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Author Topic:   MOTL--an "update" of sorts
Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
posted March 19, 2015 08:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi folks. Here's what I know, which isn't much.

MOTL is currently not being updated, at least to my knowledge. Leshrac, aka Eddie Holman, the owner, is not responding to emails and has not been on in a while. The admins, Inca911 and whoever else, are also not responding and have not been on.

Of the other moderators, I think BoltBait, Nderdog, Junichi, and Jazaray have been on most recently. Everyone else is effectively retired as far as I know. The problem is that the site has become somewhat of a ghost town, and most of us have grown up and lost at least some interest in Magic.

I am the only active moderator, at least right now. If you need to get ahold of me, or of a moderator in general, PM or email me. You can try to get ahold of the others, but I don't think it's likely to succeed.

[Edit]: Junichi may be around as well.

Also, in case you're curious, as a moderator I can smack, ban, open, close, and delete. I cannot unban, update the price guide, add new moderators, or access MOTL's source code.

If you see rules violations, please post them in the post for rules violations and I will deal with them. If it's urgent, you can email or PM me.

I have removed the rule about posting "PM sent." I don't think anyone is seriously abusing that, and if people start getting stupid, I will deal with them.

We have had a few random spammers lately, generally from Egypt or Morocco. If you see someone posting "Thanks for this post" or something similar, please let me know. I will ban them on sight.

The trade matcher and price guides and what-not have not been updated. I am not able to do that and I don't know what the plans are.

MOTL is not for sale as far as I know and efforts to purchase it, while valiant, are most likely futile.

I will keep an eye on the Bad Trader Alerts forum and handle things as best I can, but really, all we've ever been able to do is ban people and list them as Confirmed Bad Traders. It's not like I can force someone to give you back your cards/cash.

I don't know what the future holds for MOTL. Back up your trade lists and your references.

MOTL has been a great place, and I have enjoyed it immensely. Thanks for a fun 13 years. Hopefully there will be more.

__________________
Selling all my cards. Want anything?


[Edited 2 times, lastly by Tha Gunslinga on September 23, 2015]

paragondave
Member
posted March 19, 2015 08:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
Wow, thanks for the update Ben, finally. Is he the R&B singer or is he a different Eddie Holman? Have you reached out to Eddie Holman personally? If so and to no avail then thanks for letting us know and I will discontinue my efforts to reach him. He's probably on tour anyway. What a waste.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by paragondave on March 19, 2015]
 
hilikuS
Member
posted March 19, 2015 08:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
It's dis guy, right?

https://www.wsgr.com/WSGR/DBIndex.aspx?SectionName=attorneys/BIOS/10858.htm

Last paragraph of the profile is the relevant part.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on March 19, 2015]

 
paragondave
Member
posted March 19, 2015 09:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
yeah, that's him.
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted March 19, 2015 09:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the post, such as it is. Still full of sadness.

Isn't there some specific way you all back up your refs or do you just select all, copy, paste it into a notepad file and save?

 
junichi
Moderator
posted March 19, 2015 11:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Even with proper updates, irreversible damage has already been done to the reputation of MOTL. The business model is also extremely outdated, and the demand for online barter trade is simply not as high as 10-15 years ago.

Unless MOTL changes its business model and is backed by one or multiple reputable dealer/retailer, I don't see how MOTL can revive to its glory days.

The only thing that has any sort of value is the name "MOTL" itself, and it's losing value fast as the site wither.

__________________
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

"The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ."
—Keldon soldier

Vegas10
Member
posted March 19, 2015 03:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Even with proper updates, irreversible damage has already been done to the reputation of MOTL. The business model is also extremely outdated, and the demand for online barter trade is simply not as high as 10-15 years ago.

Unless MOTL changes its business model and is backed by one or multiple reputable dealer/retailer, I don't see how MOTL can revive to its glory days.

The only thing that has any sort of value is the name "MOTL" itself, and it's losing value fast as the site wither.


I think there is still a lot of bartering online, just MOTL is no longer the main platform for it. You have Deckbox, Pucatrade, MTGsalvation, FB groups, etc.. it's more diversified than ever. other than that I pretty much agree with the rest.

 
paragondave
Member
posted March 20, 2015 12:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Even with proper updates, irreversible damage has already been done to the reputation of MOTL. The business model is also extremely outdated, and the demand for online barter trade is simply not as high as 10-15 years ago.

The success of other trade sites with terrible basis' is definitive proof of the ridiculousness of this statement.
Online trading is much more in demand today than it was 15 years ago. MOTL's model was and still is much better than anything else out there.

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Unless MOTL changes its business model and is backed by one or multiple reputable dealer/retailer, I don't see how MOTL can revive to its glory days.

