Email iheartp9 Send a private message to iheartp9 Click to send iheartp9 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iheartp9's Have/Want ListView iheartp9's Have/Want List
You did not get milled. When telemin performance resolves you reveal your entire deck. Once they can't find a creature the entire deck is put into the graveyard. However, Wheel of Sun and Moon creates a replacement effect that causes you to put those cards on the bottom of your library instead. It's also worth noting that if an effect instructs you to move multiple cards to a zone and it doesn't specify the order then the order's your choice. So in effect they let you stack your entire deck.
 
iheartp9
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posted August 02, 2009 01:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iheartp9 Click Here to Email iheartp9 Send a private message to iheartp9 Click to send iheartp9 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iheartp9's Have/Want ListView iheartp9's Have/Want List
Wheel of Sun and Moon doesn't trigger it's a replacement effect (that's important for things like stifle, trickbind, etc).

Also:

quote:
If you are going to answer a question, please be 100% sure that your answer is correct. If you are just guessing or *think* you know the answer, keep it to yourself. There are plenty of judges and people who will know it correctly, and if multiple answers are given, it just confuses the person who asked.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by iheartp9 on August 02, 2009]
 
jleaf
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posted August 03, 2009 06:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jleaf Send a private message to jleaf Click to send jleaf an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Quick question. If I have a goblin welder in play who is no longer affected by summoning sickness and I spend him to use his ability. Can I unsummon the goblin welder to my hand, play him, and then use his ability again this turn? Or, would my goblin welder have summoning sickness.

Thanks for the help.
Jackie

 
The Decepticons
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posted August 03, 2009 06:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Decepticons Click Here to Email The Decepticons Send a private message to The Decepticons Click to send The Decepticons an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jleaf:
Quick question. If I have a goblin welder in play who is no longer affected by summoning sickness and I spend him to use his ability. Can I unsummon the goblin welder to my hand, play him, and then use his ability again this turn? Or, would my goblin welder have summoning sickness.

Thanks for the help.
Jackie


No. if he leave play he has no memory of being in play previously. and since you just played him again you have to wait till your next turn befor you can use him.

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jleaf
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posted August 03, 2009 07:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jleaf Send a private message to jleaf Click to send jleaf an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
One more question for tonight. If there are no cards in any graveyard and I play a stonecloaker, what happens? Do I get to keep the stonecloaker in play?

Thanks again.
Jackie

 
The Decepticons
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posted August 03, 2009 08:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Decepticons Click Here to Email The Decepticons Send a private message to The Decepticons Click to send The Decepticons an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
When Stonecloaker enters the battlefield, return a creature you control to its owner's hand.
When Stonecloaker enters the battlefield, exile target card from a graveyard.

quote:
Originally posted by jleaf:
One more question for tonight. If there are no cards in any graveyard and I play a stonecloaker, what happens? Do I get to keep the stonecloaker in play?

Thanks again.
Jackie


the requirement when it comes into play is a triggered ability. when stoneclaker comes in its going to tell you to look for a card and get rid of it. however if there isnt anything to target the ability just doesnt happen. At this time though the cloaker is already in play.

Note though that the comes into play ability is manditory, but it doesnt say that if you cant sacrifice it. as well the ability doesnt target a card while your casting it so its not a requirement to have a card in a graveyard in order to be able to play the creature.

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jleaf
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posted August 05, 2009 06:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jleaf Send a private message to jleaf Click to send jleaf an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Question came up today involving two cards:

Barbarian Ring - Threshold - R(TAP):Sacrifice Barbarian Ring. Barbarian Ring deals 2 damage to targer creature or player.

Flickerwisp - When flickerwisp comes into play, remove another target permanent from the game. Return that card to play under its owners control at end of turn.

If my opponent activates the barbarian ring, and I respond by using Aether Vial to bring Flickerwisp into play, does the opponent still 2 damage to me? My thoughts were the flickerwisp removes the barbarian ring from the game. Then, when the barbarian activation comes off the stack, it tries to sacrifice the barbarian ring but it is no longer in play so I don't take any damage. Is this correct?

Thanks for the help.

 
caquaa
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posted August 05, 2009 07:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jleaf:
Question came up today involving two cards:

Barbarian Ring - Threshold - R(TAP):Sacrifice Barbarian Ring. Barbarian Ring deals 2 damage to targer creature or player.

Flickerwisp - When flickerwisp comes into play, remove another target permanent from the game. Return that card to play under its owners control at end of turn.

If my opponent activates the barbarian ring, and I respond by using Aether Vial to bring Flickerwisp into play, does the opponent still 2 damage to me? My thoughts were the flickerwisp removes the barbarian ring from the game. Then, when the barbarian activation comes off the stack, it tries to sacrifice the barbarian ring but it is no longer in play so I don't take any damage. Is this correct?

Thanks for the help.


couldn't be more wrong.

Sacrificing the barbarian ring is part of the cost. The ring is in the graveyard and the ability is on the stack, THEN you can put your flickerwisp in play and choose something that's still in play.

