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Author Topic:   Need a Ruling? come on in.. part 2.. the quest for answers.. hehe =)
Aya Brea
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posted June 03, 2000 01:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aya Brea   Click Here to Email Aya Brea     
My friend is playing an Oath of Druids, with no creatures in play. I have 2. He first comes across a Spirit of the Night and puts it into play. Next he does it again and gets a Bottle Gnomes. He then sacs it and gains 3 life. My question is, if he sacs the Gnomes, will he be able to search his library again for a creature, or does the Gnomes come into play and counts as the creature searched through his library???

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guenhwyvar
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posted June 03, 2000 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
He can only put 1 creature into play with Oath of Druids per turn. It makes the check at the beginning of the upkeep and lets you search for 1 creature, not 1 creature for each your opponent controls more than you.

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Raker
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posted June 03, 2000 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Raker   Click Here to Email Raker     
heres a quick question
if i have out a dingus staff and a token creature dies do i take damage?


coolio
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posted June 03, 2000 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
ah.. the little pop quiz..

1. how far does a card have to be away from the library to be considered drawn?

2. I have a river boa in play with a rancor on it.. I declare an intent to attack.. opponent responds by casting humble.. I let it resolve.. I then cast another rancor on it. (a. do I still get to attack?).. now whether I do get to attack or not.. (b. whats the power and toughness of the creature?)

3. I'm playing black and white.. opponent has something really big on his side.. he's declared and tapped attackers.. I have a sorceress queen.. which I use to to turn the creature to 0/2.. then I humble it.. I also had caltrops in play.. does the creature die?

4. You walk by in a mercadian/nemesis sealed deck PTQ.. you notice a player in the middle of the attack phase.. he is attacking with a blastoderm.. upon the defending player declaring blocking with a 1/1 the attacking player plays a tiger claws on blastoderm.. what do you do? (note there are more than one answer)

5. There is a protection from blue creature (no other creatures in play) on my opponent's side.. I have in play a thran lens.. replenish is resolving.. I have a treachery in my graveyard that could come out with the replenish.. does it? why and/or why not?

6. A player has 2 mountains and 2 rishadan ports in play.. he attempts to cast a pillage on his opponent's island. his opponent notices that he tapped 2 ports and a mountain instead of a port and 2 mountains.. you are called over to resolve the issue.. what needs to be done?

7. During Player A's attack phase.. Player B played a Cave-In..
its now been 2 turns later and they suddenly caught their mistake.. they called you over.. how would you resolve the issue?

(more to come as I think of them)

©

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Zadok001
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posted June 03, 2000 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zadok001   Click Here to Email Zadok001     
Re: Quiz
1. Inch? I'm not sure...

2. I believe that since your declaration of attack was responded to, you can hold off until a later time. And the Boa is a 2/1 after the Humble and new Rancor.

3. Why did you do both of those to one creature in the first place? But yes, it dies. It becomes a 0/1, and has 1 damage on it from attacking, so it dies SBE.

4. Me? Walk on by, I'm no judge. If I _was_, though, I'd correct the player by telling him Blastoderm is untargetable.

5. It comes into play from Replenish, and jumps on the creature. It can do this because it isn't targetting the creature w/ a spell or ability (Protection rules). Then static effects are applied, and it turns colorless. Only after that (I think) are SBEs checked, and since the Treachery is by then colorless, no illegal game state is found, and everything stays like it is.

6. Allow the player to tap the correct mana instead?

7. Too late to go back now, let the game continue as is. (Issue a warning?)

"The non-judge guy that never posts..."

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coolio
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posted June 03, 2000 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
oh.. I fergot to mention.. this is mostly for Kevin.. however.. those that want a crack at it.. u can try..

©

I'll post the answers later tonight.. or after kevin has had a crack at it..

*Tedman*
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posted June 03, 2000 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman*   Click Here to Email *Tedman*     
Well, I think I can handle most of these:

1) I have no idea
2) Well since he cast humble in response to your declaration of attack, you get to go back into your main phase. That means you can still attack and cast permanents. 2/1
3) What the other guy said
4) I'd make him have to choose another target, since Blasto can't be targetted in the firt place.
5) Too complicated.
6) He'll need to tap 1 more mana, and end up taking a mana burn unless he can use one of those generic manas.
7) Well, I'd make them go back to the attack, since the playing of the Cave-In obviously had a game-changing impact, which would have changed the game if seen as a Sorcery not an Instant.

I hope I'm right.

guenhwyvar
Member
posted June 04, 2000 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Raker:
K.24.6 - Token creatures cease to exist entirely if they ever leave play (to the hand, graveyard, removed from game, phased out, or wherever). Before ceasing to exist, the token will trigger any zone changing abilities that apply. [CompRules 99/04/23]

So the token will go to the graveyard, trigger the staff, then cease to exist. 2 damage for you.

