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Author Topic:   Need a Ruling? come on in.. part 2.. the quest for answers.. hehe =)
coolio
Member
posted May 23, 2000 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
hey all.. yes this is a second rulings post... the first one was getting too many posts.. well anyways.. the old one will be in the signature.. as this new one will be too.. what I have said in the first post still applies.. there are questions that I will refuse to answer..

anyways.. perhaps I should stop rambling.. and start answering.. post away!

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Motio
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posted May 24, 2000 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Motio   Click Here to Email Motio     
What happens when I play a Deranged Hermit with Dual Nature (Prophecy Enchantment) in play?
Why can't I put an infinite number of tokens into play with Dual Nature, copying copies of copies of copies of ...? Or can I?


iakae
Member
posted May 24, 2000 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iakae   Click Here to Email iakae     
A creature coming into play and a creature being put into play are two different things. That's why you can't have infinite creatures off of Dual Nature.


inca911
Administrator
posted May 24, 2000 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for inca911   Click Here to Email inca911     
Please explain the basis to the following rule:

If there are two or more Crumbling Sanctuaries in play, only one card is removed per point of damage. I know this is true as I have played Tinker in the past, but was curious about the specific rule governing this situation. Conceptually, I've settled on the fact that one point of damage causes a card to be placed in the graveyard and that the one point of damage can only be run through a single Sanctuary but any further information would be appreciated.

Imagenyuss
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posted May 24, 2000 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Imagenyuss   Click Here to Email Imagenyuss     
If i use null brooch's ability and then i untap it with voltaic key, or if i have another one out, can i still use his ability even though i don't have any cards in my hands to discard?

__________________
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coolio
Member
posted May 24, 2000 08:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
Motio: well the spoiler is a spoiler.. and rumors are rumors.. and I for one.. and along with the rest of the judges who arent on the R&D dont get answers until the pre-release...

technically.. we arent even supposed discuss these matters publically.

as of now.. the spoiler isnt exact wording of a card.. and I wouldnt take it as anything final..

iakae: things that are put into play still comes into play... I can tell u that if u replenish this in with opalesence.. it'll create a dbl of itself.. and the dbl's ability will also trigger..

as for why it wont put infinite creatures into play.. its because if that happened.. it would not generate infinite creatures.. instead if would generate an infinite loop.. the ability triggering itself... and u'd get a draw.. you only do this once. much like how u'd check opalesence and humility's infinite looping checks.. u stop after 1 time around.. which is why humility will turn itself into a 1/1.

inca911 the answer to that one is easy..
CRUMBLING SANCTUARY
5
Artifact
For each 1 damage that would be dealt to a player, that player removes the top card of his or her library from the game instead.

its a replacement effect.. only one of them would resolve.. since its a replacement effect.. both would trigger.. however once the damage is prevented/replaced.. its considered never dealt...

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[This message has been edited by coolio (edited 05-24-2000).]

Fooath
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posted May 24, 2000 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath   Click Here to Email Fooath     
Yeah. Check out the text for Jolreal. XGtap. what is the X for?!


coolio
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posted May 24, 2000 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
I'm technically not allowed to comment on anything before the Prophecy FAQ is released..

I cant even verify the checklist. so was just said in today's judge listserv by the DCI Policy Administrator.

©

Tabb
unregistered
posted May 24, 2000 10:05 AM           
coolio,

I have been play testing a deck with my friends, where I use a lot of venom, and venomous breath.

The other day, he had four cards out, two of which could regenerate, and two that could tap and give another card shadow.

I attacked him with a Taunting Elf, since all four cards were untapped. I then played the venomous breath on the Taunting Elf, which should force them all to block, and then be destroyed. I then played a fog, in an attempt to save my taunting elf from taking damage, but still destroying the other cards.

He countered by claiming that he was tapping one of the cards that could give shadow (forgive me for not knowing the name, the card was black) which means that the card that he tapped didn't have to block. He gave the other card that could give out shadow to another creature, the shadow ability and claimed that since it was now a shadow, it didn't have to block. He then block and regenerated the other two cards, which left by attack useless.

I thought that the other cards would have to block first, before triggering their abilities, since they were eligible to block. That way, they tap and block at the same time.

He claimed that none of his cards were destroyed.

Thanks for the info,

Tabb

Kworb
Member
posted May 24, 2000 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
In respond to you attacking him he can do all that.
But why didn't he use his Dauthi Trapper (that's the card you were talking about) to give your elf shadow? Then he wouldn't have been able to block it either.


