quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:
Does SCG really control 70% of the secondary market?

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depends what you mean by 'control'. do they hold 70% of the available card stock? hell no. they have a pretty big influence on card prices, sure. a lot of smaller LGS just blatantly charge whatever SCG charges. additionally, whenever SCG bumps their buy/sell prices for format staples, you can expect most other online retailers to do the same. However, a savvy shopper (or any idiot with half a brain) can always beat SCG prices, buying AND selling.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:
Does SCG really control 70% of the secondary market?

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If you mean in context of legacy values, it sounds a lot less ludicrous. If SCG stopped running their legacy opens, then legacy staples WOULD take a massive price hit, albeit one that takes 6 months to take full effect.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
70% seems low. Around my neck of the woods there aren't even other websites that sell magic cards. Or so it seems...

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quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
They at least have the illusion that they are the controlling force in the market.

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So what happens when that "illusion" is reality?

quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:
Does SCG really control 70% of the secondary market?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
So what happens when that "illusion" is reality?

The people who think SCG is NOT a driving force in the market make me laugh. Who do you think controls all the prices?

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Players for the most part. If a card is played the price plummets and SCG has now ay to control that. The illusion is that they control all prices on everything.

Cards that are old can be influenced by one guy hording that card (See Deathlace) so nearly anyone with a 7 figure pocket book can influence the prices.

People sure are stubborn on here

http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005336.html

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
Players for the most part. If a card is played the price plummets and SCG has now ay to control that. The illusion is that they control all prices on everything.

Cards that are old can be influenced by one guy hording that card (See Deathlace) so nearly anyone with a 7 figure pocket book can influence the prices.

People sure are stubborn on here

http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005336.html

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quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
So what happens when that "illusion" is reality?

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quote:

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Originally posted by WCFmo:
I figured I had to post my awesome EDH deck on here because it is very awesome. I need Golem's Heart against artifact decks, that's why I have ** next to it.

Horde of Notions - General

Woodland Changeling
Emberstrike Duo
Shriekmaw
Tideforce Elemental
Chandra's Phoenix
Viridian Acolyte
Quickchange
Frozen Solid
Fire Servant
Cosi's Ravager **
Tectonic Rift
Obelisk of Grixis
Vent Sentinel
Dawn Elemental
Shields of Velis Vel
Changeling Berserker
Turtleshell Changeling
Tunnel Ignus
Numbing Dose
Rage Forger
Changeling Hero
Arbalest Elite
Conundrum Sphinx
Alpha Tyrranax
Ingot Chewer
Wooly Thoctar
Deathbringer Thoctar
Underwold Dreams
Shadow of Doubt
Sprouting Thrinax
Breath of Malfegor
Orim's Thunder
Chrome Steed
Serum Raker
Kemba's Skyguard
Yixlid Jailer
Firebreathing
Oxidda Scrapmelter
Golem's Heart **
Crib Swap
Rise from the Grave
Vampire Nighthawk
Kitesail Apprentice
Plague Stinger
Mage Slayer
Jaddi Lifestrider
Water Servant
Changeling Sentinel
Corrupted Resolve
Gather Specimens
Sacellum Godspeaker
Flamekin Spitfire
Dawnfluke
Rockslide Elemental
Tidewater Minion
Voracious Hatchling
Wings of Velis Vel
Amoeboid Changeling
Fire-Belly Changeling
Skeletal Changeling
War-Spike Changeling

Ancient Ziggurat
Jwar Isle Refuge
Grixis Panorama
Russian Green White Storage Land
Terramorphic Expanse
Swamp x 5
Plains x 6
Forest x 5
Island x 9
Mountain x 8

I also took a picture of my deck because it is pretty cool, check it out.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mujcc/hordeofnotionsdeck.jpg
[url=http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mujcc/hordeofnotionsdeck.jpg][/url]

Please note I am joking . This is the finished EDH deck that is full of signed foil cards by MOTL users. Thank you everyone who helped me out! Especially OGB, and the mods for signing the General.

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Anyone interested in this deck, I thought about giving it away as a MOTL secret santa gift but didn't. I don't play magic (in fact, I've never played this deck) hardly anymore, but I would never sell it...curious if anyone here is interested in owning this one of a kind deck. I still may keep it, wondering if any worth MOTL member wants my deck in their house...

quote:

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Originally posted by WeedIan:
People sure are stubborn on here

http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005336.html

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Never liked that guy.