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Member of G.A.B Blue Team
and Judge in training.


Orinn
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posted June 04, 2000 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orinn   Click Here to Email Orinn     
1) if any part of the card face is visible to the owner, a card is drawn even if it's still sitting on top of the library

2) yes, you can still attack, 4/1

3)the creature dies as soon as SBE are checked, because it is a 0/1 creature which has taken 1 damage

4)what's the enforcement level of PTQ? 4? Would be loss of current duel and single warning

5) yes, it comes into play colorless because of the static effect and targets the pro- blue creature

6) The player must pay the extra red mana ( Allowed by 6E rules) and either find a use for the colorless mana or take mana burn

7) if feasible, go back to when the cave-in was played and replay those 2 turns. If not feasible, then the play stands as it is.
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[This message has been edited by Orinn (edited 06-04-2000).]

guenhwyvar
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posted June 04, 2000 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Coolio: Well, here is my best shot at it. Well, ok, not best as it's 4 a.m. and I was just at a black metal concert.

1) In your hand.

2) a)Yes. B)0/1 during the attack as rancor is an enchant creature and can't be cast during the attack phase and it was done before damage was assigned. At the postcombat main phase you could cast rancor on it, making it a 2/1 trample until end of turn, at which point it would become a 4/1 trample when the humble wore off.

3) Depends if the humble is in response to the queen, thou I don't see why it should be . . .we'll play it as thou it weren't.
1. The creature, after being declared an attacker and tapped, would be dealt 1 damage by caltrops.
2. You activate the sorceress queen to make it a 0/2.
3. You then cast humble on it, making it a 0/1 creature.
4. At the end of the effect the creature has 1 toughness and 1 damage counter so it dies as a state based effect.
Note: If the humble had been cast in response to the queen it would have been a 0/2 and survived the phase.

4)Well, since it's a PTQ I'd probably issue a notice. Since while it's an easily made mistake, it's something you should be paying attention to in the Quals. The spell would never be played, since the target wasn't legal at time of declaration.

5)Treachery does not come into play, since it does not have a legal target to enchant. The thran lens makes no difference as cards in the graveyard or in resolution *i.e. treachery* are not considered permanents.
K.19.1 - A permanent is a card or token which is "in play".
K.12.3 - Local enchantment spells target the permanent they are going to enchant. This target choice is made when the spell is first played.

6) G.6.3 - The payment of a cost is unpreventable if you have the required resources.
I'd say that the player would be required to tap the second mountain, since he couldn't have not tapped it, and the colorless mana from the second port would be sitting in his mana pool unused.

7) If they could recreate the last 2 turns, I would have them do as such. If not, I would probably issue a double warning, being that it would have had a fairly large impact on game play.

Night all!

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Member of G.A.B Blue Team
and Judge in training.


The Illustrious Mr. X
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posted June 04, 2000 05:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Illustrious Mr. X   Click Here to Email The Illustrious Mr. X     
OK if I have a blood hound in play, can I tap my lands during my upkeep to manaburn myself to pump up the hound for an attack?


Goblin_Snowman
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posted June 04, 2000 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goblin_Snowman   Click Here to Email Goblin_Snowman     
is sacrificing an activated ability? Here is the situation. I am playing against a standard replenish deck. My opponent has an opalesence 2 parralax tides a seal of cleansing and a parralax wave return to play. I have a cursed totem in play. Can my opponent sac his seal of cleansing to destroy my totem?


coolio
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posted June 04, 2000 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
well here are the answers..

1. a card is considered drawn when its more than 1 card length away from the library.. if its already seen by the player.. thats another issue. certain cards make the top cards of library visible (field of dreams)

2. I have declared an INTENT to attack.. I have yet to enter the combat phase.. basically.. is like saying.. I pass priority to end my main phase and move into the combat phase.. he casted humble.. boa becomes a 0/1... I then cast rancor.. making it a 2/1... and yes.. I can now once again.. yield priority and attempt to move on into the combat phase.
(intent to attack and declaration of attack phase are a bit different)

3. (well I think ppl got this one easily..)

4. first and foremost.. a warning is issued for misrepresenting the card..
secondly.. you see if there is a legal target in play.. if there is.. you ask if the player would choose another legal target.. if not.. or there wasnt a legal target..
u then proceed to ask the following.. did the player tap his lands for the spell first.. or did he declare the spell onto the stack then tap the lands to pay for it.
scenario 1: tapped lands first then spell: well he's got 3 mana.. use it or burn.. tiger claws is put back in his/her hand
scenari 2: he declared spell onto stack first then tapped lands: put the claws back into his/her hand.. untap the lands
(btw.. for yer info.. PTQ's are REL <Rules Enforcement Level> 3)

5. this one was problematic.. what the end ruling was that Treachery needs to find a viable target in play before it comes into play to be able to enter play. (note this means if u replenish with opalesence.. you cant enchant enchantments u brought into play with the same replenish)
one of the affects if pro <quality> is that it cant be enchanted by enchantments with said <quality> thus.. treachery requires another target in play first to come back.