Magic1264
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posted May 24, 2000 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Magic1264   Click Here to Email Magic1264     
Here is another clone question... What happen if i clone a creature with echo. The text errata says that it just copys another card. So would i pay clones cost of 3U or do i pay the copied card's mana cost(which i can't).


coolio
Member
posted May 24, 2000 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for coolio   Click Here to Email coolio     
Tabb: here is a copy and paste out of the rules..

306. Combat Phase

306.1. The combat phase has five steps: beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat.

306.2. A creature is removed from combat if it stops being a creature or its controller changes. "Removed from combat" means the creature stops being an attacking, blocking, blocked, and/or unblocked creature. Once it's declared as an attacker or blocker, tapping or untapping a creature doesn't remove it from combat or prevent it from dealing combat damage. Neither does playing a spell or ability that, if played earlier, would have prevented it from attacking or blocking.

307. Beginning of Combat Step

307.1. After triggered abilities (if any) are added to the stack, the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities when the step begins.

308. Declare Attackers Step

308.1. The active player declares which, if any, creatures he or she controls are attacking. Tapped creatures (even those that can attack without tapping), Walls, creatures that the active player didn't control continuously since the beginning of the turn, and noncreature permanents can't be declared as attackers. This declaration is simultaneous, not sequential, and doesn't go on the stack. Any triggered ability generated during this action waits until a player receives priority.

308.2. The active player determines whether the attack is legal. (See section 5, "Additional Combat Rules.") If it is, he or she pays all required costs. Tapping is a cost to attack for all creatures unless otherwise specified; other costs and/or restrictions may also apply. (See rule 409.1f.) The active player may play mana abilities at this time only if an attack cost includes a mana payment.

308.3. If the proposed attack isn't legal or the active player can't pay all required costs, all actions described in rules 308.1 and 308.2 are canceled. Then the active player redeclares attacking creatures. (See rule 422, "Handling Illegal Actions.")

308.4. If no creatures are declared as attackers, the game proceeds directly to the end of combat step, skipping the remainder of the declare attackers step and the intervening steps.

308.5. A creature becomes an attacking creature when declared as part of a legal attack and all attack costs have been paid. It remains an attacking creature until it's removed from combat or the combat phase ends.

308.6. After a legal attack has been declared and all required costs paid, the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

309. Declare Blockers Step

309.1. The defending player declares which, if any, creatures he or she controls are blocking and which attacking creature each one blocks. Tapped creatures and noncreature permanents can't be declared as blockers. Each creature may block only one attacking creature, though any number of creatures may block the same attacking creature. (Note that blocking doesn't cause a creature to tap.) This declaration is simultaneous, not sequential, and doesn't go on the stack. Any triggered ability generated during this action waits until a player receives priority.

309.2. The defending player determines whether the block is legal. (See section 5, "Additional Combat Rules.") If it is, he or she pays all required costs. A player may play mana abilities at this time only if a blocking cost includes a mana payment.

309.2a. If the proposed block isn't legal or the defending player can't pay all required costs, all actions described in rules 309.1 and 309.2 are canceled. Then the defending player redeclares blocking creatures. (See rule 422, "Handling Illegal Actions.")

309.3. A creature becomes a blocking creature when declared as part of a legal block and all block costs have been paid. An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as blockers against it becomes a blocked creature; one with no blockers becomes an unblocked creature. The creature's status remains unchanged until the creature is removed from combat or the combat phase ends.

309.4. Once a creature has been declared as a blocker, playing a spell or ability that removes it from combat doesn't "unblock" creatures it was blocking.

309.5. After all legal blocks have been declared and all required costs paid, the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

310. Combat Damage Step

310.1. First the active player announces how each attacking creature will assign its combat damage. Then the defending player announces how each blocking creature will assign its combat damage. (See also rule 502.2, "First Strike.") A player may divide a creature's combat damage as he or she chooses among the legal recipients. Dividing combat damage is subject to the following restrictions:

310.1a Each attacking creature and each blocking creature will assign combat damage equal to its power.

310.1b An unblocked creature will assign all its combat damage to the defending player.

310.1c A blocked creature will assign combat damage, divided as its controller chooses, to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it will assign no combat damage.

310.1d A blocking creature will assign combat damage, divided as its controller chooses, to the attacking creatures it's blocking. If it isn't currently blocking any creatures (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it will assign no combat damage.