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iheartp9
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posted August 06, 2009 01:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iheartp9 Click Here to Email iheartp9 Send a private message to iheartp9 Click to send iheartp9 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View iheartp9's Have/Want ListView iheartp9's Have/Want List
It's not so much that he's completely off base, but he got the wording on the card wrong and that's why he's mistaken. The way he's written the wording for Barbarian Ring he would actually be able to do what he's trying to do (and yes, in that situation you would still have taken damage). Instead of just telling him he's horribly wrong explanations are helpful.

The current wording for Barbarian Ring's second ability is:
r, tap, sacrifice barbarian ring: deal 2 damage to target creature or player (play this ability only if you have threshold).

Everything that comes before the colon in a cards activated ability needs to happen before the ability is put on the stack. In this case saccing the ring needs to be done before you'd have a chance to respond. Note that your original wording had the sacrificing after the colon, which would all you to respond. That's partially where your confusion came from.

 
whitemage57
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posted August 06, 2009 05:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for whitemage57 Click Here to Email whitemage57 Send a private message to whitemage57 Click to send whitemage57 an Instant MessageVisit whitemage57's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View whitemage57's Have/Want ListView whitemage57's Have/Want List
OK, with Pardic Miner, if someone plays a land but you responce you sacrifice the Miner, does his land 'fizzle' (i.e. go to the graveyard) I know playing a land isn't a spell but if you are in response making so your opponent cant play lands in response how can they now on the stack play a land after?



[Edited 1 times, lastly by whitemage57 on August 06, 2009]

 
JoshSherman
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posted August 06, 2009 06:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for JoshSherman Click Here to Email JoshSherman Send a private message to JoshSherman Click to send JoshSherman an Instant MessageVisit JoshSherman's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View JoshSherman's Have/Want ListView JoshSherman's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by whitemage57:
OK, with Pardic Miner, if someone plays a land but you responce you sacrifice the Miner, does his land 'fizzle' (i.e. go to the graveyard) I know playing a land isn't a spell but if you are in response making so your opponent cant play lands in response how can they now on the stack play a land after?


Playing a land is a special game action that does not use the stack. You can (normally) only do it during your main phase once per turn, while the stack is empty. Since it does not use the stack, priority does not pass to you when an opponent plays a land. You would not be able to respond with Pardic Miner, Moonhold, or Solfatara (or anything else) .

If you want to prevent your opponent from playing a land, the best idea is to paly the spell or ability during your opponent's upkeep.

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PBallPsycho
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posted August 06, 2009 12:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for PBallPsycho Click Here to Email PBallPsycho Send a private message to PBallPsycho Click to send PBallPsycho an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm considering a T1.5 Blue Control, and my questions involve Arcane Lab and Isocron Scepter.

I imprint Delay onto a scepter. Now, with Arcane Lab out, if I "pull the rod", does it count as my spell for the turn? Also, when the Delay ends, will it count for my opponent's spell for the turn?

 
Our_Benefactors
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posted August 06, 2009 04:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Our_Benefactors Click Here to Email Our_Benefactors Send a private message to Our_Benefactors Click to send Our_Benefactors an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PBallPsycho:
I'm considering a T1.5 Blue Control, and my questions involve Arcane Lab and Isocron Scepter.

I imprint Delay onto a scepter. Now, with Arcane Lab out, if I "pull the rod", does it count as my spell for the turn? Also, when the Delay ends, will it count for my opponent's spell for the turn?


yes and yes

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VxMurDokxV
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posted August 10, 2009 05:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for VxMurDokxV Click Here to Email VxMurDokxV Send a private message to VxMurDokxV Click to send VxMurDokxV an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Here's one that's has my mind rapped up.

It's my opponets turn and he controls a Dark Confidant, he taps three mana and casts Victimize. Can I or Do I have response time to Swords to Plowshares his Dark Confidant?

If not what can I do besides countering the spell do I ever get priority before the spell resolves?.... basically can I target his creature inresponse to him casting victimize and also what are the rules of addition costs? Thanks for all the help guys.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by VxMurDokxV on August 10, 2009]

 
BoltBait
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posted August 10, 2009 05:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for BoltBait Click Here to Email BoltBait Send a private message to BoltBait Click to send BoltBait an Instant MessageVisit BoltBait's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by VxMurDokxV:
Here's one that's has my mind rapped up.

It's my opponets turn and he controls a Dark Confidant, he taps three mana and casts Victimize. Can I or Do I have response time to Swords to Plowshares his Dark Confidant?

If not what can I do besides countering the spell do I ever get priority before the spell resolves?.... basically can I target his creature inresponse to him casting victimize and also what are the rules of addition costs? Thanks for all the help guys.


Because saccing a creature is a cost to play Victimize, by the time he announces the spell, the creature is already gone. You can not target it.

EDIT: If you counter his spell, the creature is still gone (because it was sacced in order to pay for the spell).

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by BoltBait on August 10, 2009]


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