6. again.. as above with the blastoderm/tiger claws issue.. you need to ask which happened first.. the payment before the spell.. or the spell onto the stack first then payment was done. same outcomes.. 1 results in a burn.. the other doesnt. (pending on level of tournament... caution or warning may be issued for misrepresentation.)

7. its been 2 turns past.. you dont go back.. anything past more than 1 turn you dont turn back... a dbl warning is rather serious.. however if you meant a warning to each player.. both misrepresented Cave-In. thats about it..

©

Magic1264
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posted June 04, 2000 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Magic1264   Click Here to Email Magic1264     
Here is my dilema:
I have opposition with a horseshoe crab out. My opponent has a thornwind faries with a sigil of sleep on it. Anyway, He pokes me and returns my crab to my hand, but in response i tap it... But my friend says that i can't tap it in response because his tap is faster than mine. But i was saying that my tap went on the stack last, When it went out he his creature was tapped and he could not pay the activation cost. Please help me. Thank you.

Magic1264

the_rebel_king
unregistered
posted June 04, 2000 01:17 PM           
What happens when I play Betrayal on one of my opponents creatures and then I take control of it with a dominate? Will the betrayal still work or will it be discarded since I now control the creature? Here is the card betrayal:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Betrayal U
Play only on a creature an opponent controls.

If enchanted creature becomes tapped, draw a card.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could you E-mail me with the answer please.

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guenhwyvar
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posted June 04, 2000 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
the_rebel_king:

Betrayal is sacrificed if it is ever on one of your creatures. [D'Angelo 99/07/10]

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-Guenhwyvar
Member of G.A.B Blue Team
and Judge in training.


maro1
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posted June 04, 2000 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maro1   Click Here to Email maro1     
I need a couple of Rulings

Does Tangle Wire still create an effect if it's tapped?

Does Defense Grid still create an effect if it's tapped?

If I have a Tangle Wire and my opponent's turn comes up and he puts a 3rd counter on his Powder Keg and Sacrifices it to destroy the Tangle Wire, does he still have to tap some of his cards because of the Tangle Wire's ability being on the stack or does it not get to go to the stack?

dans135
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posted June 04, 2000 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dans135   Click Here to Email dans135     
If "search your library for a basic land...", can I get a dual land?

If "search your library for a forest...", can I get a dual land that "counts as a forest"?

guenhwyvar
Member
posted June 04, 2000 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Maro1: The only cards that don't create effects when tapped are the following: Howling Mine, Static Orb, Storage Matrix, and Winter Orb. The following artifacts have one ability that turns off but others that remain working: Voodoo Doll and Watchdog.


Yes, he still has to tap cards since tangle wires effect is a psuedospell which can't be removed by removing the tangle wire from play.

Dans135:
1) Dual lands are not basic lands.
2) They've all been errated to "search your library for a forest card. . ." so you actually need to find a card with the name forest.

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-Guenhwyvar
Member of G.A.B Blue Team
and Judge in training.


dans135
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posted June 04, 2000 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dans135   Click Here to Email dans135     
Yuck



Orinn
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posted June 05, 2000 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orinn   Click Here to Email Orinn     
Oh, well, I tried. Gotta study more if i want to pass the exam, those questions are rough. (I took it at the prerelease and failed with 62%)
Hey, coolio, if you fail the exam, how long must you wait before you can retest?

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coolio
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posted June 05, 2000 06:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
The Illustrious Mr. X: mana burn is isnt considered damage.. its loss of life.


Goblin_Snowman: sacrifice is indeed a activated ability.. anything before the colons ( : ) is the activation cost of the ability (after the colons)

Magic1264: tapping is part of the cost of using the ability of the faeries.. therefore, by the time you have a chance to respond, the faeries are already tapped. crab goes back to your hand.

Orinn: the only waiting period I know of is the 6 month period between level 3 and 4.. the test isnt easy.. I myself barely passed.. but then.. when I took the test when I came back after leaving during revised rules. was kinda rough

©

[This message has been edited by coolio (edited 06-05-2000).]

Alkiser
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posted June 05, 2000 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alkiser     
A couple of questions:
1)If my friend sacs a powerkeg, can I disenchant it in response?

2)Do all enchantments come into play at the same time with Replinsh (Im sure of this answer as yes)

specter
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posted June 05, 2000 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for specter   Click Here to Email specter     
Hi Coolio
How do come into play effects work with argothian wurm
effects trigger as it comes into play like with angelic chorus
LMK


guenhwyvar
Member
posted June 05, 2000 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for guenhwyvar     
Alkiser:

1) No
2) yes

__________________
-Guenhwyvar
Member of G.A.B Blue Team
and Judge in training.


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