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Author Topic:   Rulings Thread Part 48 (ALL rules-related questions go HERE!)
psrex
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posted July 05, 2011 10:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for psrex Click Here to Email psrex Send a private message to psrex Click to send psrex an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View psrex's Have/Want ListView psrex's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Ncromonitor:
You cannot stifle the ability that puts it into his hand at the end of his turn?

It's not a separate ability, so you can't stop just that part. Everything before the colon is the cost, and everything after it is the ability. If you stop the ability you stop everything, which includes removing the card from the top of the library.

 
caquaa
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posted July 05, 2011 03:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by psrex:
It's not a separate ability, so you can't stop just that part. Everything before the colon is the cost, and everything after it is the ability. If you stop the ability you stop everything, which includes removing the card from the top of the library.

Pay 1 life: Exile the top card of your library face down. Put that card into your hand at the beginning of your next end step.

that part that says "Put that card into your hand at the beginning of your next end step" is a delayed trigger caused by the ability. This can be stifled.

 
Meddling Pimp
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posted July 05, 2011 05:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Meddling Pimp Click Here to Email Meddling Pimp Send a private message to Meddling Pimp Click to send Meddling Pimp an Instant MessageVisit Meddling Pimp's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
Pay 1 life: Exile the top card of your library face down. Put that card into your hand at the beginning of your next end step.

that part that says "Put that card into your hand at the beginning of your next end step" is a delayed trigger caused by the ability. This can be stifled.


This. You can stifle the delayed trigger.

 
James_Hetfield2
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posted July 06, 2011 07:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View James_Hetfield2's Have/Want ListView James_Hetfield2's Have/Want List
If you opponent casts Dismember paying 1 and 4 life, can you use Mental Misstep to counter the Dismember?

I thought I did in MTGO, but now I can't seem too, but I was probably just mistaken.

 
joz
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posted July 06, 2011 07:24 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for joz Click Here to Email joz Send a private message to joz Click to send joz an Instant MessageVisit joz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by James_Hetfield2:
If you opponent casts Dismember paying 1 and 4 life, can you use Mental Misstep to counter the Dismember?

I thought I did in MTGO, but now I can't seem too, but I was probably just mistaken.


No, you can not. No matter how you pay for Dismember, its converted mana cost is still 3.

Each phyrexian mana symbol has the converted mana cost of its non-phyrexian half. In thiscase, Dismember is still a 1BB spell, even if you only pay 1 mana and 4 life.

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Kyzneg
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posted July 06, 2011 08:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
There are two separate triggered abilities on the Hatchling cycle that remove counters (notice they're on separate lines and both end with a period). So when you cast a spell that's both green and black, each ability will "see" its trigger condition being met and trigger. So two counters will be removed.
 
oneofchaos
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posted July 07, 2011 09:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Phyrexian Metamorph is copying an eldrazi (it comes into play copies the eldrazi). Now Legend rule kills both and my eldrazi shuffles itself with graveyard back into my deck. Will the metamorph do that also?
 
joz
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posted July 07, 2011 09:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for joz Click Here to Email joz Send a private message to joz Click to send joz an Instant MessageVisit joz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Phyrexian Metamorph is copying an eldrazi (it comes into play copies the eldrazi). Now Legend rule kills both and my eldrazi shuffles itself with graveyard back into my deck. Will the metamorph do that also?

Yes, it will.

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Joz - can we ban Leshrac for not fixing the Chrome PM issue?

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oneofchaos
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posted July 07, 2011 05:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Man two questions in such a short time I am out of luck.

So I am working on a scion of ur dragon EDH deck. I want to somehow bin a skyithx and pump for the ability to poison kill. I figure Moltensteel dragon does the trick so why not. Is there any way to make it work?

 
TimeBeing
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posted July 07, 2011 05:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Man two questions in such a short time I am out of luck.

So I am working on a scion of ur dragon EDH deck. I want to somehow bin a skyithx and pump for the ability to poison kill. I figure Moltensteel dragon does the trick so why not. Is there any way to make it work?


nope.