Post him to buy cards, he'll reply with more expensive prices than posted. BS disclaimer on his sales "not always up to date on prices." I call BS because he had a new thread almost everyday.

On the BTA, it's silly that he would even bring up that he has 100+ refs as if it really mattered; because I clearly remember not dealing with that guy early on. And why did I refuse to deal with him? Because he had less than 10 refs and wasn't willing to send first to me (I have 300+ refs). Refs mean you're good, right? It's always a one-way street with buttholes on MOTL. (No pun intended, so stay classy MOTL .

He also had this MOTL'er jesterzcap constantly post to up his sales threads. Seriously, jesterzcap has 112 total posts and I'm sure most of them were on mob's sales threads. Seriously, the guy is the 1st poster on his thread more than often than not. Are they the same guy? Both from same place and jester doesn't provide email info.

Not going to buy that they just deal locally. If they dealt locally that much, they'd just have conducted business through non-MOTL means by then.

Funny enough that jester still has 0 refs. Mob's prices are higher than other MOTL'ers sales enough that jesterz could have bought from other sellers, pay for postage and still be ahead.

quote:

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Originally posted by mobproctor:
Jazz, ban me.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
Do you buy singles from their site?

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
I do not represent magic players as a whole. Not sure what you're doing by quoting me here (esp since I have purchased from you). All I am saying is that they are a driving force on prices (i.e. Watch what happens to legacy if they stop holding events). The number of times I've had people use SCG as a price guide for their trades is countless (either SCG or TCG (although TCG is now "fine" since the low is relatively what the card actually goes for and/or the % of difference in price between my cards and theirs is like 0-5%).

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Well, just because people use "SCG" for price doesn't mean SCG has any control over price.

Some of the Canadian posters have mentioned that "SCG" essentially is the money cost for cards where they live. I can understand why that would be the case, but it's not because SCG controls anything about the market.

If you live in a far-out place and cards are not easy to buy for whatever reason (eg shipping to Canada from US), why would a LGS sell for something other than SCG? What are you going to do if you don't buy from LGS, what go to SCG so you can pay shipping and wait? If you have a captive market, why accept less than what a competitor would charge?

So you say, SCG controls the market because of that? The fallacy in that line of thinking is SCG doesn't control the price. SCG cannot go list all of their Pack Rats at $5 and sell them. Sure, the industry does play follow the leader (SCG is the leader) but the leader depends on players and collectors.

Players and collectors control 100% of the secondary market.

You think SCG completely canceling Legacy Opens would tank Legacy prices?
What if players completely quit playing Legacy, would that tank Legacy prices?

quote:

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Originally posted by pugowar:
Whats the best way to deal with Splinter Twin in my Jund Sideboard? (Modern)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Absurd90:
If you want to be ballsy run Rakdos Charm

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quote:

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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
I do not represent magic players as a whole. Not sure what you're doing by quoting me here (esp since I have purchased from you). All I am saying is that they are a driving force on prices (i.e. Watch what happens to legacy if they stop holding events). The number of times I've had people use SCG as a price guide for their trades is countless (either SCG or TCG (although TCG is now "fine" since the low is relatively what the card actually goes for and/or the % of difference in price between my cards and theirs is like 0-5%).

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It wasn't meant to be insulting at all. I was just trying to sort of make a point.

That being there are a large group of people who do use SCG has the bible, but it's very hard to say that they control the market as much as 70%. Basically because you and I, and most MOTLers are like... "yeah right" to their prices.

You are informed enough to know that typing other things into the address bar of your browser will yield cheaper prices, and yield them consistently.

Granted that MOTL requires some work to get those cheaper prices, but still. There are a ton of other dealer sites out there, and if you shop around you can often shave like $5 per card off of big items. Of course, if you use Ebay even more.

__________________
Most References in Massachusetts
80th All-time

quote:

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Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
I highly doubt SCG bailing on Legacy would end the format, seeing how TCGPlayer or another site would immediately capitalize on that opening to run their own events.

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This, and/or WoTC picks up the slack, as Legacy events were a big boon for them...

quote:

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Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
I highly doubt SCG bailing on Legacy would end the format, seeing how TCGPlayer or another site would immediately capitalize on that opening to run their own events.

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You are assuming TCGplayer (or any other vendor) has the infrastructure, inventory, and personnel to simply start running a nationwide tourney. TCGplayer runs less than 12 diamond level (5k prize pool) events a year, and last I heard they are still only running 1 invitational a year.