MOTL's model is fine. The site just needs to be updated and have involved management. It proved that for years. The dropoff corresponds with a lack of updates to the site's search capabilities and again poor BTA rulings. With updates, more guides to successful trading and ripper avoidance techniques as well as moderator oversight, MOTL could be even better than it was during it's heyday. It will never be perfect (since humans will never be perfect) but if the ownership would relenquish it (sell it) to someone or some people who had that as the goal and not self enrichment, it would become reality. MOTL worked so well BECAUSE it was not predominantly profit driven. It was and still is essentially free, at least to it's users.

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
The only thing that has any sort of value is the name "MOTL" itself, and it's losing value fast as the site wither.

This, unfortunately, I agree with.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by paragondave on March 20, 2015]

 
stab107
Member
posted March 20, 2015 01:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stab107 Click Here to Email stab107 Send a private message to stab107 Click to send stab107 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
First, thanks for the update 'slinga. Like others here, I too am saddened by the degenerated state the site is in today.

The power and the draw of MOTL when I first joined was the price guide. It was the definitive value measurement tool when I first started trading/selling here. When that was "broken" and subsequently not fixed, it was the beginning of the end. I wish I could sit here and say, "fix that and all your problems will go away", but this is simply not true. As others have stated and/or alluded to, irreparable damage has been done to the site/community.

The structure for a great trading site/community is still in place. It just needs to be maintained to become successful again. Unfortunately, the people with the keys just seem not to care .

 
hilikuS
Member
posted March 20, 2015 05:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:

The power and the draw of MOTL when I first joined was the price guide. It was the definitive value measurement tool when I first started trading/selling here.


Agreed. I used it exclusively since I had started here up until it broke. It was an awesome tool.

 
Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
posted March 20, 2015 05:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I almost never used it, honestly. Ebay and ApathyHouse were better.

__________________
Selling all my cards. Want anything?

AEther Storm
Member
posted March 20, 2015 06:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AEther Storm Click Here to Email AEther Storm Send a private message to AEther Storm Click to send AEther Storm an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paragondave:
The success of other trade sites with terrible basis' is definitive proof of the ridiculousness of this statement.
Online trading is much more in demand today than it was 15 years ago. MOTL's model was and still is much better than anything else out there.

MOTL's model is fine. The site just needs to be updated and have involved management. It proved that for years. The dropoff corresponds with a lack of updates to the site's search capabilities and again poor BTA rulings. With updates, more guides to successful trading and ripper avoidance techniques as well as moderator oversight, MOTL could be even better than it was during it's heyday. It will never be perfect (since humans will never be perfect) but if the ownership would relenquish it (sell it) to someone or some people who had that as the goal and not self enrichment, it would become reality. MOTL worked so well BECAUSE it was not predominantly profit driven. It was and still is essentially free, at least to it's users.

This, unfortunately, I agree with.


I agree with everything here you said. I started trading internationally on MTGNews but after 2 rips in my first 3 trades I fled here, and it has been a safe haven ever since.

I too believe MOTL can be better than it once was, but like paragondave stated, it needs a lot of effort from people that are willing to put it in. I know there are members willing/able to help out with parts of it, I just hope that the site gets the chance it deserves.

quote:
Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
I almost never used it, honestly. Ebay and ApathyHouse were better.


Same here.
And thanks for the update Slinga, appreciate your time to inform us.

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

Lord Flasheart: Enter the man who has no underwear. Ask me why.
Lieutenant George: Why do you have no underwear, Lord Flash?
Lord Flasheart: Because the pants haven't been built yet that'll take the job on!

 
Tha Gunslinga
Moderator
posted March 20, 2015 06:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AEther Storm:
And thanks for the update Slinga, appreciate your time to inform us.

My pleasure. Wish I could help more.

LandDestroyer
Member
posted March 20, 2015 07:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tha Gunslinga:
My pleasure. Wish I could help more.

Ya, I'll add my thanks too. We know you're as frustrated as the rest of us if not more and appreciate you spending the time to post here. I just you hear back from the people in power at some point.

The price thing going away isn't as big a deal as it used to be, but the search engine no longer working is awful...if we could just get that fixed. Khannnnnnnnnn

 
junichi
Moderator
posted March 20, 2015 09:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paragondave:
The success of other trade sites with terrible basis' is definitive proof of the ridiculousness of this statement.

I am sorry my view of the situation is ridiculous to you. I would go into details of why relying on online barter trade as a focal point is a dead end, but hey, what do I know!? Right!?

__________________
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

"The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ."
—Keldon soldier

paragondave
Member
posted March 20, 2015 11:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
I am sorry my view of the situation is ridiculous to you. I would go into details of why relying on online barter trade as a focal point is a dead end, but hey, what do I know!? Right!?



yet for some reason, you continue to moderate a site dedicated to this dead end concept...

please, enlighten us all.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by paragondave on March 20, 2015]

 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted March 20, 2015 11:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
mommy and daddy please stop fighting. i'll be a good boy
 
junichi
Moderator
posted March 20, 2015 11:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paragondave:
yet for some reason, you continue to moderate a site dedicated to this dead end concept...

please, enlighten us all.


Because I am staying till the end!? Isn't this what most of us are doing right now?

__________________
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

"The enemy has been destroyed, sir. So have the forest, the city, your palace, your dog . . ."
—Keldon soldier

mm1983
Member
posted March 20, 2015 07:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
I think most of us would simply like to see an updated search engine for cards. It was the one thing that enabled more trades to be done. As it stands now the damage has been done but a decent search engine alone might actually bring back people who have left MOTL for other places and attract more new traders that would continue to use MOTL. One flaw with the old search engine was it was only card specific and never set specific. Having both would be a huge improvement for this site but understood if set specific search can't be done. Sets and special releases get released faster than they did 10 years ago so as a result makes it extremely hard to keep up with an up to date search engine.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by mm1983 on March 20, 2015]
 
Volcanon
Member
posted March 20, 2015 07:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mm1983:
I think most of us would simply like to see an updated search engine for cards. It was the one thing that enabled more trades to be done. As it stands now the damage has been done but a decent search engine alone might actually bring back people who have left MOTL for other places and attract more new traders that would continue to use MOTL. One flaw with the old search engine was it was only card specific and never set specific. Having both would be a huge improvement for this site but understood if set specific search can't be done. Sets and special releases get released faster than they did 10 years ago so as a result makes it extremely hard to keep up with an up to date search engine.

There's only four sets a year, which has been the same since Crapsnap, which was ages ago (still remember playing against that stupid dragon. Because red is supposed to get permanent "doesn't untap" amirite?)

It would be great to have all sorts of new things here. Not least a BTA with more teeth to it. "Value trading", the price of mail going way up in the last ten years and all the stealing really hit online trading even without the site falling apart. Ten years ago nobody demanded a waiver or insisted on $20 shipping for a $5 card. Online stores now are less terrible than in the past, and it's so much easier and often not any more expensive to buy from shops. Possibly because the default is Starcity prices instead of Scrye.

Heck even the ad banner doesn't go to a valid URL anymore.

 
mm1983
Member
posted March 21, 2015 08:18 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
There are still 4 sets a year yes but they are releasing too many special release products throughout a year too. Between duel decks, from the vault, planechase, commander, other reprints of cards in new sets, etc is enough to screw up any search engine if you are looking for set specific cards.
 
Volcanon
Member
posted March 21, 2015 06:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mm1983:
There are still 4 sets a year yes but they are releasing too many special release products throughout a year too. Between duel decks, from the vault, planechase, commander, other reprints of cards in new sets, etc is enough to screw up any search engine if you are looking for set specific cards.

Indeed.

Well ebay was always better anyway.

 
thewarden
Member
posted March 24, 2015 06:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thewarden Click Here to Email thewarden Send a private message to thewarden Click to send thewarden an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thewarden's Have/Want ListView thewarden's Have/Want List
Sad to See this I like this site I also use puca grade but like that I can haggle and barter here and actually talk to People which I can do on this site
 
flam flawless
Member
posted March 25, 2015 08:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for flam flawless Click Here to Email flam flawless Send a private message to flam flawless Click to send flam flawless an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
It would be great to have all sorts of new things here. Not least a BTA with more teeth to it. "Value trading", the price of mail going way up in the last ten years and all the stealing really hit online trading even without the site falling apart. Ten years ago nobody demanded a waiver or insisted on $20 shipping for a $5 card. Online stores now are less terrible than in the past, and it's so much easier and often not any more expensive to buy from shops. Possibly because the default is Starcity prices instead of Scrye.

Heck even the ad banner doesn't go to a valid URL anymore.


This, more of this and a side order of this.

I've been a member of this site for quite a long time. Sold out around 2002 (I had a pm for a trade/sale of 40 fbb duals I had listed for $1000 lol)
When I came back about a year or so back, it had a much different feel to it. Volcanon hit it on the head for me. It was one of the things that about drove me from listing any haves on here. That and shipping wasn't nowhere near as bad as it is now to other countries.
The shell this site has (and had) works. It's the lack of give a care from the ones that created it that is driving the dagger deeper. Without any possible corrective measures, it dies I believe

Thanks for the update on the status slinga. Keep us informed please if possible if something new comes to light

 
Child of Gaea
Member
posted March 27, 2015 03:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So, when the inevitable happens and either the domain name isn't renewed, or whatever box the site is hosted on goes down, where should we meet? It would be a shame to lose the community entirely even if it is a resemblance to senior citizens at McDonald's ...
 

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