310.2. All announcements of combat damage go on the stack as a single entry. Then the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

310.3. Assigning combat damage isn't a spell or ability, so it can't be countered.

310.4. When the combat damage resolves, it's dealt as originally assigned. This happens even if the creature dealing damage is no longer in play or has its power changed or if the creature receiving damage has left combat. (Note that the source of the damage is the creature as it currently exists, or as it most recently existed if it is no longer in play.) If a creature that was supposed to receive damage is no longer in play, the damage assigned to it isn't dealt.

311. End of Combat Step

311.1. All "at end of combat" abilities trigger and go on the stack. (See rule 404, "Triggered Abilities.") Then the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

that is the combat phase... at any time before declare blockers when he gets priority.. he can do anything u described..
next time.. wait until he declares blockers..

Magic1264:

clone now reads: Text(RV+errata): */*. ; ~this~ comes into play as a copy of target creature. [Oracle 99/09/03]

E.4.4 - A copy card does not keep any of its own characteristics (see Rule K.6) unless otherwise stated on the card.
[WotC Rules Team 98/03/31] This means it assumes the name, color, mana cost, and other characteristics.

u gotta pay the casting cost of the copied creature with echo.. meaning if u cloned a hermit.. u have to pay 3GG

©

Imagenyuss
Member
posted May 25, 2000 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Imagenyuss   Click Here to Email Imagenyuss     
If i use null brooch's ability and then i untap it with voltaic key, or if i have another one out, can i still use his ability even though i don't have any cards in my hands to discard?

If a card has something like XXR like on Orckish Squatters' ability do I have to tap 2 lands to produce 1 X or is the other way around or do I have to Tap 2 tands at a time to pruduce 2X's?

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Kworb
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posted May 25, 2000 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
The activation cost of Null Brooch is discarding your hand and tapping it...
So you can use it even you have no cards in your hand.

If you want X to be 1, you pay 11R, 3 mana. If you want X to be 2, you pay 22R, 5 mana.
Etc.


iakae
Member
posted May 25, 2000 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iakae   Click Here to Email iakae     
Hmm, I stand corrected about the coming into play and being put into play. Some of the wordings are a bit hard to keep straight.

Of course, I'm not actually wrong about that until Saturday, when the gag order is lifted from the judges. And what IS up with that X in front of Jolrael's ability cost, anyway?

Kworb
Member
posted May 25, 2000 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
iakae, he said he isn't going to talk about prophecy because it's not official yet

Well, I think Jolrael will have XXG as his activation cost, where X is equal to the power and toughness of the lands

OR, XG, where X is the number of lands, and they all become 3/3

Fooath
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posted May 25, 2000 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath   Click Here to Email Fooath     
I think it is X lands.


Kworb
Member
posted May 25, 2000 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
Yeah, after I re-read my post, I thought the second suggestion was more likely to be right


Tourach
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posted May 25, 2000 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tourach   Click Here to Email Tourach     
ok, say i use verdant touch on my opponents forest, making it a creature. could i then use eradicate on it and remove all copies of the card from his library, hand... etc...?

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Kworb
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posted May 25, 2000 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
Tourach: Yep! Cool huh


Trademark
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posted May 25, 2000 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Trademark   Click Here to Email Trademark     
Note about Jolrael's Ability Cost

From what I hear they used "X" in the spoiler because they are unsure of the exact casting cost; all they know is that it will have at least green in it. (Thus XG)

Kworb
Member
posted May 25, 2000 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb   Click Here to Email Kworb     
Ow...
I like the X = number of lands idea better
I don't like seeing 12 lands become 3/3 creatures


witchy
unregistered
posted May 25, 2000 06:35 PM           
can i misdirect a counterspell to counter itself ?

what happens then ?

what if the counterspell is a arcane
do i draw 3 cards if i counter itself ?


Rosseroo
Member
posted May 25, 2000 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rosseroo   Click Here to Email Rosseroo     
I'm sure this has been asked before, but i need to know:
I have lin sivvi out. He playes parallax wave. he removes my sivvi. He plays sivvi. I kill it, in response he removes his sivvi with the wave. So we've got 2 sivvi's sitting removed from the game. What happens when the wave dies?


iakae
Member
posted May 25, 2000 08:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for iakae   Click Here to Email iakae     
It was a joke, Kworb.

As for the Lin Sivvi/Parallax Wave question, the controller of the wave determines what order the permanents come back into play. So if he's smart, he'll have his Lin Sivvi come into play first.

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