"When Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of another Dragon, it loses its copy ability for the rest of the turn."

 
mattw
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posted July 07, 2011 05:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mattw Click Here to Email mattw Send a private message to mattw Click to send mattw an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mattw's Have/Want ListView mattw's Have/Want List
just curious, if a player has no cards in hand i can still target them with Karn's first ability right? Man i feel silly for asking this.
 
TimeBeing
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posted July 07, 2011 05:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mattw:
just curious, if a player has no cards in hand i can still target them with Karn's first ability right? Man i feel silly for asking this.

+4: Target player exiles a card from his or her hand.

yes the only target needed is a player.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by TimeBeing on July 07, 2011]

 
oneofchaos
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posted July 07, 2011 08:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TimeBeing:
nope.

"When Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of another Dragon, it loses its copy ability for the rest of the turn."


Couldn't I bin like the moltensteel activate it x times...with that on the stack search for skithyx?

 
Kyzneg
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posted July 07, 2011 08:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kyzneg Click Here to Email Kyzneg Send a private message to Kyzneg Click to send Kyzneg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Couldn't I bin like the moltensteel activate it x times...with that on the stack search for skithyx?

Nope, in order for you to be able to pump your Scion with Moltensteel's ability, it has to have already copied Moltensteel Dragon, at which point Scion no longer has the ability to tutor up Skithiryx to copy it. If you want the poison kill with Scion, you're going to either need to copy Skithiryx and pump it another way, or copy a dragon that can pump and find another way of giving it infect (Grafted Exoskeleton, Tainted Strike, etc.)

Edit:
Actually, you might be able to do it, what you would need to do is stack the copy ability of Scion of the Ur-Dragon twice, when the first one resolves take Moltensteel Dragon, and with the second copy ability still on the stack, activate the Moltensteel's ability 6 times, giving Scion-Moltensteel +6/+6. Then let the second copy ability resolve taking Skithryx. If I'm remembering my layering rules correctly, the copy ability won't remove or affect the +1/+1 effects.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kyzneg on July 07, 2011]

 
WestWycke
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posted July 08, 2011 11:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for WestWycke Click Here to Email WestWycke Send a private message to WestWycke Click to send WestWycke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Phyrexian Metamorph is copying an eldrazi (it comes into play copies the eldrazi). Now Legend rule kills both and my eldrazi shuffles itself with graveyard back into my deck. Will the metamorph do that also?


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Yes, it will.


Actually, the answer is - No, it won't.
There is a fine distinction between some of the zone-change triggers that causes that.

"Whenever this goes to the graveyard, ..." is shorthand for "Whenever this goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, ...". It is a leaves-the-battlefield trigger and it triggers from the battlefield and it triggers based on how the permanent looked when it was on the battlefield. So a Phyrexian Metamorph copying a Reveillark will trigger because the Metamorph was a Reveillark when it was last on the battlefield.

"Whenever this is put into the graveyard from anywhere" is an enters-the-graveyard trigger. It is not a leaves-the-battlefield trigger since it does not require the card/permanent to have come from the battlefield. As such, it triggers from the graveyard and it is based on what the card/permanent looks like in the graveyard. A Metamorph that enters the graveyard after copying an Eldrazi on the battlefield (which all have enter-the-graveyard triggers) will not trigger anything since it enters the graveyard as a Phyrexian Metamorph which has no triggers.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by WestWycke on July 08, 2011]

 
darius vitrosoo
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posted July 08, 2011 11:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for darius vitrosoo Click Here to Email darius vitrosoo Send a private message to darius vitrosoo Click to send darius vitrosoo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
sorry i know i am right here i think but my opponent swears he is correct so let me give you the board. he has spellskite (man this card has allot of questions) and a strider harness in play, he also has a purestell paladin and a mana myr in play. i use mindslaver on him and he allows it. i take his turn and he is at 28 life. can i have him commit suicide by targeting the mana myr with the harness then using spellskite's ability and restacking it over and over and over and over until he (me controlling him) pays 28 life?
 
coasterdude84
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posted July 08, 2011 12:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View coasterdude84's Trade Auction or SaleView coasterdude84's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by darius vitrosoo:
sorry i know i am right here i think but my opponent swears he is correct so let me give you the board. he has spellskite (man this card has allot of questions) and a strider harness in play, he also has a purestell paladin and a mana myr in play. i use mindslaver on him and he allows it. i take his turn and he is at 28 life. can i have him commit suicide by targeting the mana myr with the harness then using spellskite's ability and restacking it over and over and over and over until he (me controlling him) pays 28 life?

Sure, why not? Equip is a targeted ability, so you can redirected it to his Spellskite. Incidentally, you'd only have to pay to equip the myr once. You could target the same ability while on the stack as many times as you wanted.

EDIT: I should mention though, that this only works if he is at an even amount of life. At an odd number, when he is at 1 life, he does not have enough to pay the Spellskite's cost, so the self-killing would stop there.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by coasterdude84 on July 08, 2011]

 
darius vitrosoo
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posted July 08, 2011 12:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for darius vitrosoo Click Here to Email darius vitrosoo Send a private message to darius vitrosoo Click to send darius vitrosoo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
nice, i liked suicidial opponents. i swear though spellkite has cause so many arguments at my local drafting place.

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southparker2002
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posted July 08, 2011 12:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for southparker2002 Click Here to Email southparker2002 Send a private message to southparker2002 Click to send southparker2002 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View southparker2002's Have/Want ListView southparker2002's Have/Want List
moltensteel dragon is an artifact creature dragon with 4 colorless and 2 red new phyrexia mana to cast. is it still considered red or no?
 
darius vitrosoo
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posted July 08, 2011 12:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for darius vitrosoo Click Here to Email darius vitrosoo Send a private message to darius vitrosoo Click to send darius vitrosoo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
yes it is a red creature and a artifact aswell
 
Jazaray
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posted July 08, 2011 04:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jazaray Click Here to Email Jazaray Send a private message to Jazaray Click to send Jazaray an Instant MessageVisit Jazaray's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Conspiracy and changelings. Does it remove/replace the changeling subtype? Just wondering because my friend has that dragon that takes all dragons when it comes into play.


Thanks,
Jazaray

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oneofchaos
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posted July 08, 2011 04:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So I am a little confused with Scion answer. Any official input on that one?
 
Zakman86
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posted July 08, 2011 04:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zakman86 Click Here to Email Zakman86 Send a private message to Zakman86 Click to send Zakman86 an Instant MessageVisit Zakman86's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zakman86's Have/Want ListView Zakman86's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
Conspiracy and changelings. Does it remove/replace the changeling subtype? Just wondering because my friend has that dragon that takes all dragons when it comes into play.


Thanks,
Jazaray


Conspiracy changes it to only whatever type you choose for it. Changeling CDA is applied in Layer 4, as is Conspiracy; however, Changeling is applied first, as all Characteristic Defining Abilities are, and then overwritten by the Conspiracy.

 
Zakman86
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posted July 08, 2011 04:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zakman86 Click Here to Email Zakman86 Send a private message to Zakman86 Click to send Zakman86 an Instant MessageVisit Zakman86's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zakman86's Have/Want ListView Zakman86's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
So I am a little confused with Scion answer. Any official input on that one?

It's doable exactly how Kyzneg said.

1. Stack the Scion ability twice.
2. Let the first one resolve. Bin Moltensteel Dragon.
3. Activate the pump ability of Moltensteel.
4. Let the second ability resolve, binning Skithyrx.
5. Kill someone.

 
oneofchaos
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posted July 08, 2011 08:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zakman86:
It's doable exactly how Kyzneg said.

1. Stack the Scion ability twice.
2. Let the first one resolve. Bin Moltensteel Dragon.
3. Activate the pump ability of Moltensteel.
4. Let the second ability resolve, binning Skithyrx.
5. Kill someone.



Lol I said that
 

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