The sad part is that SCG isn't even covering half the potential demand for high-level events around the country. The only reason SCG isn't running in 2 locations every week is because it cannibalizes the marketing value of their stream and event coverage, not to mention the smaller margins of on-site sales. But if WotC keeps breaking sales records of sealed product, it's just a matter of time before someone steps up to challenge SCG in terms of high-level tournament series.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
You are assuming TCGplayer (or any other vendor) has the infrastructure, inventory, and personnel to simply start running a nationwide tourney. TCGplayer runs less than 12 diamond level (5k prize pool) events a year, and last I heard they are still only running 1 invitational a year.

The sad part is that SCG isn't even covering half the potential demand for high-level events around the country. The only reason SCG isn't running in 2 locations every week is because it cannibalizes the marketing value of their stream and event coverage, not to mention the smaller margins of on-site sales. But if WotC keeps breaking sales records of sealed product, it's just a matter of time before someone steps up to challenge SCG in terms of high-level tournament series.

With all of that said, there's very little SCG can't do in terms of price setting. They single-handedly doubled the price of ZEN blue fetches overnight. They have driven the price of modern staples to triple their value from 2 years ago (see kitchen finks, IoK, remand, etc.). They do this because they have the cash flow, the sales volume, and the market visibility that is unparalleled in the secondary market.

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It's not that other people don't have the resources to do it. They just don't have the balls.

Who is not really living up to their potential, WOTC or SCG? SCG can run a tourney in the US almost weekly, but WOTC can't? It's WOTC who is really missing out. Instead of having one huge GP Circuit, they could have 2-3 huge GP Circuits (ea. continent).

SCG didn't double/tirple any price overnight. You think those prices would be where they are at if WOTC didn't sanction Modern? WOTC sanctioned Modern and PLAYERS are slowly picking it up.

You think SCG sells EDH foils for $$$ just because they can? Without players, there wouldn't even be EDH.

Please, players and collectors control 100% of the secondary market.

quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:
It's not that other people don't have the resources to do it. They just don't have the balls.

Who is not really living up to their potential, WOTC or SCG? SCG can run a tourney in the US almost weekly, but WOTC can't? It's WOTC who is really missing out. Instead of having one huge GP Circuit, they could have 2-3 huge GP Circuits (ea. continent).

SCG didn't double/tirple any price overnight. You think those prices would be where they are at if WOTC didn't sanction Modern? WOTC sanctioned Modern and PLAYERS are slowly picking it up.

You think SCG sells EDH foils for $$$ just because they can? Without players, there wouldn't even be EDH.

Please, players and collectors control 100% of the secondary market.

Jaz, thank you for banning mob.

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Why would WoTC run events at a loss when they can let someone else do the job for them and still get the gains from it?

Only way I see WoTC doing more events is if SCG stops, and no one else picks up the slack.

As for prices, Player/Collectors have a much smaller say in price, MANY people complain prices are to high, and yet they remain high, if players truly had the final say, that wouldn't be the case.

Fact is SCG is the most visible dealer of Magic singles, no other site and/or store comes even close, this allows them a great deal of control on of Magic on many levels, ranging from price to events.

quote:

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Originally posted by choco man:

Please, players and collectors control 100% of the secondary market.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
As for prices, Player/Collectors have a much smaller say in price, MANY people complain prices are to high, and yet they remain high, if players truly had the final say, that wouldn't be the case.

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You're talking about cheapskates...yes, there's lots of them. People who want duals for $10. Then people who want duals for $1 and so on and so on.

Be cheap, don't buy cards...just don't blame anyone else for what's essentially a personal problem (do want to buy cards). It's easy for anyone who doesn't want to purchase cards to point the finger at SCG/collectors/hoarders and blame them.

Cards are expensive because SCG says so? Go ahead and phrase it that way because that's what you mean to say. Then see who'd buy that, because I don't buy that point of view.

Since you think SCG or any retailer has control over prices: how come SCG can't price their Pack Rats @ $5 and sell-out?

It's because players don't use them and collectors don't collect them. When a card is expensive and priced high by a retailer, it's because players use them or collectors want them.

Does SCG pricing Vraska @ $39.99 make her $39.99?

quote:

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
I'm totally in agreement with this. However, I think there's a good amount of people who are essentially waiving that ability, which is why "SCG controls 70% of the market".

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I agree with this. It just goes to show that people are willing to pay for a brand name that has some trust and a decent service. I've known many people to buy a whole deck via SCG, play it, then dismantle and sell it straight back to SCG.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6537/draft3m.png

3-0 6-0 clean sweep baby

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted